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January 16, 2018, 05:52:53 PM

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25565 Posts in 9779 Topics by 980 Members Latest Member: - Roots Dawta Most online today: 72 (July 03, 2005, 11:25:30 PM)
+  Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum
|-+  GENERAL
| |-+  GENERAL FORUM (Moderators: Tyehimba, leslie, Makini, Zaynab, Nakandi, Leanna)
| | |-+  Romance, Dark-Skin Spaces and Personal Accountability
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Author Topic: Romance, Dark-Skin Spaces and Personal Accountability  (Read 2059 times)
MissJay
Janene
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Posts: 9


« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 12:23:05 AM »

MissJay,

Quote
I have intentionally imbued the term softness with some measure of ambiguity, because I wanted to gauge others' sociological imaginations as they reasoned with the issues on the table.

If this is an experience true and close to you and you actually want change, then it is rather odd that you would use this as an academic exercise. It goes against the very nature of the reasoning as it trivializes the real lived experiences of dark skinned people. If that was your true agenda, then I find it reeks of exploitation to advance a personal agenda.

However, if that is not the case then here is a link that I found and still find useful "It Takes Honesty To Reason" http://www.rootswomen.com/articles/It_Takes_Honesty_To_Reason.html


This is precisely how I reason and grapple with things that are close to me. What I have shared with this forum comes from the heart, yet your comment seems to suggest that there is a right way and a wrong way to reason about my own real and lived experiences as a dark-skinned woman. I'm afraid that's just how my brain works at the moment. If this offends your sensibilities, then it speaks more to my point of entry into conscious development and less to the idea that I am using this as an academic exercise.....If there are alternative ways to reason with others, then I would like to learn them. However, I am  feeling quite judged or prejudged, oddly enough, for being who I am at the moment. I just find it odd that you have jumped to the conclusions that you have, given that we do not know each other. Am I missing something?

And, thank you for the link.
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Nakandi
Moderator
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Posts: 495


« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2017, 01:25:34 AM »

MissJay,

I stand by my earlier statement.

You may be missing the fact that if we apply the definition you gave for “softness” then what you posted initially does not make sense.

I also agree with Leslie’s point about the need for private spaces for dark-skinned blacks to work out issues. I do not want to continue further with this as my intention is not about beating up or even appearing to beat up on a dark-skinned black sister or brother.

Take care.
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MissJay
Janene
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Posts: 9


« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2017, 02:01:30 AM »

MissJay,

I stand by my earlier statement.

You may be missing the fact that if we apply the definition you gave for “softness” then what you posted initially does not make sense.

I also agree with Leslie’s point about the need for private spaces for dark-skinned blacks to work out issues. I do not want to continue further with this as my intention is not about beating up or even appearing to beat up on a dark-skinned black sister or brother.

Take care.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and your interpretation of my opinion about softness defined. Thank you for attempting to be generous with your ideas about what I intended to communicate and share about my lived and deeply personal experiences with care and softness from my perspective. Miscommunication, perhaps on my part...

Do, take and exercise care, Nakandi.
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MissJay
Janene
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Posts: 9


« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2018, 08:14:50 AM »

It has taken me over six months to revisit this thread with words, offerings, that speak to personal accountability. I walked away from this exchange with a strong desire to spend a lot of time reflecting on the symbolic experience of this interaction, the self, the one that is so difficult to communicate because it often eludes intellectual statements. It is true, I came to the forum as an academic--a cognitive scientist to be precise. And, by that I simply mean that the place from which I was attempting to learn and reason back then was perhaps unwittingly nested in some dimension of what it means to reason like an academic. Unselfish reflection has since directed me to the belief that there is little room for such dimensions to be tapped in spaces like these; especially when all they appear to do, most certainly, is invite the ego. I can see this now as clearly as I am typing these words.

To be clear, it is my job to study the ego; I have to think about it, and set forth a philosophy for it every time I contribute to my discipline--which is every day. Therefore, it is my job to know what it is, what it is meant to accomplish and how it is likely to be conceptualized by others. So when my discussions with another forum member six months ago began to reveal my exchanges on this post in terms of ego, I rejected it because I could. After all, my theoretical and empirical knowledge on this topic was all the background I needed to provide me with the grounds to reject. Furthermore, if anyone was going to know when their ego had contributed to the conversation it would be me. The problem with this thinking, however, also revealed itself when this forum member also told me that I would need to unlearn a lot about what school had taught me. For example, school had taught me how to reason and grapple with ideas and concepts in a very limited way. Though useful, I have come to understand that reasoning and evaluating in this way invites a particular type of identity into conversations; one that incidentally taps the ego and all that the ego is designed to protect. Reflecting on this symbolic experience of the self really caused an internal struggle between my worlds--the academic one that had given me many a ways to think and reason about the world, and the one that I wished to deepen my learning and reasoning within through a deeper understanding what a test of my character could reveal to me. I think that this internal conflict is also present in my interactions and honest intentions for my initial post.

This internal struggle made me really uncomfortable and I wrestled with these ideas for a while....about 6 months to be exact. I went back and re-read what I posted along with the interactions that followed. I did this only when I believed that I was ready to receive what was said to me, and read what I had written, from a place that allowed me to let go of all of the things my ego was precisely designed to protect: my so called identity, including those cultivated by my academic experiences. Once I did that, I was able to receive the messages posted from a place that allowed me to evaluate the character of my words and what was being said...and not the characters themselves. It was then I began to see pieces of my ego in my defensiveness and discomfort, and where it caused me to retreat rather than to lean into the messages being offered. I can see where the consequences for those actions warranted a clear and valid reaction. It is clear that these women were taking their time and energy to share what they have learned with me. It is clear that my approach into receiving and working toward understanding the issues I was interested in reasoning about were in need of personal examination. And perhaps most meaningfully, this was not the space to attempt to work out issues that are better served in private spaces for dark-skinned blacks. I accept this responsibility and I submit my attempt to personally account for my actions to the judgment of all who read this.   
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Zaynab
Moderator
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Posts: 81


« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2018, 02:15:48 AM »

Greetings MissJay

It takes integrity to reason. This statement is uttered in many ways but the value of it is often overlooked or dismissed. When we are challenged to face hard truths, we often find discourses difficult as they can expose our egos, insecurities, fears, prejudices, beliefs, and values. What keeps us grounded (level-headed, reflective, rational, respectful, compassionate, and considerate) is integrity.
 
New information is not always easy to digest, but introspection is a good way to assess the value of one’s own position. I will share an anecdote. Years ago, I accompanied a friend to a public discussion and was confronted with a startling truth: “Unless one is willing to address his or her self, one should not rush to join or form groups.” This was an assault to my beliefs of co-operation and community, so I refused to accept it. I sat there stewing in my discontent. I thought that persons could and should come together to share in resources (skills, wealth and information). I felt that those present who championed the need for community and communal living raised some good points. Others who argued oppositely also brought forward important positions. I did not easily buy into what was being shared, but I listened. I respected the friend that invited me to the forum; therefore, I was not ready to dismiss outright what gave me pause. I decided after quite some time to instead search me because I thought there must be something that I was missing.
 
It is then it hit me. What was said was not irrational at all. That “ah ha” moment came at the precise time I confronted ME. I acknowledged to myself that I was not perfect and with my unaddressed imperfections I should not rush to join or form any group as it would lack proper foundation. My introspection allowed me to appreciate the depths of a position that contrasted with my earlier stance.
 
Having integrity means being able to acknowledge that sometimes, one does not possess all the answers. Even if there may be disagreement, honesty and constant self-examination can better ensure that what is being put on the table can be of positive benefit to all involved.
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