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25798 Posts in 9900 Topics by 982 Members Latest Member: - Ferguson Most online today: 109 (July 03, 2005, 11:25:30 PM)
+  Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum
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| | |-+  Dissapointed at Sizzla concert
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Author Topic: Dissapointed at Sizzla concert  (Read 13866 times)
Noah_The_African
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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2003, 07:45:09 PM »

Well I do not think that the fact that you are white therefore means that you can extrapolate your white experience to be the general rule of white experience in regard Afro-centric hip hop interest by whites. I think that market forces would reveal a any significant white purchase of conscious hip hop music, that would lead to an increase supply of it, for does not demand dictate supply? Thus, is it not true that if it was the general rule that whites listen to conscious hip hop, that the artist would thus be compelled to supply more of it, given that whites purchase 70% of hip hop music sales anyway? So, notwithstanding your explanation, it simply is not evidenced.

I would bet that even back in the days of the black power movement, that there were whites that sympathized with it. However, such sympathy, no matter how real, was likely an exception to the rule as the general rule was that most whites felt threatened by it. Again, my statement was not taken to imply absolutism, but rather, the general rule.

I do not comprehend the deeper question that you ponder, however.
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Yann
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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2003, 08:05:19 PM »

the deeper question that i have been getting from this reasoning, especially with reference to socially conscious hip hop is not so much whether or not a large number of whites listen to it and understand its message but why more urban BLACK youth do NOT. that is simple fact. no anecdotes of personal experience neccessary. what is marketed to them is simply not the more socially conscious liberating music. as a black woman who has always been a big hip hop fan i have seen the evidence that most of my peers would rather watch male mc's sing utter nonsense with half naked females as props than listen to someone with a deeper more important mesage.

i will add more on this later on when i have more time but i really needed to jump in here Smiley i think this is very imporatant question to ponder as it shows the alarming effects of not only corporate white involvement in marketing this music and the artistes but also the effect of brainwashing by this same media on back youth, who more than anyone else right now NEED positve reinforcement from black artists that sing about issues closest to them!

more later... keep the reasoning going! Two Thumbs
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Noah_The_African
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2003, 12:01:46 PM »

Yan, I do not think that we need to pick on black youth not supporting conscious hip hop. I think that all youth are into their hormonal stages of development where they are hyper fixated on sexuality. Increased levels of testosterone in males is related to aggression and hence the fixation on hard-core gangster lyrics. However, that being said, the reality is that the collective African American culture, following the conditioning of the dominant white culture, is into individualism and hedonistic pursuits.

Individualistic interest is often the nemesis of collective group interest and visa versa, however, both interest are a necessity for promoting a healthy society or culture. You cannot have a society where everyone is simply doing their own thing, unbound by social, cultural, spiritual or moral constraints. By the same token, you cannot have a society that so restricts and bounds individual freedom, which the repression leads to unhappiness and revolt. Consequently, a balance must be constantly maintained and right now American culture and African Americans in it, are out of balance, tilted towards individual hedonistic pursuits.

When you all say why are not African American youth not buying and listening to conscious music, I do not know what you proof is of this. Is it an absolute statement or is it a relative statement? If it is an absolute statement, then I disagree. If the proposition is a relative statement then relative to whom or what?  If the juxtaposition is relative to whites, again, there are far more whites in this nation than blacks. Five times more. So you need to talk percentages to really get a feel of what percentage of black youth are listening to conscious hip-hop and what percentage of white youth are. I have no problem making the conjecture that a much higher percentage of black youth listen to conscious hip hop than do white youth, notwithstanding any numerical dominance by whites.

This is not an issue of black youth not making choices of consciousness; it is AMERICA not making choices of consciousness, and African American youth are simply a microcosm of that phenomenon. Just look at the garbage that is on television today. Why does the viewing audience prefer the smut to the wholesome? It is the hedonistic, individualistic, materialistic, capitalistic direction of this nation that promotes such choices. Let us not just point the finger at out youth, for their socialization and acculturation is purely the result of emulation.
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Tian
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2003, 03:09:34 PM »

 Greetings,

A very interesting topic indeed! Thanks to all for sharing your experiences and analysis.

Noah, I went to a Burning Spear concert two months ago, and had a similar experience. I had expected some kind of a spiritual experience, as I very much appreci-love the Burning Spear's deep conscious reggae.

Again, most of the audience was white. The most important reason for this, I guess, is that he, like most Jamaican artists visiting Oslo now, played in a big mainstream music hall, where tickets are about 35 USD. This is simply unaffordable for the core reggae crowd, and especially blacks who tend to be relatively poor in my country as well. Sizzla also played here this summer, but I could not afford both concerts.

I was disappointed with the concert because many of his deeper songs based on the black experience of slavery and roots were not played. Also, both vocals and drums where mixed very low, so as to downplay the two things I love most about Burning Spear - his drumming and lyrics. To be fair, this became much better when he played the extras, which also included some more Afrocentric songs.

Although there are very few Rastas in Oslo, I had a very different experience five years ago, when I heard Anthony B at a small African club in this city, which is now closed down. At that show, there was a predominantly male black crowd (mixed with some white women, though), and the vibes were very good. If I remember correctly, the tickets were only about 10 USD.

Yes, in my experience whites are very uncomfortable with Afro-centrism. People I know often argue that it is reverse racism, and I have heard even Bob Marley being accused of being racist. Apparently, most white fans of Bob Marley try to turn him into a hippie promoting peace and love.

To the issue of conscious music, my impression is that it is largely unknown in my country. Concerning hip hop, most people do not perceive a difference between for instance Lauryn Hill's conscious lyrics and most rap and R'n'B lyrics playing on slackness and sex. Yes, people recognize Lauryn is a good singer with something on her mind, but then this is often dismissed with statements like "Look at how many records she's selling, she's just as commercial as any other". As I see the problem, most whites do not bother to listen to the lyrics at all, much less figure out what the message might be.

As far as I know, there is no conscious Rasta community in this city, although the symbolism of Rastafari is visible (mostly among blacks) at any reggae show.

As a conclusion, my experience from Norway confirms the observations in this reasoning.

By the way, check out MACKA B. His music is more rap than reggae, but he got very strong, spiritual and uplifting Rasta lyrics, very much straight to the point. He is based in London, and is published on the Mad Professor's company Ariwa.

Rastafari will never die! It will rise again for Iver and Iver!

Tian



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