Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

For years and years I have being seeing and reading about the million of children under 12 who are been recruited into government armed forces, paramilitaries, and civil militias in Africa. These child soldiers are neglected by the United Nations and the international community. I can't help but wonder what is your excuse to let millions of children being stigmatized, abused, starved and massacred while the Western world watch silently from a distance the shocking abuse against African children? Girls in particular are the most victimized due to rape and sexual abuse.

Black liberation movements in the Diaspora spend a lot of time blaming certain groups for the problems plaguing Black nations and Black communities, but WHY are they doing nothing when our children are being killed or sold into slavery and are being ruthlessly exploitated in our Motherland?

If you are like me watching in horror that nothing is being done other than talks, be involved yourself in helping out the many teenage and children less fortunate than you. You may say that you are too young or you are living in a Western society remote from Africa to act on, but those excuses are not valid. There is lot of things that you can do. For instance, if you work and don't really spend all the money that you make, send it to Africa so that parents or villages will not be forced to sell their children into slavery to armed groups to eat or pay their debts.

Quit sitting idle in your Western society and spend your time accusing others for not helping out. Sponsor a child from a third world country, preferably from Africa because this is a continent that is much neglected. It really doesn't cost that much. I do it, I urge you to do the same! You have no idea what an impact you will be making. You will be saving a child from hunger and slavery. You will possibly be helping a child to go to school, and this child may rise to become an important person in his country. Africa needs good leaders, in order to have good leaders we need to give African children compassion, respect and recognition. African children need our help to overcome their struggle. So, help improve the future of Africa.

If you don't have money, the least you can do is read articles written on the subject of the recruitment and ruthless use of children as soldiers in Africa. Then share the news with your friends and neighbors. They will probably manage to force politicians into action on this subject. The lives of a lot of good African children are depending on it.

We ordinary intelligent people can make a difference. That is nonsense thinking that we cannot. Let's get organized, do our grassroots work, and then we will see change. Often we have to fight and sacrifice for justice that is the Great Spirit's plan to still, cleanse and balance our restless and egotistic consciousness. That is action.

Bantu Kelani.

Child Soldiers in Africa

We have all heard of human rights abuses, which occur on African soil. Many wonder how it is that such things as Apartheid, the continuing genocide in Rwanda, Burundi and Uganda, and other such tragedies occur in Africa without anyone speaking out against it for so long. Or, how such voices crying out the pain of entire nations can so simply and casually be ignored or even muffled.

Much is due to fear and the rest is lack of interest. Many actually believe that Africa is a wasteland where there will never be peace. It also seems that Africa's children are doomed to live a different existence on this planet because in some simple minds, they aren't important enough to fight for. The fact that children are forced into labor instead of playing and going to school or that they are living in abject poverty, homeless due to AIDS, prostituting themselves to survive, or being abused, tortured or murdered for refusing to be child soldiers is acceptable. Especially as long as the problem is isolated to the African continent and doesn't affect "us and our children".

Globally, there are as many as 300,000 child soldiers currently serving in militaries or rebel forces, nearly all of them being held against their will. Many of these children are abducted at ages as young as 10 or 11 years old. Although they serve in different militaries or militias and some of the details of their experiences may change; we can rather easily describe their common experiences.

In far too many countries mothers are left powerless as soldiers enter their villages and simply knock on doors telling families to give over their children or be shot. Some rebel groups like the Lord's Resistance Army of Uganda even go to schools and snatch children from their classes. Other children are simply taken from the street never to be seen again by their families.

After capturing them, the soldiers take the children to training camps where they are immediately told that if they ever try to escape, not only will they be tortured and murdered; but so will members of their family and their village. This alone is usually enough to dissuade those children who might consider fleeing. The soldiers are sure to show their captives that they are no people to consider crossing.

Very often, children report having been forced to kill someone just after coming into the training camp. They recount their feeling of powerlessness and the horrible sensations, which filled them, and some even talk of already feeling detached from their bodies during the events. And they tell of the guilt, which filled them even though they were told clearly that anyone who refused to participate in the killings would also be tortured then murdered.

These young children realize quickly that if they want to survive, they must act as they are expected to and learn to detach their emotions from reality. They understand early that escape is not an option as they have heard the stories of others like them who wanted to escape and were murdered for trying. Or worse, of those who managed to make their way home and were either tracked down afterwards and made to kill their own family members before being hauled back into battle. And there is of course the case of those children who manage to escape and are simply rejected by their families or villages because of fear of acts of vengeance being taken upon the whole community.

Why is it that millions of people all over the world don't even know of their existence, of their suffering and of their pain? In Africa alone, there are at least 14 countries in which children carry M-16s and AK-47s instead of toys and schoolbooks. In these 14 African countries children are forced to spend their early years fighting wars, which are the causes of others.

For example, in the case of the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda is almost ENTIRELY comprised of children soldiers. And the leader of this group is a man who has been getting support in the form of arms and training camps from his neighbor to the north, Sudan (no surprise as Sudan too uses children to fight its wars). The leader of the LRA is known to all to be mentally instable. He wears women's dresses and claims to be possessed by an Italian missionary and a Chinese general has passed laws in the areas he rules such as forbidding bicycles. The few children soldiers interviewed by human rights organizations have spoken of people having had their feet amputated before being killed because they were found riding a bike!

When will we stop ignoring the cries of Africa's children as they beg us to help? How long will governments pretend not to know what is happening to our children, then act surprised when these same children are unable to build a future for themselves and their nations? Can we really be surprised that these same children learn to hate, find violence a solution to all things and feel completely abandoned by the rest of the world?

I challenge those in positions to force change to remember this: One day not only will these children who we are abandoning today be adults who continue the cycle; but, by leaving them to suffer alone we are allowing the future warmongers and terrorists of tomorrow to be trained. Isn't it in everyone's interest to instead allow them to attend school, grow up as all children have the right to and become the healthy, educated, innovative and peace-loving adults that Africa needs in order to rebuild itself?

MamaAfriKa.com

It's sad to see that no one ever seems to post about the suffering in Africa. Posters here spend a lot of time talking about insignificant subjects, but they hardly talk about the realities of the people of Africa. Where is the Afrocentricity spirit in that? It's a shame, but then again we can blame the long years of colonialism for that.

B.K

Most people talk about the things that immeditately effect their every day lives and existence. We need to be mindful of Afrika, this is true, but, there is so much hell going on in our own immediate communities that the problems just overshadow the panafrikan attention that we should pay to the  motherland.

This is a false argument you are giving here RASNUBIEN. I concede that the Black communities in America (I assume you are Black American) have a lot of issues, from often living in poor urban setting, to being victims of overt policies of racial profiling and aggressions. Black posters here spend a lot of time talking about how we are being targets of white institutional racism etc.. But, no one ever seems to post on the issue that on the continent of Africa millions of Black people are being slaughtered DAILY. At this moment, the countries of Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo are caught in the worst humanitarian disasters of the 21st century! The death toll death toll in most African countries is now 10 times higher than during the historical atrocities of European colonization! WHY no one ever seems to post empathetic posts about such issues? Where is the "Africanist" outrage for such atrocities as the ongoing genocide of the indigenous people in Sudan or the millions child victims exploited, sexually abused, starved and massacred  by multiple militiamen and even the United Nations troops supposedly sent to the stop their suffering all over Africa?

If "Africanist" Blacks in America and elsewhere in the Diaspora are really engaged in caring consciousness with regard to Africa and the people of Africa, WHY is it not the case when it comes to Sudan, the Democratic Republic of Congo or Rwanda?  In fact, when it comes to numerous other African conflicts? This is obviously drawing attention to the inconsistency of the so-called "Africanist" Blacks in the Diaspora who make no issue of humanitarian concern regarding the many ills and suffering of the people of Africa. Most of the "Afrocentric" Diaspora populationwho pretend to espouse Pan-Africanim truly are buffoons, fraud, demagogues and a complete failure when it comes to thinking psychologically and emotionally about Pan-African consciousness and Black African Nationalism! They are great to criticize White systems and institutions for their plight, but their abysmal performance in regards to the HORRIBLE conditions of people in Africa is insulting and a dire betrayal for native Africans such as myself.

I am so sick of these people claiming that the very essence of their movements or ideologies is AFRICAN, and acting INDIFFERENT when humanitarian tragedy is ongoing in Africa. They turn their back on Black Africans on the continent, but they have the nerve to call themselves Africanists or Pan-Africans! I do complain about their hypocrisy, because if the Diaspora Blacks want to use AFRICA-THE MOTHERLAND card when they go legitimate their social, religious, music and Art model and form of expressions, then I want them to be consistent. But, as the great majority of Black so-called "Africanist" movements in the Diaspora are financed and publicized by white establishments. So of course, these diluted movements and their members don't give a [censored] about humanitarian tragedy in Africa because there is no Black lobby in Africa that will fill the pockets of the scum running them.

Colonialism, oppression, racism and genocide against the Black race and many Black nations around the world are not going to simply disappear by themselves in the socio-political construct of White Supremacy. It takes huge COMPASSION bravery, determination, mission focus, and will to make a difference. And if Blacks who have the most power from the outside of Africa are not going to dialogue about the injustices, the psychological and physical mutilation that is an everyday occurrence in the lives of the people of Africa, then no constructive changes will ever take place in favor of the Black race. If Diaspora so-called "Afrocentric" people claims the central importance of the land of Africa historically and politically, then they have to want to be bothered with Africa and the people of Africa!

If a Black man or woman truly is disgusted with the suffering of Black people, and truly in favor of stopping it no matter what, this Black man or woman apply those beliefs and that outrage TO ALL NATIONS AND COMMUNITIES OF BLACK PEOPLE!

B.K

I DONT THINK MY OBSERVATION OF OUR PEOPLE IN AMERIKKKA IS A FALSE ARGUMENT. I TAKE IT FROM THE WAY YOU ARE TALKING YOU ARE NOT RESIDING IN THE UNITED SNAKES. SISTA I AM ON THE FRON LINES OF THE NEW BLACK POWER MOVEMENT IN THE U.S. AND LET ME TELL YOU, ITS ALL WE CAN DO JUST TO WAKE AND SHAKE THE MASSES TO ANY UNITED, CONSCIOUS ACTION, CONCERNING OUR OWN SITUATION, LEST LONE ON THE CONTINENT. BUT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THE THINGS THAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING THEN BY ALL MEANS DO SO, BUT DONT PUT ALL OF US DOWN. THERE ARE LOTS OF ISSUES AND  OUR WARRIORS ARE DOING WHAT THEY CAN WITH WHAT THEY HAVE TO WORK WITH.  ???

I am currently living in the United States, and I am well aware of the social, political and economic struggle American born Blacks are facing in this country.


It is easy for you to support the doctrine of Black power and African pride, but to dialogue or speak on the issues facing the people of Africa is difficult. Do you see the inconsistency?


You can't say you are working in the front lines of the new Black power movement if you hardly speak about the many problems Blacks face both in the US and abroad. All Black people are one people with one common enemy. Do you think that the Black liberation struggles in the U.S are the only one worth being recognized? Just as Black Americans are victims of U.S colonialism and oppression, so our brothers and sisters in Mother Africa are victims of not only U.S, but also European and Arab genocide and colonialism. For someone who is working in the front lines of the Black power movement you should know that UNION calls for efforts and sacrifice .


I wouldn't be putting you down as you say if I was not seeing, reading and hearing about so many Blacks so-called "Afrocentrists" from the Diaspora who hardly try to learn or dialogue on the issues facing the people of Africa. It crush me deeply but the reality is that the African Diaspora are unwilling to help the continent and peoples of Africa because there are no incentives, and also because of ignorance. The Black psyche does not believe in ideological Unity or international coalition period. That is our number one problem.

B.K

greetings sistren,

since i have been introduced to this board i have been reading your posts and as well as the informed words of others. please do not assume silence equates apathy or disagreement or disinterest. i can not and will not speak for others, however i know in myself to be committed to a gender balanced PanAfricanism.

it is true however that many people are highly desensitized to what is happening on the continent of Africa. this however is another symptom of white supremacy and western hegemony. as you are well aware the mainstream media controls the majority of African representations. thus Africa has become the bastion of that which is savage and backwards and violent. death, poverty, disease are equated with African culture and politics past and present. Black people of the Diaspora and on the continent struggle with self hatred, if they are aware of it at all and this lack fills the numbing void. therefore it is a difficult task to engage in balanced and critical discussion about the various African happenings and his/herstories and expect educated and balanced responses. after all popular culture is in fact popular culture as it is forced upon us. we are saturated by the Bill Cosby talk and what Beyonce was wearing and what Jay Z is doing next. not to mention a glaring America-centrism that African Americans fall victim to with even their best Afrocentric intentions teeming. most of us have been miseducated and colonized, and continue to be so, and so those of who are attempting to consciously rid ourselves and our communities of racist and sexist bias within and among us, have a long hard road to trod.

still, there are some us who are working, learning and growing. and there are those of us who at times remain quiet, as our throats are sore from the demands and protests and incantations we put forth earlier in the day. excersizes in internet banter may not always draw all us at all times. there many ways in which to speak truth to power. and while shaping our words, cultivating our projects and collecting our funds as stones to smash the systems of inequality and exploitation that create child soldiers and other cycles of violence and repression (that plague us worldwide!), is not an easy task, for some us justice for and in Africa will remain central and not marginal, as we understand that for our spirits, our people, and our children it is a matter of life or death.

Greetings everyone,

Erzulie,

I feel what you are saying and Kelani is well aware of the system and our "training" underneeth it's vicious mental grip....but....I feel the sister has a major point. You probably fall outside of this criticism.

RasNubian,

I, as well as many others have also posted issues on this board about home(Africa) and the struggles of our people there, and they do seem to get the fewest responses. I think this is particularly disheartening because we are on a sight where most people claim to not have the mental shackles on their mind. It would be different if it was the general public, but this site has too many keen minds on it to get such a large lack of response. I have the same beef the sister has with the so-called African centered community, especially in the states. Often times when at cultural events although ancient African spiritual practices and culture may be the main topic, the current situations in Africa and the struggles of her people living there are either not discussed, or when brought up(often times by me) people are completely ignorant of any goings on. Your assumption that she wasn't living in the states is a perfect example. The sister is part of our struggle here! If you are someone born on the continent who moves to the state you instantaniously become part of the struggle of Black people in the states because you face the same situations daily, because we are ONE PEOPLE. We must recognize as African people that home base...Africa....MUST be our priority. A lot of African centered people I know don't even deal with African people from the continent or the rest of the diaspora on a daily basis! Many still suffer from an us and them mentality...even though they should know better!  It is important for anyone who considers themselved African-centered to be up to date on current social, political, and every day life survival issues facing our global African family. If Africa is our home we must actively work towards it's betterment. Until Africa is strong we will not be strong as a people.

Kelani,

I feel and understand your frustration, as well as share in it. Please remember, a lot of the people that do not respond to your posts may be learning about the situations you post for the first time and therefore only feel comfortable with reading....also, some may be at a loss for words because they are not sure how to help....also, a lot of people are Afro-centrists and not Pan-Africanists. There is a major difference in the two...and this is coming from a former Afro-centrist turned Pan-Africanist. I see people who claim Pan-Africanism every day who aren't truly doing anything to organize or ideologically train the masses of our people, most aren't even part of a revolutionary organization. For anyone who is a Pan-Africanist, this is a glaring contradiction. These people use the term Pan-Africanism interchangeably with Afro-centrism... They are too completely different ideologies and most are unaware of this. What is really sad about the direction this thread is taking is that more time is being spent explaining the lack of response to the issues our brothers and sisters are dealing with on the continent, than adressing the horrific problem presented in the origional post....Child soldiers. The Pan-Africanist organization I am a member of has had presentations and geo-political studies on this, as well as the conflicts/genocides occuring in the Sudan and Congo. Hearing first hand some of the attrocities the youth have gone through from their mouths....My questions are...Do you see this as a symptom/bi-product of capitalism and neo-colonialism?...and....Wouldn't eliminating the source be the best way to curb these horrors? Also, how did you get involved in sponsoring a child? I would like more information on that please. Thanks.

Bantu Kelani-
Can you enlighten the InI as to what all InI can do to help these suffering children? InI have heard of the tragedies and suffering in Afrikka, but what can InI do from the US? When the I says to sponsor a child, is the money sent actually going to the children? i have read several articles accusing the dictatorships in charge of these countries of stealing the money sent overseas by these companies. So is the I sure that this money really gets to the children instead of a beaurocrat or dictator?

I agree with the I that it is important to acknowledge the suffering in Afrikka. Is it not equally important to strive to break the bonds of slavery in the US? (though i do overstand that there is a disproportiate amount of attention spent on the latter)

the I mentioned that organizing grassroots movements can change things. How can this be done? how can this be I-chieved? Is it possible to gather enough people together to really make a difference in this day and age? Especially when people are so self-centered and don't really care about what is happening in Afrikka or are unmotivated to fight for another when they themselves are struggling?

By the way, on http://children.care2.com/, there is a free click to help children in need. I click anytime i am online...i don't know how much it helps, but i do what i can.

Thank you sister Oshun-Auset for your thoughtful and unbiased analysis on the topic. Thank you also sisters Ezurlie and Ras Legacy for your input and concern. Indeed, we have to do something to help alleviate the suffering of our people. But, our number one problem is Indifference and Selfshiness!

Why so-called Afrocentric Africans on these message boards, and  many other "Black" sites I visit regurlarly, barely speak let alone READ posts about the abuse and the mass murder of the people of Africa? In Rwanda, Congo, Sudan, Ivory Coast, etc. millions of African Bantus die! But, basically  the so-called Afrocentric Africans n the West turn a blind eye to the barbaric atrocities against our people in Africa.  It's true and it's a shame to see such indifference especially from the "Afrocentric" Africans!! Many on here consider themselves "African", but they can't even relate to the ordeals of native Africans! For too long, I have seen pretty much all the Diaspora Africans doing psychologiacal damage to us by their lack of empathy and selfisness. I've been living in the US for 6 years and I have seen only a few of my fellow Africans brothers and sisters born Americans who really care about the continent of our ancestors. I'm not whining here. I am giving you a broader understanding of the native African perspective.

Indeed, most Black Africans form the continent, such as myself, feel that Blacks in the Diaspora "conscientizing of their African heritage" is meaningless unless it is linked up with noticeable thoughts, speeches and actions of total liberation of the African continent! Afrocentric Blacks in the Diaspora trace their origin in Africa they say, well prove it! Bother to support either materially or morally those you claimed to love. Make us know by your numerous speeches on Black websites, such as this one, and in real life that you care for the security, health, dignity and prosperity of the people of Africa! In 1961 Dr. Kwame NKwame said "Divided we are weak. United, Africa could become one of the greatest forces for good in the world"! I believe strongly and sincerely what Dr. Dr. Nkrumah said that with deep-rooted UNITY coupled with intense relationship with our ancestors, the Black African race, will emerge not as just another world bloc to show off its strength and wealth but as a Great Power whose greatness is indestructible because it is built not on envy and suspicion, nor won at the expense of others, but founded on humanism, humiliy, cooperation and higer Wisdom.  

The so-called Afrocentric whites ran away from "niggers" needs. They feign supporting us by identifying themselves as Africans before anybody or anything. They officially worship Black religions, and they even mate with Western "Negroid" Africans to breed multiracials offsprings. They claim these moves are meant to stop the racism, terrorism and cultural imiperialism of the U.S, Britain, France and other G8's countries who deny justice and fair treatment of the people of Africa and other places from Latin America to South Asia.  It's not extremely difficult to get so-called Afrocentric whites condomn the words and remarks of "pure" Black Nationalsits because we are simply ungrateful engouh to admit that they DO help us by producing, nourishing and promoting safe and moderate Black Movements and Negroes organizations that they control. Yes, rather than side with Black radicals to crush the violent system of the oppressor, in the name of "multi-racial brotherhood" or "rainbow love" they prefer continue the repression of Black Nationalist agenda along with subtely agreeing with the stiffening of injustice, oppression, bombing and lynchings of the African bantus.

What have Afrocentric whites have done to help elevate our communities? Absolutely nothing! Yet they refer themselves as "African"! Blacks in the Diaspora really need to get themselves out their systematic entrapments! Our people need to get rid of their dependency complex, up to a point where they feel inferior to them. In fact, it's because our people feel inferior that their laid back attitude is a doom for our entire race!! If Afrocentric Blacks in the Diaspora cannot relate to Black Africans on the continent, they just talk a good talk and materialism consumes them! It is not good for Black Africans to embrace the principles of Afrocentric whites or other white groups, because these people can only condemn what we are about. They are unable to seriously identify with us, so in what context will they take seriously our needs into consideration and help us? Having noticed this objective truth, I realize that it's only the Black controlled radicals organizations that can resist the injustice against our people, not the safe moderate and multiracial organizations controlled by whites.

I can share with you here that I am a member and cadre of 2 Black francophone Revolutionary organizations and supporter of the international organisation UNICEF that advocate human security and rights of children, and the public education on child soldiering and sexual exploitationuse of child soldiers worldwide. If you cannot (or are unwilling) to donate and join humanitarians or Black Revolutionary groups whose position and views corresponds with yours, help raise awareness of child soldiers. Be conscious of what's going on in the African Diaspora by reading international papers. Then, take time to share crucial information. Information sharing can be an effective force of mbilization and strategies to protect million Black Africans in the world. Participate in appeals to take action. Publicize in as many websites as you can. Ask Presidential and congressional candidates to strongly support JUSTICE for Black people! Demonstrate for the international Justice, freedom and Respect of our people. Work with your local group. Get involved in community, tutoring Black kids etc. Go to Africa with missions, friends or family. Traveling to Africa will help its struggling tourism industry. If you find that you really cannot make the trip because you fear the conditions there, still donate a small portion of your trip expense to an organization that you know support Africa.

Lastly, always be generous to our brothers and sisters who are in need or less favored than you. Do at least one good deed for a Black person wherever you are in this world. It could be to just say hello to them, make conversations or promote businesses or activities that contribute to our strength. It's our traditional Pan-Africanist mentality, figth, sacrifices and heroism that will gain us total freedom and independence globally, not a self-loating mindset, indifference, cowardice or selfhiness! I will not boasting here either but I succeed doing almost everyting I  say. If I succeed to do so, it's just because I have a deep love for my people and respect for humanity. That spirit is in all of us, and it's only that spirit that propells us to change the oppressive and racially prejudiced institutions and socities in this world.

B.K

What a crazy debate on where the emphasis should be, on Afrikans in America or Afrikans in Afrika. ( Alkebulan ) Any atrocity against any Afrikan anywhere is still an atrocity. There are countless numbers of groups in countless number of places all working on specific goals, specific to their region all for the betterment of our people. If I post something about an event in Chicago counter it with a story about Rwanda. Each one, teach one and get off your high white horse.
seen.

preach,

I'm not surprised to notice that you find it necessary to distort what I have said in this thread. Think what you want of me, but if you and the so-called Afrocentric persons think the injustice, the outrages and killings of Black Africans on the continent are as important as the oppression and the injustices of Black Americans, perhaps you would like to explain how come no ever seem to speak let alone read topics on African political problem and abuse on the continent? Except the management here, how many Black Afrocentric persons on this board see the necessity of posting copious ARTICLES about the ongoing degradation and slaughter of our people in the CONTINENT to learn more not just America or the West Indies? How many Black Afrocentric persons on this board comment or even READ them when they are posted? In the majority of so-called Afrocentric forums people keep their focus AWAY from the relevant issues but the most important things for them to sort out, is reasonings on white Afrocentrists, music, marijuana, Judeo-Christian theology and Scriptures, etc. These topics get the most read and the most replies. This indifference of so-called Diaspora Afrocentric people towards Africans on the continent justifies to a great extent the offense and hurt I feel as a native African.

B.K

Greetings Bantu Kelani,
Sometimes posts are meant to be read and don't need any further discussion. Perhaps when information is posted about an event in Afrika people read it and are informed about a particular incident that, as I said previously, needs no further discussion. Someone earlier even made the remark that if you are just beginning to learn about a subject you may or may not be equipped to discuss it. It is the task of someone supposedly more knowledgeable about the subject to continue to educate those of us who are not in the know. I personally don't post any articles, I post questions and ideas because I like to learn and share different opinions. I could easily forward millions of articles about Afrika; and would that make me any more or less concerned about any of my brethren? It almost seems as if this is less about the so-called lack of interest in Afrika, and more about how come no one reads my posts to feed my ego. Is this a game of I am more Afrocentric or more Pan-Afrikan based than you because I post more threads? Some topics that are considered abused may be new to some people or haven't been clarified. And new light shed on an old topic should be welcomed.
If you look carefully through the site you will notice that more times than not when an article is posted regardless of the subject there are few responses. Lastly what is wrong with commenting on what interests a person individually or what is relevant to them at a particular point in time? To paraphrase a comment I made earlier any atrocity made against any Afrikan anywhere is still an atrocity, and to add to that a victory for any afrikan is a victory for us all.
seen.
   

It is a shame that so-called Afrocentric people like you still claim to need information on the horrific oppression of Black Africans on the continent to make succint comments or analysis on such topics. What is happening in Africa did not just start yesterday or last month this has been going on for centuries! In the face of your shameful ignorance just say you don't give a damn of the killing of the indigenous people of Africa.


You are clumsily fabricative, and your assumption is deeply false! If you feel I am offended because my posts don't interest the general public on this forum that is your right of opinion. And since I have no interest in winning popularity contests, my only goal is to tell it like it is.

B.K

Preach,

If you go through this site, most articles posted about Africa or continental African issues don't have many READS...let alone posts...I'm talking about articles posted by many people, more than just Bantu Kelani, so I fail to see it as her "ego" speaking here. She is not just complaing about posts, but READS....Conversely, if you post something about a non-event (spirituality ect) or an event that happens in the States there will be a numerous amount of reads and posts. I see an inherent problem with this(as should any other person who claims that "any atrocity made against any Afrikan anywhere is still an atrocity"). As diaspora Africans we have to be realistic here. I know the majority of us know people who are all into African traditional culture and spirituality, but DON'T deal with people from the continent, and are ignorant of many current issues facing or happening on the continent. That is a fact, and a contradiction when claiming to be African centered. Attacking someone from the continent who is rightfully only observing and pointing out this tendancy/contradiction isn't going to make it stop. In other words, I fail to see how "shooting the messenger" is a possitive step in correcting this contradiction.

There is nothing wrong with criticism, we should accept it and learn from it...even welcome it. I will openly admit I fell into this category some years back(late teens/early twenties). I was an "Afro-centrist". I could tell you a whole bunch about ancient Africa and spirituality but couldn't even have a discussion on Mugabe let alone Nkrumah. I saw this flaw and changed it because I couldn't simultaneousely love my people while continuing to stay ignorant of our current plight globally.  I think that is all Kelani is criticizing, and I in turn have grown to criticize this in people also. If you don't fall into the category of someone who stays ignorant of African people's issues abroad, than there is no reason to be defensive about something that others that claim to be African centered are obviousely guilty of. We have to stop being defensive based on micro-national identities set up by our commen oppressor/exploiter.  The reason I say this is because I often see(and it may be or may not be the case here) that Africans born in the U.S. get defensive when African from the continent criticize us on "our" lack of interest or knowledge about the continent in general. The excuse often given is that we have struggles here too. But actually, people residing in the U.S. as a whole are somewhat ignorant of the goings on outside of this coutries borders. This is largely due to the corporate run media, but when we claim to be African-centered we must overcome this "what happens here is more important" tendancy that effects the rest of the populous of this country...We must rise above it, especially since we are supposed to be conscious. Otherwise we are being hypocrites.

Exactly, Oshun Auset! You are an intelligent young woman. I know you always recognize THE TRUTH!

Indeed, I believe every so-called Diaspora Afrocentric Africans have the responsibility to learn more, encourage and support Africans on the continent as much as they should because their power base are African nations. Diaspora Africans are stateless Africans located in North and South America, Britain, France and other Western countries. This group poses no threat to western powers because it is a racial underclass within the Imperialism system in all the western countries. So, there must have some kind of way the Diaspora so-called Afrocentric Africans build a relationship with their power base Africa, because at the international level the Black African nations comprise the largest body and the largest force of any continent. Out of their minds Black Afrocentric Americans today cannot turn their back on the struggle of Africans on the continent. Thus, they need to respect our people on the continent and hold them to a high level of concern so that we can become a better-unified people.

You've said well Sister. It baffles me how Black Americans in general fail to acknowledge or validate the most obvious problems of theirs, simply because their character are affected. I can't really fathom how we are going to solve our problems if we can't even realize they exist.

B.K

You have well stated the object of Pan-Africanism as compared to Afro-centrism...This realization of the global reality of our power base(the continent of Africa) is exactly why I converted from one ideology to the other. Land is the basis of a people's power. Us Africans in the diaspora must realize until Africa is strong we won't be strong. Until Africa is respected, we won't be respected...Therefore Africa must be primary! Micro-nationalism is what the enemy wants us to succumb to because it keeps us divided, and weak. We end up concetrating our efforts on where we have been scattered to in stolen lands, rather than the mother-land. While, simultaneousely our commen enemy sets up shop and exploits home/our power base...The very same base we are neglecting and encouraged to neglect by said enemy. Don't get me wrong, we should try to improve our circumstances wherever we find ourselves, but we should never loose sight of the bigger picture and objective.

Unfortunately when ones pay no attention to the issues facing Africa - and then the West decides to pay attention(i.e. Sudan) to forward an agenda(i.e. intervene when their interests are at stake) - many can get caught up in the propaganda that floods the mass media and thus the mass psyche.

The West will use a legitimate situation and exploit it to forward their goals and leave the scene once the ball is bouncing in their court. It is amazing how unwitting liberals get caught up in the game that they play. The big players are the ones funding non-profits that front on humanitarian causes many times.

The atrocities in areas of Africa are so brutal that when the media starts to pay attention the sheer impact of the stories and images are so strong that emotions can be exploited to justify any action that is fronted as humanitarian.

Can you suggest any LEGITIMATE organizations not engaged in missionary agendas or Western intrigue that $ can be sent to or a child sponsoring organization that one could get information about and get involved in?

One must be very cautious about save the children foundations.  For nearly half a century these mostly religious based orgs have been operating and the net result is......?  "Non profit" organizations are competing businesses that ride the poverty train often with very high overhead and employment opportunities for "experts" or other do gooders, with a small percentage of "benefit" reaching anyone.  They also promote a dependency culture.  The aid can be carrot and stick religious indocrination .   It's hard to know what to do.  suggestion is that capacity building partnerships tied to food aid are the leading standards for helping children and their families in Africa.  Maybe the term "help" isn't even correct, it tends to be patronizing.  

There are a -lot of foreign "social scientists" lawyers , economists and accountants making a good living off these orgs.  They try and grow their orgs, not capacity within country.  This has been going on for years without much change.  

Maybe the best thing we can do here in United "Snakes" and E.U.is what our victims around the world are waiting for, clean up our own act and engage in mutually respectfull partnerships for fair trade and cultural preservation.  But, there are small non government orgs starting up that are geared toward information sharing in fields such as agriculture, environmental conservatiøn, green community development and the like that are aiming to grow the capacity of client villages , towns and states, not growth for their own orgs.  It's a principal of consultancy that works at times for small business.

Throwing money at pyramid scheme charities has been such a failure, failure by design for many, one might suggest.   Check out what a non profit promises.  Look at their web page,  do they say specifically how your donation will be spent?   Are their articles of incorporation and statement of purpose listed on the web site for your review?  Who are their main funders?   Some orgs only have public donations as window dressing and never get that much support and are funded by shadowy foundations, millionares and billionares with alternate agendas.  

Research capacity building in Africa as opposed to charity.  Found your own Africa assistance orgs! Particularly in your own communities.  Find out what others are doing.   If a million African Americans donated 10 dollars each to provable benefit for, say, a well drilling utility district in Western Kenya instead øf spending 10 bucks a week on whatever luxury and use the same principal for internal community development (parks, urban farms {peri-urban agriculture concept founded in Africa], it could all come together in a sort of Pan African food security movement.

Chinese diaspora are a pretty good model for this.   But again, one must beware the pyramid scheme in all this!   No rushing, no big hurry, patient persistent organizing with physical communtiy work - work- work, on the ground, absent sloganeering and speechifying.  I think perhaps that is at least what some good people from Africa are interested in from us.   Mutual strength .   Plant trees.  I am not a big fan of Louis Farakhaan or Nation of Islam, but I noticed him saying many years ago, "our people" need to be growing their own food.  Domestic food agriculture is the true strength of the United "Snakes".

I hope this isn't taken as another shameless plug.......
P.7

I was asking Kelani about sponsoring a child is because I know she is from the continent and thought maybe she was sponsoring someone from her country or perhaps even village of origin directly or via a small grassroots organization.  I don't trust the "save/feed the Children" organizations that have been operating for years with little to know results, their missionary "work" can be detrimental the childrens minds as well as the fact they are often pyramid schemes of fronts for mutli-national coprorations and imperialism.

Ahhhhh. sorry, I guess I was lecturing a bit there.  More like anxious, it's just there is so much good work that can be going on.  the only thing about sponsoring individuals or even single villages is one can create an unfortunate situation within a greater community.  But , you've got to start somewhere.   There is a principal of barter pay back , where one or several who benefit agree through some instrument like a "momorandum of understanding" that they agree to help others awaiting similar investment assistance promoting expanding community benefit.   The problem is if it's a one time shot and no follow through, you've created the potential, within all of us for envy, and bad feelings.

This can't be done through the internet or virtually.  (lecturing again, I know), things have to check out.  I think YOU are smarter, more capable and could help to create more innovative solutions and partnerships than some dude with a bible and a bag of corn.  Get of the internet (lecturing again) and rouse your friends and family, stick your foot in some doors.   E-mail is retarding us , we'll be all hovered around our computers till the power goes out, and then what?  

You think by the volume of writing I do on this site I must be the world's biggest hypocrite.   But , off I go to embassies, ministries, campuses , town halls, farms, and on and on - stick that big red face through the door,  hey!   Who the heck is that guy? cautious then after a time.......real communication.  It's gotta happen.

The first and easiest thing the Diasporas can do is say "One must be very cautious about throwing money at pyramid scheme charities or foundations etc." This way they can find excuses to not contribute to help Black communities. We all know that, this is what happens all the time... However, you are right, by saying that we can't send money to the larger organizations all the time because it's only a rare few that really pave the way of the betterment of our people. Most of the time, they fail, because they are physically and financially supported by the racist, capitalist, colonial white ruling class who denies the right of Black people to organize independently (without white participation). I said it before and I will say it again. They support and fund Black organizations to condemns Black self-determination. Therefore, the effectiveness of the renaissance of Black self-defense and self-preservation will be based on the mass struggle of our people, new movements, new organizations and new leadership of Black radicals!  So, most of our complains can fit in, we should not accept to send money to the larger organizations all the time, but there are still countless of local hard working revolutionary organizations working to improve the desperate position of the mass of our people.  


The effective humanitarian and/or economic programs programs that will allow bringing security and prosperity to Black Africans on the continent must have several qualities. A Black African economic program not tied to the ideology and the political beliefs of A UNITED BLACK AFRICAN DIASPORA, RACE PRIDE, SELF-CONFIDENCE AND THE NEED FOR POLITICAL INDEPENDENCE will ultimately meet economic crisis and a low productivity. We must realize that the people are the real source of capital! Once our people awaken and respond to the rallying cry for Unity, they will collectively provide and support economic institutions that will strengthen the peoples of Africa and the Black race. We all know that the Jewish man always will help his brother. Israel is now a rich and very powerful country because it depends on its Diaspora in the US to survive. Without its Diaspora, it deems to fail. With its Diaspora, its struggles wouldn't have been dealt with adequately. Likewise, Black Africans ought to to stop to look down or try to bring down any brother or sister they could out of contented ignorance, egoism or jealousy. We have to break of this negative limiting thinking!  


Good idea! One thing I do is getting involved with my group of people. I joined organizations whose views correspond with mine and who are involved in Congolese communities and activities. I just don't stick with UNICEF. I will soon travel to Congo and I will help the local struggle there. But, do the majority of Black Americans even try to do that? These so-called Afrocentric Diasporas have talked so much. It's time to act in the smallest organizational neighborhood block or in national or international revolutionary organizations.

For a strong united African Diaspora that will stop conflicts by winning wars and imposing the respects of the natural human rights of Black African children, women and men worldwide we need to examine ourselves individually and identify with our past problems and take a stand to contribute to the Motherland and not take our frustration to mischief her and her peoples. We need to have the balls to try! Yes, Black Africans on the CONTINENT need a strong economic help from Blacks in America and other western countries, but Black Diasporas must first realize that they are one people and they need to accept the fact that they are one people, and they need to act as if they are one people. Until that is realized Black Africans will continue to be systematically oppressed and brutalized all over the world.

B.K

We as a people often create further unnecessary seperation from one another. As much as some won't admit it, most of this discussion was as childish as telling your mother that your sister has one more extra letter in her alphabet soup than you do. If I turned the tables would you agree that you Pan-Afrikanists focus more on Afrika than your brethren in america? Especially if you live in america. Would it then be considered wrong for you to neglect someone who is easily accessible and in dire, immediate need of assistance. If I am walking down the street and I encounter a homeless guy should I tell him that I can't buy him a meal because I have to send my money to Kenya? I can't overlook what is right in front of my eyes. If I help that homeless brother am I not helping Afrika? Sending money and joining organizations aint s%^@. The front lines is where the action is, and since I can't physically support me brethren in other areas because I don't have the physical means, I support them in spirit. I support them by making my every day actions positive and by not bowing down to bull#!!!. This energy travels miles, and unites with others for the ultimate good.
Oshun Auset made a wonderful comment in another thread, Communty based organizations are our only hope. I add to that, when we are properly equipped then we can come together with others. When whatever organization I belong to in Chicago becomes well equipped we can then join with others as a strong addition rather than just a small infantry filled with ambition or what I like to call I wish I had been a panther syndrome.  
uhuru

I would dissagree with you on this brother.
Since I am a Pan-Africanist I am taking this to be directed towards myself and I reject this criticism.(If I'm wrong please correct me). Pan-Africanism seems to be highly misunderstood. "Pan"
is associated with the concept of Panorama which means all African people everywhere. Africans in the U.S.(especially Afro-centrists) tend to limit their concentrations to spirituality or local issues within these borders, and sometimes they tend to be completely ignorant of, or what is evenn more insulting...disinterested in what is going on in the Mother land. That is the contradiction being criticized here. Noting more nothing less.

Since you mentioned the post where I stated community based organizations are the key...Why would you think Pan-Africanists are not involved locally with activism wherever we live? Since activism and organization is only affective from the micro-cosm to the macro-cosm...What logic would NOT being involved in local issues make? How would it be possible to orgnize our people globally if you don't deal with the local community of Africans and our daily struggles with injustice? You stated "joining an organization ain't s%^@".  How is that, when the only way we can change our current situation locally or abroad is through an organized/collective effort. Do you think we can go at it alone?  Do you think individual unorganized efforts against an organized enemy will work locally or abroad? The homeless problem in the U.S.(a bi-product of capitalism) can be delt with without organization? The Prison industrial complex(a bi-product of capitalism) can be dealt with without organization? Please explain your logic on this.

I am an activist, as are all of my Pan-African Cadres. When protesting social injustice(police brutality, WTO meetings, anti-war protests, the injustices of the prison industrial complex) in my local area I usually see only the brothers and sisters in political organizations or that have had exposure to Pan-African or a similar progressive political idological training. The same goes for local food drives ect. The afro-centrists are usually off talking about or meditating on spirituality somewhere hoping the energy travels ::)...Now don't get me wrong, I am a very spiritual person...but I use that spirituality to fuel our fight against injustice...we can't meditate ourselves out of oppression. Thought without action is dead. WePpan-Africanists) support our brothers and sisters in the struggle abroad by being aware of our situation in other places and organizing our people to work towards destroying the system that we are oppressed and exploited under globally. While we work towards curing the local injustices going on, we can never keep our minds off of the bigger picture. If we loose sight of the objective, we may do things that appear to benefit us locally, that once analyzed are actually harming our collective struggle.

I do agree with one thing you said..."We as a people often create further unnecessary seperation from one another."

By some people chosing to remain ignorant or disinterested in our struggles abroad, and especially on the continent, while simultaneousely claiming to be African-centered, and to choose to be offended when criticized on that behavior, instead of just correcting it, we as a people are creating further unnecessary seperation from one another. This glaring contradiction is not "as childish as telling your mother that your sister has one more extra letter in her alphabet soup than you do". It is a serious problem in our mentality and thwarts our collective efforts.

 standing somewhat on the outside, i can appreciate the merits of the last several posts & Kelani's comments to my post.  I can definitely appreciate the concerns of Preach.  The matter of money, taxation, international aid, "charity", priorities, not an easy matter to sort out.  

As mentioned, I think victims of European expansion (the USA is but an outpost of same) are waiting for us to clean up our act primarily , but not to forget mutually assured survival, which is really what this is all about.  Depending on circumstances, one person may be perfectly justified in being put off by charity.  Often, you've got to take care of business at home first before thinking about someone else's problems, otherwise you both go down together.

Personally, I detest charity.  Most international non profit organizations are scams to grow employment opportunities for an ever expanding population of academics and quasi bureoucrats coming out of elite colleges and government  downsizing plans.   They have nationalist agendas.  They produce parrallel governments within African countries that bribe, then disunite public policy into an ever more complicated mess of overlapping and redundant entities modelled on lawyer dominated gum flapping and law passing.  

That is why there has been so much wasted effort and bogus "programs" the last quarter century.   Some of it, I am afraid, is intentional.

  Mutual respect based on differences and appreciation of culture, is not the same as some "pan Africanism" theories I have heard.   Some people seem tø desire a counter, or equally powerfull racially based global hegemony to that which currently dominates.  This often sounds to me like globalism with a new dress on.

I would suggest down that road lies a repeat cycle ancient civilizations , indeed older than Kemet, Mesopotamia or China, have been down before leading to collapse and destruction.    

There are many champions of globalism from both the left and right.  The problem is they are controlled by the same thing.  

So i suppose I am disagreeing with myself form an ealier post regarding other diasporas.  For  People who live outside the US, it is hard to comprehend what we are doing here, despite all the blips bumps and horrendous miscairrages of justice.  Especially on the west coast here.  Culture evolves from a combination of influences.  japan and Britain, now considering themselves wholly individual and culturally distinct societies, are amalgamations øf earlier, "diasporas"  Growth is painfull.

We should leave others alone to do what they want in their yards, but we have grown dependent on each other and rank military imperialism in pursuit of booty in endless cycles of birth and death, where one is on top, eternally to be replaced by another, is hardly a world view  consistent with the majority of posts I've read on this site.  

I am sure you can all imagine where at on time, your ancestors considered mine barbarous and inferior, due to their own limited view øf history and its great cycles.....and now here we are again under different circumstances.  

Runnin on a bit now........P&