Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

GENERAL => Special Reasonings Archive => Topic started by: Ayinde on April 29, 2003, 07:48:20 PM

Title: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ayinde on April 29, 2003, 07:48:20 PM
Posted By: Nat Turner on the Rastafari Speaks Board (
Date: Tuesday, 29 April 2003, at 1:37 p.m.

A question in context: If whiteness is a diversified state of mind for all white people, can it ever really be changed or erased so that global supremacy (both conscious and unscious) no longer exists?

Can white supremacy be destroyed without destroying the white race?

If so how can it be done?

Other responses on the Rastafari Speaks Board (

I'll hold my comments until Whites show an interest in this reasoning.

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: John_Pancakes on April 30, 2003, 10:09:49 AM
I'll do my best with this one. First, I'm not sure I think this is a fair question. I'm not convinced that "whiteness is a diversified state of mind for all white people;" I think you will find significantly different states of mind amongst whites that do not mesh. For example, there are large differences amongst whites of different social strata - a white who grew up in East Dallas like myself will find virtually no common ground with a Boston Brahmin or the average French or European white.

I think much of what we are refering to here as "whiteness" is cultural. Race is genetic and cannot be changed; cultural attitudes and traits are absorbed and malleable. It's a difficult process for anyone to attempt to change their cultural conditioning, regardless of race or social standing. Plus, no one can totally change what they were raised to be despite their best intentions. On top of that, ALL people are tainted by sin.

I believe that ALL cultures have something to offer... I believe all cultures have faults and excesses as well. Much like a marriage where men and women, two species that are vastly different, join together to balance each other out and create a "perfect union," I think all of the world's cultures have much to learn and much to teach, regardless of whether the culture is white, black, or in between. (I realize this is utopian).

This is where Jah and the doctrine of grace comes in: we all fall short and it is up to us to nurture a spirit of repentance in order to be transformed by grace. That is the only way to create any sort of unity, "... a peace together, a peace apart." To make a large generalization, whether it is the colonial and arrogant attitude of the haves or the desperate angry attitude of the have nots, we all fall short. And that has nothing to do with race.

Sorry if this is insufficient reasoning, but it's what I have for now. Peace to you.

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ayinde on April 30, 2003, 03:35:11 PM
The point to this reasoning is that most Africans and other non-Whites feel that Whites deal with them with a superiority complex. Sometimes they become very patronizing which is still operating with a superiority complex.

Although Whites disagree on many things like all other people, this one 'character flaw' underlines their general conduct towards Blacks and all others who are considered non-Whites. (Few exceptions)

The real questions should be:

1) Is the perception about Whites having a superiority complex when dealing with non-Whites a correct one?

2) If so, can Whites change from this conduct?

3) If so, how can they change?

I personally feel if there is a breakthrough in this reasoning then it is good for future race relations. Given the fact that on these boards Blacks have been the most expressive on these issues, I think more Whites should put on the table their views on how this can be resolved. Then we can take the reasoning forward.

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: John_Pancakes on April 30, 2003, 03:59:47 PM
As a white person, I can honestly state that if I do approach other races or colors with a superiority complex, it is completely unintentional.

I see your point and I would agree: I'm not quite sure how to put it into words but it is somewhat akin to the "spiritual tourist" who continually looks for new yogis and gurus to patronize without really absorbing any insight... maybe a "cultural tourist." I see whites who patronize nonwhites for a sense of the exotic; people who listen to world music at home but doesn't know any black people.

The issue makes me wonder if I'm doing the same thing now by taking part in this message board. I hope not.

I need to ponder this more. Perhaps more examples could be given concerning this superiority complex.

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ayinde on April 30, 2003, 04:43:22 PM
It is true that often these are unconscious complexes born out of miseducation and habit. When I point it out it is because I hope others become aware of it and in so doing recognize the need to learn.

If people feel to engage a Rasta setting then it is understood that they must come as they are with all their faults. Pointing out the race, gender and superiority complex issues are about correcting perceptions and attitudes.

But are some people coming to the table to learn then help improve or are they participating with continuing ignorance hoping to change that which they do not understand.

Often people get involved without even a partial understanding of what Rastafari means and they condemn without first availing themselves of the relevant history.

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Princess Tracey on April 30, 2003, 08:23:37 PM
This issue comes to the table again and again...and most likely will continue to for quite some the feelings are quite raw and a subtle forms of mental slavery still exhist to this day!...though not quite as overt ..yet still alive and well in many a so-called "progressive mind."

I feel some people are finally begining to address some of these hard core issues through dialogues such as these..and questions, statements, and experiances, fly like sparks as it is indeed a very deep and highly charged emotional issue that has many layers beneath the surface.

My observations has been that for whites...the history of slavery is such an ugly hiddeous event in the history of the Americas ...that it is disassociated with as much as possible. .swept under the rug...looked over...with an uncomfortable "let's not talk about this" mentality...  It is painful to look at, and acknowledge what has been done to a whole nation of people that are a vital part of who we are today as a nation ..(and not just blacks...but for the sake of discussion will leave it here)..

"White priviledge" is something that a sister dropped some heavy knowledge on me awhile ago...and it wasn't until I became deeply involved with many a brother and sister, that I came to realize I had not the awareness to see many of these issues before...but had rather totally taken for granted many of the priviledges I had, to float freely through society as I pleased without a thought or care as to who might be waiting in the wings to harrass me...or question me...or give me some negative comment, or disdainful look, based solely  upon the color of my skin. It wasn't until I had started to attend some purely black events that I began to feel what many of my black brothers and sisters feel constantly in this society for the first time...being judged by the color of one's skin. It certainly gave me a new perspective and opened my eyes wide on a whole nother level.  

I began to see, that no matter where one goes...judgement will always you you you hispanic..native american...and especially nowadays..middle eastern...but something vital I learned, is that individual people are on different levels of many issues based upon their experiances and some blacks...I will never be able to connect with...their pain is too great...and all they would ever be able to see is my blonde hair, blue eyes, and white skin...a symbol that represents something that they cannot get beyond...yet to those willing to look beyond and within, and into the person...have I been able to forge some very deep and meaningful relationships to last a lifetime and many times over..these are my inner sanctom friends with whom I treasure a deep and loving relationship..respect and honesty are key..

My analysis, observations, and experiances of this very complex and deep rooted situation is to be willing to LOOK at the past and present with an open eye...and acknowledge the truth not assume that all knowledge of history is correct... as much of recorded history was built pon many lies and does not necessarily reflect nor represent the truth as it truly evolved although it does give some important information worth recognizing and validating..(dig deeper)

My advice is to get involved with people from all walks... different cultures.. different socio-economic levels..
be open.. BE WHO YOU ARE... do not come off as an echo of another culture... be honest... and be willing to question yourself as well as the person with whom you are sharing with... mutual respect goes a long way when extended sincerely.. talk.. question.. and most of all LISTEN... allow yourself to hear !

As a white skinned person the oppt. exhists to be the EXCEPTION to the rule... stand UP for who Jah create you / me to be... no need to camelionize yur skin.. or grovel on your knees... get up off the floor!  If the shoe don't fit.. DON"T WEAR IT!  Jah create you and all of wondrous beautiful creation for a reason to serve HIS purpose... culture being a part of that purpose. Accept who you are... love who you are... love others for who they are... live, learn, love, and grow from ALL things!

blessed much more

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 01, 2003, 03:49:44 AM

The race story in Brasil is a little different then in the U.S. . Here is not explicit, it's dissimulated.

Sometimes I feel that the superiority complex is really jsut a reflex of the inferiority complex that was forcedly indoctrinated by colonialism.

What I mean is that, if you don't act with superiority intentions, and you are a white middle (or higher) class one, people will find it strange and feel difficulty to believe in that at the first contact.

This has happened to me in two different situations recently. One was the Capoeira story that I already reasoned with you. The other was going to meet I girlfriends mother. She's black and from  the ghetto. They consider me a white one that lives in an apartment, with job, car and so her mother would be afraid I was just a playboy trying to use and abuse her treasure. But after meeting me she relaxed and I saw I am different from majority of people around.

Some people may be interpreted as beeing superior, when they are just naturally beeing themselves, without agreesive attitude, respecting the others, and this happens when people don't know each ohter and won't to seat and reason.

If the inferiority complex was forced by slavery and colonialism, it also has to be worked out.

How I see this is that white people like me (funny this, here I'm considered white(r), in Urope Arabic Brown) can help people transcend their inferiority complex by showing them how this exists and must be corrected and trancended. So I intent to use my education to desmistify certain topics by I attitude and I works.

Just to give an example: A black collegue was saying to me how I had a GOOD hair in his hair was BAD hair. I asked hiw what does that mean, good and bad hair, how can this possibly be? Every hair is good and was a gift of the almighty.
I said your beautiful man, you should love yourself more, uplift your mind and perception. You know you come from the oldest societies of this planet and you must have royal lineage in your blood.

Just I humble sight.

Did you check I photo gallery? I'm adding picturesd today :D

Blessed Reasoning,


Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: IanI on May 01, 2003, 08:00:12 AM
Greetings Irie Ones,

Two things me want to respond to here...
First: Ras Mandingo:

"How I see this is that white people like me... can help people transend their inferiority complex..."

Now, how should I put this?... Listen man... if you de considered "white", is truely not up to you to "show" a black one how to overcome inferiority complex due to the skin colour. This is taking IanI right to the same thing that always go on... the patronization of you darker skinned bredren. You may not see within youself the attitude of "patronization"... you may feel that you only want to "help"...
yet... if you were to delve deeper into you-self... you would find that the attitude that you de "know more" and can help the blackman from his pit of ignorance and inferiority is ingrained in you psyche.
Me no never want to see no white one come into the hills and show all the black bredren and sistren that them can "do better"... "feel better"... "act better"... if them only listen to what the whiteman have to tell them!
And me see it happen far to often!
White ones come sayin, "oh look at the poor black ones here! I can help them!" never for once realizing that them "poor black ones" actually have plenty to show THEM!!!
And far too often I no hear the white ones say, "oh, look how wonderful these people live! I hope I can be teached by them! Make me shut me mouth and LISTEN for a time!"
get me?

So when Ayinde asks the question about "can whites change from this conduct?"... I only see it happen pon the rarest of occasion.
It takes the white one long, long, long time and serious meditation to even begin to achieve this. And even then them must catch themselves at times falling back into the trap of the brainwashment. It is a thing that must be worked upon constantly...
and be realized as a "condition" that MUST be overcome! Continuously.

And so next me respond to this: warriorprincess:

"It wasn't until I started to attend some purely black events that I began to feel what many of my black brothers and sisters feel constantly in this society..."

Now here we have one that is working pon the problem. And not just by lookin for a black partner... but by lookin at the "other side' of her livity. In the caribean I see most white ones live in segregated communities and only go into market and such where all the black ones are... briefly... and run back home and lock the door!
They love them black gardener and them black maid, but... cho
The only few me see come into the hills is the church missionary ones... and them got the "attitude" that them is gonna "save" these poor black people. Cause even though most people in the hills is christian... them a the 'wrong' christian according to the missionary... and so them must come help them see the light!!!!
Still... the attitude of superiority!

And so Ayinde...
the answer to you questions is:
"whites have superiority complex?"... absolutely, no doubt about it.
"can they change from this conduct?"... absolutely, but it is a strenuous and effort-full and continuous process. It cannot be achieved from a distance.
"how can it be achieved?" It can only be achieved by destroying the attitude and stripping away the layer upon layer upon layer of defenses and rationalizations and whitewashments and fears bred into the Hearts/Minds. By gaining TRUE respect and honour and appreciation and admiration for a people they barely know.
How? By trying and trying and trying to become humble... a VERY difficult thing to do in a society that breeds ones to be haughty, arrogant and vain. And well achieves it in the sub-conscious.
If you are unaware of it... you cannot work to change it.

And I have suggested to ones upon this machine often... if you de want to learn from Rasta... go see if you can live with them. Reject all a you privilege... live in a community that is all a different skin colour from youself. No little visit sort a thing... LIVITY.
Is a rough thing to do...
but I know that unless this thing a happen...
and people work to uplift and to know...
things no change at all.
It would be a VERY rare one that could achieve the true Awareness from a distance... with no significant experience in them Life.
It does happen... but that is even more rare!! hahaha!!!

So... this issue not go away until ones and ones a face it honestly and fully. All the while...

Give thanks for reasoning!
Truth a the Way...
Thanks and Praises

IanI Rastafari
Guidance and Protection

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: John_Pancakes on May 01, 2003, 10:09:06 AM
Thank you, I will take theses comments to heart. I try to approach everyone I meet with a spirit of humbleness, and I fail quite often.

I believe that all humans are plagued with the sin of narcissism. Unfortunately those who need this type of reasoning the most will never seek it out!

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Princess Tracey on May 01, 2003, 11:09:54 AM
blessed reasonings IanI,

surely you feel and know what is pon my I sight everything the I bring forth from the deep tap root of the heart and soul

I give this great meditation to bring forth from my own experiances...the only thing I know...and can see from...

it occur to me over and over as the I say..."awareness" key!!

...SO many layers!

you see...people do not want to look at the truth...cause truth is not always pretty.. or happy...or joyful...or feels good...sometime it painful...and hurt! the other way most say...get it away away AWAY!!...give me something to cover it up with...or wash it over with..

...ahhh come the layers pon layers...

bury it...till the eye can't see ...till the heart can't feel it..
till the mind lie totally UNAWARE... (alseep at the wheel)

so many settle for the superficial trinkets of this world....
rather than realize the depths of their soul...sigh

my experiances have taught me deeply...that in order to move beyond to the other must FIRST - LOOK..
hold it up to the light..Jah light..bring judgment down pon thine OWNSELF... then, and only THEN, can come the birth of new realizations and the threshold of new awarenesses!

People so busy runnin from the truth/themselves, and filling their head with junk...they are useless in dealing with any subsitive matters that require one to walk through the fire of their own experiances... a flame that has the power to burn off that which is false...can we as a collective look at what is OUR OWN falseness??...ahhhhh...sadly not rightly is the RARE individual who seeks not to prop up HIMSELF...but rather walk with a sincere honesty that is humble, and open to others teaching HIM...

Many whites feel that if they have a "token" one or two black friends ...that that means they are not a racist...but I have observed that many of these token black friends had many white similarities/characteristics, and the cultural divide IS still quite an expansive gap!

The black and white issue is one of MANY in this world of great is but a symptom of a sick and ailing society..

And yes was only when I walked down the streets and into the hood, sat on the porches, talked, communed, went into peoples houses, invited people into my house... ate meals/broke bread..worked, sang, slept, built, shared along side of ..did the scales fall off my eyes...

but it wasn't easy...and many was the time I was ridiculed for being white in an all black arena...(who she think she IS?? - what's SHE doing here??) but it stregnthened me to FEEL much of this anger and where it come from AND forced me to LOOK at myself on a level I had never been challenged to do so before...and it showed me that respect is a TWO way also showed me why the distrust...but it also showed me a the power of a deep love that sprang forth from many a brother and sister that came forth and eventually welcomed me with open hearts souls and minds as we shared in varieties of things was only through allowing these experiances to open me wide and teach me from inside ...did I in fact GET to the other side..

does that mean I am welcomed with open arms wherever I go now?...absolutely NOT...these things take time to build...alll I know is that it is through working together, sharing, and communing, being humble, being honest, being authentic, do we begin the process of opening up, and forging a new way of thinking..

Certainly these experiances I do not see happening for most UNLESS you are willing to allow yourself to walk through the fire and look into a new mirror..

Life WILL most assuradley come to reveal her treasure to dem with eyes that are willing to SEE...but see it ALL one must...the lies, the deciept, the illusions of reality...ONLY then.. can the true JAHKINGDOM within make manifest it's gracious magnificent splendid glory beyond what the pale eyes of the limited flesh can see...

I look at so many of the faces today...eyes empty unable to look nor see except what lie pon the superficial surface..

where safe secure blinders keep the real world ...

far far AWAY  

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ayinde on May 01, 2003, 05:15:11 PM
Your eyes are ‘opened’ so you are seeing and not just looking.

Incidentally, I feel there are about four other Whites on these forums (including Jeff) that can make a breakthrough on race relations. But I do not intend to publicly give my ideas on a process while there are many other Whites on these forums who feel these discussions are irrelevant. Once they hold that position then I know they are too dishonest to be able to develop further and they deserve the criticisms of others.

Hats off to the two Whites on this thread and the other woman on the other forum who have the courage to view the issue for what it is.

I would still like to see other Whites join this reasoning before we can start working out the grey areas.

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: livelyup on May 01, 2003, 09:59:16 PM
Greetings to all,

and apologies for my late entry into this debate. It has been my policy to stay away from these sorts of questions on the general board, as i feel that they too quickly degenerate into slanging matches with no productive outcome. But here things seem a little different, particularly since Ayinde has been good enough to define the ideas down to a point wher they are able to be discussed with a little clarity. Give thanks.

So, ...  to address the questions that have been posed.

Do white people approach black people with a sense of superiority? Indeed I would say that they do. I would say that the exact form that this superiority takes varies considerably, from the sort of vaguely patronising 'what can I help you with?' thing, to the outright treatment of black people as being somehow sub-human. This is my experience of my fellow caucasian folk in general. There are, of course exceptions, but i believe this to be generally the case. A kind of suplementary question would be, why do white people do have a sense of superiority? My answer would be that the problem has little to do with our skin pigmentation and everything to do with our fundamental sense of cultural values, and our history, which are inextricably linked. White culture is based almost totally on the value attributed to material things. So if using this as your fundamental value base it is not hard to see how a superiority complex might evolve. Put simply, white people in general terms have more 'stuff' than black people. We are in charge economically and militarily, therefore we are the best. The fact that white people so consistently hold this view (i think...) lies in the kind of cultural history that we have had since Roman times. Before the roman invasions europe was a very diverse place, with a variety of material and spiritual values holding sway. talk of 'white people' as some sort of homogenous group would have been fairly absurd. This changed when the majority of white people came under the sway of a single authority, first in the form of the romans, then in the form of the church and its close partner the state. It became possible for unified sets of cultural values to be transmitted to a whole racial group, and the white superiority complex was born.

None of this is intended as any kind of excuse, it is simply explanatory, and it is speculative at that....
white people have a culture that is unique in the values it is founded upon, and the single mindedness with which these values have been pursued, regardless of the human cost. Indeed this materialism expresses itself in horrifying ways amongst white people themselves, let alone those who are seen as inferior. Our culture has replaced its soul with profit, and wisdom with information. Our own ancestors worst nightmares are now reality.

Which brings me to
can this superiority complex change? Once again i say yes, i do not believe that white people were always racist, and have met some individuals who i think are not, so it follows that racism is unlikely to be some kind of unavoidable genetic trait.

How do we effect this change? Ahhhh.... here is the rub. What we are talking about is fundamentally changing the values that are the foundation of a livity of hundreds of millions of people. Not just white people either, our culture is like a virus, it is spreading, now black, brown, and even green people can be white too. There will always be a grass roots movement that attempts to show individuals that this racist superiority complex is insane, and that the values that support this view are morally and intellectually bankrupt. But will this ever become a mass movement? Will white people ever really realise what they have done over the few thousand years? One of the reasons that i have not involved myself in the debate over reparations is my sense of the enormity of what this could mean. how exactly do you recompense a whole racial group for thousands of years of rape, slaughter, and pillage. And once you have established that principle, and decided to base your policy on righteousness, you have women, the young, the poor, children, the disabled, the different, to think about, because white people have been systematically abusing these folk too. There is not enough money in the whole world for true reparations to black people, let alone everyone else.

So .... i actually think that eventually white people as a whole will generally realise the idiocy of their ways, but that this will take generations. And much reasoning. Jah speed the day when this is no longer an issue, but that day is not now.

love and life

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: kristine on May 02, 2003, 12:04:59 AM
Greetings..Sharing some observations..first I will state and please bear with me..The behavior of the white race is currently at an all time high regarding arrogance...Technology used for so long to blind people is now turning the tables and exposing to the right people on both sides of the race issue the evilness being perpetuated...The structer is starting to fall..At the same time this is happening Black People are unifying to highest levels of conciousness...The tables are turning naturally...I don't think too many White People will be invited to the party...

I am going on ten years of marrige and have a daughter..One of the things we teach our youth is she is human first and Black forever..

In my dealings in this life I have come to know Black People are one of the few races walking the earth who still dwell conciously with JAH...the few White People who humble are able to see a glimmer of the reflection..Unfortunately having been given this gift they will forget about humbling and lose the gift..leaving babbling idiots who hold no truths...until again they can humble...

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Jeff on May 02, 2003, 09:52:51 AM
Greetings All

I have been lurking about in the shadows, reading the reasonings, taking time to digest before spouting off at the mouth and then sticking my foot in it.

The first thought that comes to mind when I read the title of this thread is the Black Uhuru song that has the line: "no matter if you're black, or if you have a white mind..." There is a definite syndrome (white/Western/'civilized' superiority complex) that plagues the human race, mostly white people, but also people of other colors and ethnicities as well (as western civ spreads its claws around the globe). I notice it at my job all the time. White people will do something or say something to either the Chinese cooks or the Mexican dishwashers, or even behind their backs, that only add to the stereotypes they (Mexicans and Chinese) might have of white people. Most of the time, if I call them on it, they realize that they are sub-consciously doing it, it seems so ingrained. I don't think they mean intentional harm, but it is so part of the psyche that it just happens.

I agree with IanI about white people and the way they view, let's say, the Ras there on JAH Lightning's land. I have always wanted to go to JA and go up to the hills to LEARN from the Elder Ras. I have heard some white Rasta sisters say that they want to go "liberate the sisters" in the JA Rasta scene, and I can only smile and think about how they need to go and LEARN. This all stems from the whole colonialistic mentality, the "white man's burden" of "civilizing the under-developed savages" etc. It reminds me of Speech's song Mr. Wendal...are we really civilized?

Western civ. could have learned much from the Chinese, the Native American Indians, the Africans and the Hindus, but it is the white superiority complex that plagues us time and again. I honestly feel white people need to humble themselves and try and learn from these other great, non-white cultures.

I find myself plagued by white mind all the time, I will be the first to admit. At times I get all upset at what people say about white folks, but then when I get past that and actually observe how white people act, in my everyday world, then I see that most of those stereotypes hold true.

On another side of this reasoning, I have a good friend who is a black Ras and he is always telling me that race doesn't matter. So where do I go from there?

One other thought, I see a lot of white people come into Rasta and learn about black-ness and Africa etc. and then develop a certain self-hate attitude. As a white man, I realize the mistakes of my anscestors, and the ever-going perpetuation of white/Western superiority, but I also have some pride in my own roots and family history. As I have mentioned before, my grandfather had to move to Colorado from Texas for desegregating his church. And my grandparents on my mom's side were poor Okie "white trash" who picked grapes with the Mexians here in Cali. I suppose that this experience had made my grandparents a bit more humble as they had virtually no rights when they came to this state from Oklahoma. I never heard my grandfather make racial remarks, and he always had a mistrust of the government and rich white folk. Thinking back on it, he never had that white superiority complex that my own dad seems to have.

One more question to add to this reasoning: is this a "white" mind or a "Western civilization" mind-set that plagues this world? I suppose that the two can be inter-twined...any thoughts?


Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: selassieilive on May 02, 2003, 12:06:32 PM
Greetings Jeff
The "white" mindset is the white supremist mindset.  I think the "hatred" that some whites feel for their race is justified.  U-ropeans have been a cancer in the world for a long time.  So maybe it is good for them to deny self(ego), which means to come outside of self, and realeyes that all are equal in Jah sight.  It will take a change in power and control for U-ropeans to humble themselves and let loose of this supremacist mindset.  So some things must be destroyed for that to happen.

When they realeyes that Jah control all things, then maybe healing will come.  Blackness will prevail.


Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 02, 2003, 12:50:20 PM
My Elder IanI,

Love and Respect to the I,

I guess I didn't express myself clearly in the last post.

In the example I shown, that you pointed a patronizing attitude, I meditated on that, and It came to my mind that, trully, what I felt I was doing was to say to a brethren that I felt considered himself to be inferior them me, I was humbly trying to say: please, why are you treating me differntly? Why is this feeling of segregation of levels taking place? Don't you know how I admire you and want to learn from you?

What I love in this life is honesty and humbleness; and the simplest people are the ones who can show that.

I have no intentions of elaborating social programs or things like that. But if I can remember to friends, by the researches I have made,a bout some facts history wants to hide...if I can share this with them and help in some way...isn't that a bebeficial attitude to all?

I don't think that perception of reality and it's laws are necessarily related to accumulated knowledge, as we all a concience to tell us the true if we may listen.

Give thanks for pointing this interpretation, but made me feel I had passed a wrong interpretation of my feelings.

ut anyway, if you think I'm still blind to see what you so kindly want to show me, please try it again and sorry if I pass the impression that I'm feeling difficultly to overstand this matter.

Always love reasoning with the I Elder IanI :D

Give thanks for sharing roots and culture with us all,



Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Jeff on May 03, 2003, 10:34:48 AM
Greetings Selassie I Live

I agree that white people have to step out of their world and see the world as it really is, history as it really is, etc., but does this need to lead to self-hatred? Of course there needs to be guilt, and in time that guilt will give way to a sense of wanting to correct through action and dialogue, but is it good to say that anybody should hate themselves for the color of their skin or of the past/current crimes of their people?

Also, as we move forward with these reasings and dialogue, is it good to make sweeping generalizations about a group of people or history in general? I mean, to say that, for example, all Europeans were responsible for slavery and colonialism isn't really correct. Only rich land owners, politicians, and merchants had slaves in Europe or rtaded slaves in Africa. The serfs of the land, poor whites, had no say about slavery, and their ideas of non-whites was usually based on ignorance and could a serf, who had never traveled twenty miles out of his own village, possibly know about the world at large? How can history judge these people as bad people? Ignorant, maybe, but not inheritantly evil? I feel that this is what the self-hatred I am talking about comes into play. When white people really dig into their own roots, as Rasta teaches us to do, we can find mostly negative actions of our anscestors, but there is also some good there, and so, in my personal reasonings, I see no reason for self-hatred.

If we are going to have race dialogue, is it productive for any one to make generalized statements about an entire race of people (white or black, or asian etc.)?

I Give Thanks for the this Blessed Reasoning!

JAH LOVE Selassie I Live

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: selassieilive on May 03, 2003, 12:59:53 PM
Greetings again Jeff
I used the word 'hatred' because that is the word u chose to use.  That is why is marked the word in quotation marks.  U are correct in using the word 'guiltiness.'  This is a better description of their emotions.  Because if there was 'hatred' for their white race, they would deny everything dealing with white people.  But since their mother is white and father is white, sisters and brothers are white, it is a nearly impossible task to achieve.  They will have to confront their 'whiteness' at some point.  They will make use of their white priviledge at some time.

In I opinion, inorder for white people to change their white supremacist mindset, they have to step outside of self and see the world and how it interacts around them instead of thinking they are the world and things interact because of them.

It is the denial of self (ego) that I was addressing.  Not hatred of self.  There is no progression harboring hatred.


Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Jeff on May 03, 2003, 11:36:35 PM
Give Thanks Selassie I Live


Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: IanI on May 04, 2003, 08:46:55 AM
Greetings Ras Mandingo,

Here it is.
No feel no way about what me de say about you reasoning. Ok?
Why? Cause if you de let you emotion lead... reality will never be faced for true. I say this because the I discuss you "feelings" there in you response a bit much. Seen.
And this is one of the things I try and point out in me post... the attitude that is ingrained in the psyche of the white ones. And emotion, "feeling", always get in the way and lead to denial and refusal to see.

I am sure that you "feelings" towards you friend there is quite honest. Your intentions are from the Heart.
the bottom line is THIS...
it is NOT up to you, as a white one, to "show" the black one how his inferiority "exsists and must be corrected and transended". (your words)
Don't you see what I am saying here?
There are many, many white ones who think they are doing the right thing when they try and "correct" their black bredren...
however, "correcting" the black ones "inferiority complex" is not up to you and is mostly taken as insult... with the immediate reaction being...
"who the HELL do you think you are to tell me how to see myself!? To tell me to love myself more and to uplift my mind and my perception!?(your words again) What have you ever been through that would make you understand what I am and how I am, and why I am the way I am!?"

If you have certain information and data that you think would be beneficial to you friends, no one says that you should not share it with them. Give them the African history book as a gift... that kind a thing, man.
But to think that you can tell the man how to feel, or be... is just a patronizing attitude that you do not have the ability right now to realize.

If the reality is that you admire the man and want to learn from him then it is questions that you should be asking of him... and not sentamentality "corrections" to his "inferiority complex".
Are you getting me here yet?

This is a very important reasoning here and not an attempt to dis-hearten you or dis-courage you. ok? And I am not calling you 'racist'... so do not let you emotions take control here.

What I am saying is that your privilege and your favor have had serious con-notations upon you psyche... you colour as well as you class. And as I said, it takes long, long time and serious, serious meditations to see it and overcome it.
Not seeing it and acknowledging it is where many go astray.

Ras... I de read all a you reasonings here and see that you heart a good and you desire is for Righteousness. So no take this reasoning discouragingly... please.
The reason Ayinde bring this to the front line is because it is a vital matter that must be looked at with great care and ...yes... HONESTY.

One a the things me so appreciate about Jah Lightening was His teachment to and about the white ones. Many Rastas do not even allow a white one in them yard... not even past the gate! But James always explain how the white ones was in such serious confusion and Him say them no never gonna learn a damn thing if Black ones just chase them away. But... IanI did see that many a white one that come to the hills come with "love" and infatuation, but not any REAL longing to overcome the shame and dishonour them a carry deep within them psyche. So them just "visit' and leave a trinket to 'help out' IanI Rastafari... maybe some little breads(money)... or a new pot fe cooking... or a book about Bob...
and them never even return.
You see what me de get at here?
And Iya never say to them, "you white and you got superiority complex! change it!"
Cause Him know that just bring up... defense!
Him a Wise One... Him know when to be subtle in Him teachment.
And many a bredren say that Him just want white ones around cause them can get Him some breads! So them de come to Him gate begging for a 10 dollar or a 20 dollar whenever them see white one there!
Cho... what a go on in the minds a men!

Look Ras... me no say don't help out you brother...
what me say is watch you attitude about "correcting his complex".
Being honest with you-self is the first step...
humble to you-self... and then...
All a we to LIVE as ONE!
Righteousness a RULE!

Always IanI give thanks fe the reasoning ability here.
Ras Mandingo... LOVE and RESPECT!
Reasoning a GIFT fe true!

IanI Rastafari
Guidance and Protection

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?a
Post by: IanI on May 04, 2003, 10:30:21 AM
Irie Jeffman!

Ah... me glad to see the I a come reason.
First me say...
"white" mind and "western civilization" mindset a inter-twined fe true.
racism is evident in all public arenas.
The history is that the europeans 'conquered' the globe with a severe attitude of superiority and "civilization". And every where they went they brought that attitude to the indigenous people that survived. Even if they brought "white trash" labor with them from say, England... those white ones were made to believe that they were of some "higher" status or position because they had "white" skin. They were taught, literally, that the colour of their skin was a sign from their god of their "higher" rank in gods eyes. They were "made white'" because of their "favor" from god.
Now this teachment is not very old... and it is not gone.
many would like to say that it is... putting on blinders...
and not seeing it right in their own psyche.
And some... a few... are determined to abandon this wicked teachment and eliminate it from their Hearts.

Selassieilive say:
"in order for white people to change their white supremist mind-set, they have to step outside of self and see the world and how it interacts around them, instead of thinking they are the world and things interact because of them."

First I would say, they have to step outside their "conditioned" self... or "ego" as you put it next...
not their True Self... which is where they really need to go!
and so then my question would be...
how to do that?
If someone does not even know or admit that this "ego" problem exsists, how would they ever go about changing it?
And... for the ones that do know it exsists, is there any way to change it beyond their own Heart/Mind? Collectively?

The people of the bush are considered by most "western civilization" to be "primitive" and "backward"...
how does a group go about changing that perception?
Many see them from a distance and say, "oh wouldn't it be neat to live like that!?"... but in reality the mind-set is that the "higher civilized" people should "help" those underlings get "civilized".
So what is the TRUE definition of "civilization"?
Technologically advanced?
Materialistically wealthy?
Scientifically knowledgable?
Socially advanced?
Spiritually wealthy?
Cosmologically knowledgable?

you Ras there that says "race dosen't matter", is of course correct in the realm of Higher Heights...
but how does one achieve those Higher Heights if they cannot look, acknowledge and work to change the flaws that exsist in his own character?
And the generalizations are made because the majority of a people are as stated.
It is always also stated that... some... do not fit in with the generalization.
Ayinde has explained this well, before. Seen?

When racism is a thing of the past, it will be another history matter that IanI can learn about and make sure it no happen again... like we like to believe about slavery. But fe now it is VITAL that IanI reason about it's influence and consequence upon each a we own selves and the world as a whole.

Thanks and Praises!
Reasoning a FORWARDING for each a we!

IanI Rastafari
Guidance and protection

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: RasIene on May 04, 2003, 01:32:03 PM
Greetings all and Iance to the reasoning make availe by truly presence in the life of many Rastas who are privilege to use a computer. I often meditate on how Idrens living in the hills of Jamaica, Ethiopia and else where feel about computers and its power to deliver information.

Now! I know that Rastafari has been infiltrated by organization seeking to overstand what makes Rasta what it is today. Mark you Rastaman have the power to re-define, raise consciousness, and deliver values not upheld around the world. It is for these powers that Rasta are being carefully observed and spied upon for.

Rasta is able to deliver the above mention without a pulpit, without an organized religious base, without preaching, without force. And trust I! it is commendable. However, it is a threat to the establishment of babylon as they are not able to overstand such power inherent in the Rastaman movement.

Therefore, you will find many different people, especially caucasions following Rasta ways. But not all of them are there for the livity; but to seek out information that they can either use for themselves on behalf of some organization. Better yet some are on the payroll of the CIA, FBI and the Umbrella organization formed recently call Home Land Security. I feel and sense that it is watered down communism.

Anyway, like I have said in other article on this board, the  Black Muslims in America have often put in their newspaper, "What the Black Muslims want." The caucasion Rastas should like wise do and say, 'What the white Rastas want." Having said that I think it will shed light on the distinction of Rasta movement particular that Rasta is borne out of the Black experience in the ghettos of Jamaica and Africa.
There are no membership or prerequiste to become a Rasta follower, so anyone can claim that they are Rastafari. It is that automatic admission that makes Rasta appealing and Powerful to those looking for a sanctuary. However, deep down who can truly live the livity and precepts of the Rastaman. It is not about following or adhering to King James Version that gives credence, but Rasta will be a challenge to (any one-caucaion and non-black)them that step in with hope of serving their sanctimonious pursuits.

Many have come aboard and find confusion. Many lay waste and are now cursing Rasta that it has not deliver. Why! they did not become santified as they thought, and thus remain the same person prior to coming into Rastafari philosophy.

So on the inside caucasions and other non-black are being looked at keenly by black Rastafari from the outside. Because there are many doors to enter through inorder to overs Rastafari, but only one door out. If you as a Rasta is not able to enter in and out freely through the livity of Rastafari then you are trap. I think that is how many black Rastas look at caucasion Rastas as been trap in a movement whereby they  look for sanctity.

Truly! that is how now after you find Caucasion Rastas developing their own theory and overstanding. Some even attemp to make suggestions which amaze the tiniest of mightiest in Rastafari theology. For example, they would start a church after the organized religion order in the name of Selassie I, wrtie books for academic theology, go out of their academe to talk the Rastan lingo, drfy their parents money in trust for them, and grab every piece of reggae music out there. Some even attempt to lecture as authority on the roots and diefication of Rastaman.

However, I and I is not postulating that it is wrong or right. But I and I say that since they are in the movement and have develop these avenues after being trap they must espound on "what the caucasion Rastas want." Untill they can do that they will be able to enter in and out freely in the philosophical spirit of the Nyahman(binghi) vibes, telepathetic powers, iconical reasoning, culture, and the most elusive the blackman experience, the Rastaman fearful powers etc.

So this is I stake, RasIene...Ivine Rasta.  

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 05, 2003, 12:58:20 PM

Give thanks for the words my Idren!!!

True that I'm still a very emotional person and babylon get me crying sometimes alone. I use to be a very week heart, meaning things would always hurt me easily. My grandfather used to say that was because of to much sugar and liquid that diluted my inner person.

But I'm one who is looking for righteousness and thruths and rights with a good heart (as the I mentioned). So, I'm always looking for listening to what any person has to honestly say to me, specially if it's a respectfull position (as I always get here in the board). So, your words will be reverberating deep into I mind the next days.

What you said reminded me that I should be worring about "correcting" and "influencing" my ownself, and not other people.

So, I'm working to become less emotive and more functional (meaning more open to recieve reasonings and to relate with them).

Give thanks for telling me, so honstly how I see I actions, and feel OK to keep on doing so, that's how I can learn and become a better human beeing (wich is my aim in the end).

I feel good we can reason. Feel good with that and don't feel ofended or things like that. And, if I have a superiority complex let me observe that insilence and anylise it to overcome it gradually.

Love and respect to the I my Elder.



Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 05, 2003, 01:36:10 PM

I forgot to mention:

I feel there's almost no information about Rastafari in Brasil. In 5 years researching about Rasta I couldn't find one single book in portuguese on the topic.

As a journalist/researcher/english teacher, I felt that the way I can contribute to the Rasta trod, according to I individual skills, would be to put the information I was researching in a book and offer to the people in my country, to spread the light and share the reasoning.

Do you feel this is a patronizing attitude? I have no intention to contribute by offering money or with superficial and non-functional things. This is something I feel isnpired and vibrating to do.

If you feel there's patronizing attitude in this, how could I do it without giving this impression? And by asking so I have no intention to atribute you the title of some kind of oracle, but I respect a lot the I words and attitudes.

I always feel like a student who wnats to listen, ponder and learn.

Give thanks for the word/sound/power!!!

All the respect to you my Elder,

The Idren mandingo - Brasil.

By the way IanI, do you still live in Jamaica?

I know it's a future destiny, when the time come (and the building I live is named Jamaica, so I'm feeling almost there for the last five years hahaha!!!).

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 05, 2003, 01:52:16 PM
Finally IanI (sorry for breaking the post like that but images keep on coming to I mind):

Surelly one that sees original people (bushmen) as uncivilized or savage, really has to stop and ponder about what is life all about. How can a civilization so young like the western one could desorganize the world so fast and so agressively, while ancient cultures lived for so long in harmony with the laws of the universe?

I think is a fundamental point you make to desmistify the topioc regarding superirority comples. feel superior for what, for beeing part of such degenerative society that takes away the right of the next geenration of living life and getting a world to live. Because we should take care of the planet for the next generations, making sure that we can mediate the past (ancestors) and the future (ascendents) in the present (we).

Love and respect, and sorry if I used too much space and words.

Ras Mandingo jahson.

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 05, 2003, 03:09:15 PM
Greetings to all,

And greetings IanI and Ayinde,

Your words made me meditate on a recent story in my life existence. About the Capoeira moment that I share with you all I was (am) going through in the Capoeira environment. Was I having a patronizing attitude?

Just to recall the points:

I recieved an e-mail full of accusations from someone named "Devilson".

The reason why I got this e-mail: I had left the Capoeira Group (and my Master).

The reason I left the group: I felt not welcomed, because as I research of life went on and one, and douts and questions arose, I didn't find space to dialogue it mith my master (mainly), and when I wnated to dialogue with the collegues of practice, I was accusing of trying to downtrone the Master.

What were the points I felt urgentcy to dialogue with him: Africanicity of Capoeira and how it relates to Rastafari. How Capoeira would mean and represent as an examaple of an individual. Why Capeira needed to be violent and the importance of preserveing the self integrity of the Idrens and Sistrens during the practicies.

What poinst did disturb them more: I moved to Angola as I realized how what I was looking for had more space there. This after beeing studyind ACpoeira with this same and first and only master.

But I felt I needed to move forward, see!!!

Well, give thanks for the insights this reasoning had offered me,


Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: IanI on May 06, 2003, 06:31:46 AM
Irie Ras Mandingo,

First... does me live a Jamaica still...
me mother a live in the states and is old and in need of help so I am here for a time. But I get forward to me gates in the hills as often as possible. Soon... I hope. Me sister may take me mother for a time. Seen

Next... about the book...
well... research is one thing, but experience is quite another. Perhaps the best for start would be to get to the books written by Rastas and write to them publishers asking for the books to be written in Portuguese. Maybe something like that, eh.
And me glad you no see I as "oracle" :O... hahahaha!!!!
give thanks!

And the thing me see about the group thing the I a go through is not so much 'patronizing'... however...
you emotions were the first to respond when you get the e-mail, no?
And you write and say you 'master' de send it... but later you say that master no send it.
So... all I can do here is point out that you must work upon those emotions as reaction to the circumstances in you life. Emotions can get the better a we every time if we no learn to control them. Can be the cause of much mis-under-standing and wrongdoing.
And it sounds like the emotions is the problem with the ones in you first group that feel need to critisize you fe making the move.

Emotion... a whole nother topic!

Be irie Ras...

IanI Rastafari
Guidance and Protection

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 06, 2003, 07:24:53 AM
Give thanks for the words once again Elder IanI!!!

Good Idea you give about translations. I already translated the book "Marijuana and the bible" frrom the former member of the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church, Jeff Brown, who lives in Miami. I managed to reason with him by e-mail and he gave all the support to the project. I'm woeking to save money so I can edit it.

Another book I'm starting to translate is Rastafari - Healing of the Nations (By Dennys Forsythe).

About the other topic (emotions), I was meditating yseterday how true is this that you said. A lot of times people use emotions as a way of stoping the reasoning to go deeper and deeper.

How do you relate with emotive people, I use honesty, pacience, love and perceeption, praying that the effective words and ways are revealed to me when I need to.

Really love reasoning with the I,

Give thanks for the words once again.


Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: jojo on May 27, 2003, 09:24:25 PM
may we all be purified in heart soul & spirit.....
GIVING THANKS for the breath of life this day and now night is coming in the SF bay is truly a gift!
i am a new member to this group.....i won't call myself RASTAFARI...
i am a caucasian female...seeking truth & wisdom......was led to this website.....
reading this thread had me reflect upon a song i wrote awhile back....took me hours to find the paper i wrote it on and then i revised it a lil bit........i was gonna post it in the poetry section but then decided to post it it goes....


all my hair is falling out
i don't think before i open my mouth
and my bones are getting thin
but i'll step on your feet and keep on walking

all my food comes in a package
and all my kids' toys are made of plastic
at night i turn on the TV set
just to see how i'm supposed to live

i've got a dozen products to put on my face
and even more anti-bacterial to clean my place
i've got chemicals for every season
the bugs and the weeds give me the reason

most of my dinner goes to waste
still i can't look a beggar in the face
i just pretend they don't exist
hope they don't speak to me or try to persist

i need my money for the tanning salon
$10,000 more goes to my plastic surgeon
for the collagen in my lips
and the silicon in my breast & hips

why don't you just go get a job
instead of hanging around here looking like a slob
go comb and cut your hair
because i don't feel comfortable when my children stop & stare

and if you don't conform to my beliefs
my government will destroy you & your family
with drugs and the "JUST-US" system
we'll keep your strong ones down or just lock them up in prison

and when my kid's try to rebel
i'll blame it all on you and say "you're going to hell"
and disown them from the family
while tagging them with the name of "BLACK SHEEP"

i've got the WHITE MAN'S DISEASE.........

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 28, 2003, 06:05:08 AM
Give thnaks for this realistic lines Jojo.

Welcome to the reasoning board...and let's reason.

Let's get free of the white man's disease by becoming aware of what is normal, natural, vitilizing, uplifiting, positive and righteous in Jah sight.



Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: jojo on June 01, 2003, 08:59:49 PM

Thank you for the welcome...


Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: jojo on June 02, 2003, 03:25:11 AM
greetings people in the sight of the ALMIGHTY


it may take much suffering
it may take many beatings
for some of us (white folks) to learn
each one of us
(white folks)
need to stop denying
honestly seek a purifying
give up your comfort zone
leave your happy home
spend time out in the streets
all alone
will you be afraid
will you trust in the ALMIGHTY
to see you to another day
get by on "intuition"
give JAH thanks
loose your life
if you feed on strife
risk it if you believe
in eternity



in the sight of the ALMIGHTY CREATOR
i say LOVE everlasting
from jojo

Title: Re: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?
Post by: jojo on June 02, 2003, 03:42:32 AM
greetings again people


We And Them
  we no know how we and them
  a go work this out
  we no know how we and them
  a go work it out
  but someone will have to pay
  for the innocent blood
  that they shed every day
  oh children mark my word
  it's what the bible say yeah! yeah!
  we no know how we and them
  a go work this out
  we no know how we and them
  a go work it out

  but in the beginning jah created evereything
  giving man dominion over all things
  but now it's to late, you see men have lost their faith
  eating up all the flesh from off the earth
  we no know how we and them
  a go work this out
  we no know how we and them
  a go work it out
  we no know how we and them
  a go work it out
  them a flesh and bone
  we no know how we and them
  a go work it out
  but we now have no friends in a high society
  we no have no friends, oh mark my identity
  we no have no friends

  we no know how we and them
  a go work this out
  we no know how we and them
  a go work it out
  we no know how we and them
  a go work this out
  we no know how we and them
  a go work it out