Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

SCIENCE, SOCIOLOGY, RELIGION => Spirituality => Topic started by: jemba on April 26, 2005, 12:03:52 PM



Title: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: jemba on April 26, 2005, 12:03:52 PM
One question everyone has asked themselves since they where wee little children

Is there a being or an angel who has fallen?

Lucifer  

Satan

His excellence


What ever you wish to call him is he alive is he amongst us within our realm.




Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: Jahmal on May 16, 2005, 03:09:56 AM
There is no devil.. no satan.. the evil is not someone.. the evil is in what we do.. people say that there is a hewen and hell, but is not true.. the different between the hall and hewen is that, that in the hell is no Jah..


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: Zion.i.bless on May 16, 2005, 04:15:35 AM
InI Trod Jah-Road WE ARE THE GODS. InI Trod Without Jah & WE ARE DEVILS.

everyting inna di universe is duality.


Title: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: jemba on May 18, 2005, 09:38:53 AM
Hotep

Zion.i.bless, jahmal


If there is no devil then where did the story of the fallen angel come from in the bible? Who was Jesus confronted by whilst he was in the desert fasting also the bible?

And also if the devil did not exist that would mean the bible is completely bogus and it would mean that there are no angels because he was a fallen angel after all.




Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: Oshun_Auset on May 18, 2005, 03:01:38 PM
Quote
Hotep

Zion.i.bless, jahmal


If there is no devil then where did the story of the fallen angel come from in the bible? Who was Jesus confronted by whilst he was in the desert fasting also the bible?

And also if the devil did not exist that would mean the bible is completely bogus and it would mean that there are no angels because he was a fallen angel after all.




So Jemba, are you a literalist X-tian too?


Title: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: jemba on May 18, 2005, 03:30:52 PM
Hotep sister

Oshun_auset


Itís a question if you or any one wishes to answer it?

I like the bible to bring an x-tian as you call them, to their senses you have to use the same tool that is disturbing them.


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: OlOrisa_Olokun on May 22, 2005, 11:24:51 AM
this question is supposed be in the mainstream religion room, not here. there is no devil in indigenous afrikan traditions. the question and the answer are mute.


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: preach on May 23, 2005, 01:37:22 AM
There is no devil in traditional afrikan traditions???


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: jemba on May 24, 2005, 02:59:12 AM
Hotep


In the bible it says that angels are eternal so if there is a devil and he is an angel

When things are restored as they where the devil who is supposed to be an angel

Will not be killed he will be dealt with but he will will still exist for ever because he is

Eternal unlike us.



Evil or negativity represents the devil saying there is no devil is like saying there is no

Bad or negative forces.

Where did the will to do negative things come from?



 


Title: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: jemba on May 25, 2005, 04:40:47 AM
Hotep



Nubians believe in invoking their ancestors the same as the Europeans believe in invoking their ancestors.

You keep your ancestors alive with chanting their names, thatís why Nubians name their children after members of the family.

Devil worshipers also have names which they call them selves after reading their bible or after initiation does this mean they also have ancestors on the other side.

If the devil does not exist why do people who worship or invoke his name and others who he commands change their names to names who are or where in the devils legion including some of our own ancestors.




Title: Re:
Post by: Omar on June 20, 2005, 12:18:47 AM
I believe there is a cheif evil spirit that tempts human beings and influences us to commit evil.

In Islam we call him Iblis or Shaytan.

Others call him Satan, Satanel, or the Devil.

There are probably a thousand different names for this adversary or tempter all around the world, but most people acknowledge that that being is real.


In Islam, we don't believe the devil actually makes people commit evil acts or does evil himself, he merely TEMPTS people and influences them into doing wrong.

Often times through substance abuse.

Alcohol isn't called "spirits" for nothing!


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: OlOrisa_Olokun on June 20, 2005, 10:44:53 AM
Quote
There is no devil in traditional afrikan traditions???


preach, sometimes you seem incredibly self absorbed. as if the only reality is your own. yes. Traditional Afrikan Traditions and Afrocentric people do not and should not buy into the concept of the Devil, which is the immature and underdeveloped attempt to describe imbalance and evil on Earth. We did fine without a concept of devil before meeting white people or arabs. We will continue to do fine.


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: preach on June 23, 2005, 12:57:55 AM
Thank you beloved. Perhaps I am self absorbed. I don't know if this is good or bad.
I do know that for every action there is an opposite or equal reaction. Perhaps I should describe the opposite of god/balance as something other than devil/imbalance. Pardon me. As I am typing, I am thinking back to your post and wondering if by the devil you mean an actual physical entity with the stereotypical horns, or using the idea of the devil as a copout or alibi.


Title: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: jemba on June 28, 2005, 11:14:17 AM
Hotep brothers and sisters

Whose image is this world or realm in, this world suppose to mirror nature or the source of all things the most high, but if we take a look around us the world is out of balance and we are all going towards catastrophe all human beings are destroying them selves and nature.

Why would human beings do this if we know that the end of the world would be the end of our existence within this realm, people do not burn their own houses down without a reason thatís if they havenít lost their minds or under influence.

 


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: MuddyRivers on September 24, 2005, 10:41:08 PM
There of course is an real devil.

African Traditional Religions acknowledge evil spirits at all levels. To say that they do not believe in the 'devil', per se, can only be an semantics argument.

They surely believe in evil spiritual forces that enter and take over humans.



Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: OlOrisa_Olokun on September 25, 2005, 08:52:55 AM
MuddyRivers, you're completely wrong. Afrikan spirituals do not believe in the Devil. Period.

There is NO Devil.


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: MuddyRivers on September 25, 2005, 11:34:39 PM
OlOrisa_Olurun,

This is why I say that it has to be an semantics argument. If I see those of ATR who believe that 'evil spirits' are bothering them and have various things and ceremonies to get rid of 'evil spirits'. Those 'evil spirits' are not the 'devil' per se, as we believe it?



Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: OlOrisa_Olokun on September 26, 2005, 11:48:07 PM
OlOrisa_Olurun,

This is why I say that it has to be an semantics argument. If I see those of ATR who believe that 'evil spirits' are bothering them and have various things and ceremonies to get rid of 'evil spirits'. Those 'evil spirits' are not the 'devil' per se, as we believe it?

no "evil spirits" as you call (but understand that's YOUR language, not ours) are not the same as the devil. they are SPECIFIC categories of energy, spirits - some totally composed of spirit,some formerly human that have not spiritual evolved or exist to test the spiritual resolve of humans. they are not cast outs of "Heaven", they have no conflicted relationship with God nor Man, they do not seek a day when they will reign over Earth, they do not nor will they ever rule Earth. They are simply one part of Yin and Yang, Hot & Cold, Up and Down, Expansion and Contraction, Black and White, Light and Dark - evil exists purely to provide a background for spiritual conditioning. Afrikans say "we wouldnt know a good day, unless there was a bad one."

Do not, I repeat -do not -seek to draw similiarities between traditional Afrikan spirituality and christianity - there are almost none. Even our definition of success, good, ethical, and right/wrong is different. Afrikan spirituality is a science. Christianity is a dogma. They are opposites, not kindred ideas.

This is not an issue of semantics. There is NO Devil. In the Orisa tradition we expressly teach this idea to one another. There is NO Devil. No singular or chief engineer of Evil. No Lucifer. Etc.

Remember you are in the INDIGENOUS spirituality forum. Mainstream religious philosophy is discussed elsewhere.


Title: Re: IS THERE A DEVIL
Post by: MuddyRivers on September 27, 2005, 07:27:40 AM
OlOrisa_Olokun,

Thank you. Evil Spirits are the not the Devil, in the language of indigenous religions or religionists?