Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

GENERAL => Special Reasonings Archive => Topic started by: Ayinde on May 02, 2003, 04:42:25 PM

Title: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ayinde on May 02, 2003, 04:42:25 PM
Posted By: Ayinde, Rastafari Speaks Forum (
Date: Thursday, 1 May 2003, at 8:24 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Can the Whiteness of Mind be Changed? ( (ROOTSWOMAN)

"Not to mention the FACT that bleached flour, sugar, etc is DILUTED (weakened) from its original, natural (and healthier) BROWN/RAW beginnings...and cannot be reversed."

I suspect that you were speaking metaphorically and I am adding in case this is not understood.

These products don't have a will and the ability to choose for themselves. But I hope other Whites can show they are different to mindless products that cannot change on their own.

Speaking for myself, I am not writing people off without giving them the opportunity to reason out our differences. I cannot form a hard line position on all Whites because I know a few who are making great strides (although too few and they still have a way to go). But I do see many come on these forums and use the words 'one love' and 'Respect' hoping all would be well by the repetition of those words. That is why I try to keep away from those words unless I am sure the person to whom I am using it really deserves it.


Why would more Whites, and some who feel they are White, not want to engage a reasoning on a Rasta setting to acknowledge that racism exist and to tell us if they see it as a serious problem worth addressing?

Is it not a problem for them?

How can they embrace Rastafari, in and amongst Black people and not want us to seriously address this issue?

How could people speak about ‘one love’, Respect, and all the other nice sounding words and not want to put this respect and love to the test?

Could it be that some would like to get involved but are afraid?

Could it be that they really have never given it serious thought?

Could it be that they have taken the position that it cannot be resolved therefore there is no reason to discuss it?

Do they expect Africans to embrace them with 'one love' without proof that 'one love' this time does not mean enslavement, exploitation and another marketing strategy?

Should we conclude that most Whites amongst us are simply not interested in the concerns of the more informed Africans?

Or is it that an issue is only relevant when Whites feel to put it on the table?

Should we all stop the race talk and only listen to reggae music and smoke weed, while some white are using Rastafari to build businesses and promote hypocrisy?


Posted By: ROOTSWOMAN, Rastafari Speaks Forum (
Date: Friday, 2 May 2003, at 4:24 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Can the Whiteness of Mind be Changed? (Ayinde)

"Why would more Whites, and some who feel they are White, not want to engage a reasoning on a Rasta setting to acknowledge that racism exist and to tell us if they see it as a serious problem worth addressing? Is it not a problem for them?"

How can one truly OVERSTAND something without direct EXPERIENCE? One may sympathize…one may empathize…but unless you walk in the shoes of another, you’ll never really overstand to a FULLNESS what that other person’s DAILY experience/reality is. When you are part of a collective who, generally speaking, receives "carte blanche" (white card) or WHITE SKIN PRIVILEDGE, how can one be expected to overstand the AFRIKAN EXPERIENCE of oppression under that collective system/order/culture?

"How can they embrace Rastafari, in and amongst Black people and not want us to seriously address this issue?"

Because it forces them to look deeeeeeep within the very recesses of their MENTAL DNA, psyche, natures and historical patterns, which are but a reflection of their cultural "ASILI" (seed). It is often too horrific to have to look in the mirror and realize you represent the very image of a people who have historically proven to act in very BEASTLY fashion (as opposed to GODLY). It is often much easier to bury your head in the sand, while repeating the "mantra" ONE LOVE…ONE LOVE…ONE LOVE…and not being part of a people who experience the opposite of "one love" on a daily basis. Their "one love" concept is an ANESTHETIC they use to prevent from FEELING the deeds of their ancestors, as well as to keep us mentally enslaved and "in our place".

"How could people speak about 'one love', Respect, and all the other nice sounding words and not want to put this respect and love to the test?"

Coz its easier to pontificate than to come forward with ACTION.

"Could it be that some would like to get involved but are afraid?"

Fear is a negative concept. It is FEAR of genetic annialation, which is the essence of their New World Order and historical pattern. Fear of the "wrath of God" for the wicked deeds imposed on ALL OTHER PEOPLES OF THE EARTH. Fear of Judgment from the Creator for the abuse of His/Her Creation and Children.

FEAR is the root of RACISM!

"Could it be that they really have never given it serious thought? "

Perhaps…but what is thought without action? It is nothing by intellectual masturbation.

"Could it be that they have taken the position that it cannot be resolved therefore there is no reason to discuss it? "

How does one begin to take out tiny grains of sand imbedded in sand?

"Do they expect Africans to embrace them with 'one love' without proof that 'one love' this time does not mean enslavement, exploitation and another marketing strategy?"

YES. History speaks for itself.

"Should we conclude that most Whites amongst us are simply not interested in the concerns of the more informed Africans? "

We can never really make blanket statements or generalizations, but based upon HISTORICAL PATTERN and the present day order…. I would say that the "concerns of more informed Africans" FORCES them to look within (and their past/ancestors), which is most uncomfortable and difficult for many (not all)

"Or is it that an issue is only relevant when Whites feel to put it on the table?"

Again, history speaks for itself. If whites present it…it must be "right". If "the more informed Africans" present it…it is "angry and militant". This addresses the issue of PSHYCHOLOGICAL racism imbedded DEEPLY in the minds of many. If its white…its right. If it’s brown, don’t’ stick around. If its Black…STAY BACK.

"Should we all stop the race talk and only listen to reggae music and smoke weed, while some white are using Rastafari to build businesses and promote hypocrisy? "

Perhaps this is the "master plan" disguised behind ASSIMILATION? Behind all the "one love", "can’t we all just get along" thing, hasn’t Europe proven to us that under all his talk of "universal" love is ECONOMIC EXPLOITATION? Some Africans say, 'The white missionaries came. They gave us the Bible, but they took our land.'"

Brothah Ayinde, give thanks for the questions/reasonings. Let me reiterate that I am speaking in GENERAL terms and not making blanket statements. But I must repeat this again and again. When we are discussing the European psyche/nature/history, we are addressing the COLLECTIVE deeds, not the individual.


Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ayinde on May 02, 2003, 11:58:50 PM
Re: Resistance...., Rastafari Speaks Board (
Posted By: Iyabinghi Ashanti Zebulun
Date: Thursday, 1 May 2003, at 7:50 p.m.

Again in light of all the discussions on race that presently pervades this board, I am going to address these BURNING questions to all caucasians of Rastafari. Rootsie, untojah, Freespirit, Sister Iriejah and others who know themselves need not worry, as on several occasions you have expertly addressed this which makes the I's exempt from these questions. Now:


Honestly speaking do you truly overstand, why there exist distrust of your intentions and motives?

Do you overstand why it is that you are severely questioned on all aspect of this livity, especially when you step into our village and proclaim to tell us how to run it?

Do you truly overstand the immediate resistance?

Do you overstand the reasons why you cannot lead this movement?

Do you overstand that even if I'n'I black sistrens and brethrens, even when wrong in their approach, still has the right to question your authenticity, your motivation, your presence?

Do you overstand that it is an outright insult to I'n'I, when you try to define this livity, fixing it to meet your needs, dictating to I'n'I about this Afrikan enlightenment that I'n'I have given to the world?

Do you truly overstand the root of this BLACK MOVEMENT and what it truly signifies to I'n'I as a people?

Do you truly overstand what I as a people collectively have gone through, first being BLACK and then being RASTA?

Do you truly sight this as a BLACK MOVEMENT and that platiudes of one love and quoting from Haile Sellassie(the BLACK GOD, as perceived by many of I sistren and brethren), to teach I people about Rastafari, that it does not sit well with I'n'I?

Do you realize that when you do that, that you are overstepping your boundaries as a caucasian in the midst of this BLACK MOVEMENT?

Do you realize that some of your attitudes immediately reminds I'n'I of your ancestors wickedness toward I people?

Do you realize the extent of the pain I'n'I feel for what your ancestors has done and is still doing to I'n'I people?

Do you sit and ponder on these things before you embrace this BLACK COVENANT? Do you realize that I'n'I have the RIGHT(!) to question your motives?

Will you give credence to those RIGHTS and not preach to I about peace and one love?

As if I'n'I have no idea what that means. Who is the real SHAMAN/RASTAMAN here?

It was I who first said "peace and love" even in the face of BLACK AND WHITE DOWNPRESSORS!








Check the responses on the Rastafari Speaks Board (

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 03, 2003, 04:52:49 AM
Give Thanks for your words Ayinde, really!!!

I guess white people can see a reflection of what their ancestor did in words and attitudes like your. Did is very nice. This stimulates the perception. I feel is not possible for a white person to see all that you discribed in fullness, as the opressed, because he never was one. But he can feel the refelction and the consequences of what the ancestors did and feel and live againg all the agression and evil attitude. Feeling this again, and in a strong way, with the help of such honest, strong, Kingly and decent people, as a karmic treatment. One can work out a lot of blocked energies inside one never even thought about.

Sure the race topic is important, because is a reality. I feel that every topic that disturbs a group of people and disturbs the energies creating bad vibes MUST be reasoned UNTIL ALL PEOPLE FEEL RELIEVED AAND CAN WORK DIFFERENT ATTITUDE AS THE RESULT OF REALLY HONEST AND LIBERATING REASONING.

Speaking for myself, I was raised by two black women, as my parents were always travelling and didn't have much contact with them.

Living my childhood in the countryside, most of my collegues were black and brown. I was never exposed to agressive insults related to the color of my collegues/friends skin. For me they just had different tons of color, but wasn't something I would carer to observe.

Going to school was when I realized that there were really less people from other races (blacks and Indians). Also, there was still no race debate in the schools and the only side of history told was the colonialist one. Now this is changed. In this new government, Lula has created a Minister for the equality of races, were there are lots of reparation movements happening: legally recognizing the lands of the quilombos, teaching the african and the Indian side of the
story in the school, opening more space in the universities for black people.

My girlfriend is black and she was sauing to me two sentences that discribe the feeling towards Africans in brasil, still:

"A Black man standing still is a suspect, and running is a criminal".

"A poor white  man is black, a rich black man is white".

In my view, most white people really don't care (and don't wnat to know) about race story, and in Brasil there's tendency to say it's a non racist country, but still find strange to see a black man/woman with money for example. So, still there's a feeling that black people are servents. And minimum salaries and police force are just the modern ways to keep slavery going on.

All your questions are worth of credit, them all go right into the point. And most white people probably didn't even think about that because they didn't feel it in their skins, see!!!

Well, that's what I have for now, I hope I could help developing this reasoning.


Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 03, 2003, 05:28:33 AM
I forgot to mention:

There's a similar erasoning in Brasil regarding Capoeira. Capoeira is an african art and was introduced in Brasil by Congo-Mende Africans.

Capoeira was originally only for the black people.

Now Capoeira is for "everyone" and where is this leading it?

I remember a black friend asking to a Regional Master about the africanicity in Capoeira and the Master would say: don't worry about beeing black, be a man. Now, this are the same people who now want to say that capoeira is a brasilian art, from the afro-brasilian (?).

In Angola style one can see the principles and direction towards african livity, eventhought it's open to all people, but the focus, the destiny is african liberation, and all good heart people is welcomed to join.

In Regional, CApoeira is just nice kiks, you see. They jsut got the art to make it a product, and want to go abroad to "spread the culture" when they just want to make money.

I think they are very valid questions?

What white people look for in Rasta?

How is white people going to behave in Rasta?

What is white people going to do with Rasta livity?

Do they want to correct/reparete ancestral sins? Do they search for becoming better human beeings? Or they just want to have a good time, or to find another product to sell?

Probably, white people have to pass through a period of feeling INFERIOR, so that they can compensate so much superiority feeling.

Give thanks to JAH for the possibility of beeing here,


Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Bantu_Kelani on May 03, 2003, 03:52:00 PM
Greetings Dear Bethren and Sistren,

I have alos noticed that white "Rastas" tend to avoid racial discrimination topics. I questionned a white "rasta" the other day about that and what was his stance about it he jiust completly ignored my question but did not forget to tell me to avoid reading too much progressive and pro-black materials. What this all about? They can say all they want that they are "rastas" but the truth is, they are FIRST of all whites and protectors of their privilege.

May the Light of Jah save us ALL!


Title: Rastafari as a movement: the underlying prejudices
Post by: Ayinde on May 03, 2003, 04:19:04 PM
The reason I am staying with this issue is because there is much Rasta could do but it is limited because of the distrust among all those who claim Rastafari.

I always felt that if different people have to interact and reason well, then underlying prejudices should first be addressed. Without addressing them, then there is no reason to try to become friends or anything more with those who are not interested in working through deep-seated prejudices. There is no use keeping a relationship with people whom you continually distrust except for the purpose of working out those differences (i.e. Racism and Gender ignorance) Mind you, it is the same hypocrites who continually try to chide Africans for generalizations as if a generalization amounts to the experiences of Racism.

The real issue is integrity or lack thereof.

It is not as if people do not understand that these issues should be resolved before we can build as a collective. It is like some people feel things are already in their favour so there is no need to 'rock the boat'.  (More illusions)

I am seeing a new argument about Rastafari being a spiritual journey and not a Black movement. (on the other board) Who told that person that Black issues are not an integral part of spiritual development? Dealing with prejudices are part of character building and that is the most important part of spiritual development.

Actually, this is a very dishonest argument because most Whites who embrace Rasta did so from the perspective of its resurgence in the 1930s and as such they are trying to identify with Rastafari from the perspective of the Black liberation struggle.

Once White people's awareness of Rasta is limited to the 1930s onwards then they cannot identify with Rastafari in essence (spiritually). They cannot do so for the simple fact that they did not and cannot have the experiences of the Africans who felt compelled to go their own way and recapture symbols of Black leadership. They could study it as hard as they like and all they would get is an understanding but not the knowledge that comes from real/realised identification.

Identifying is bonding (spiritually) with the essential knowledge of something. This can only be attained through direct experiences or through realizing Oneself through the experiences of others. If people are trying to bond through a spiritual journey (self-realization), then they must go through certain well-defined paces to realize similar experiences. (Not to actually go through the experiences but to realize them. I hope people get this point)

Africans can legitimately have all three relationships with Rasta at the same time. They can identify with Rasta Spiritually through self-reflection, which has its roots in Africa and Black awareness. Africans can identify with Rasta as an earthly movement because they continue to experience the same negative discriminations that gave rise to it. Africans can also identify with Rasta in a symbolic way because they can look the part after going through the legitimate processes.

Whites can only have a Spiritual and a Symbolic relationship with Rastafari. If they lack the spiritual awareness then what looks like a symbolic relationship is in reality an insincere cosmetic relationship.

It is the same with other types of relationships. There is the physical relationship (A movement), the Symbolic relationship and the Spiritual relationship. Only people with shared experiences can start a movement and those who continue to share those experiences can lead the movement with any measure of credibility. Other people can have a Spiritual relationship (bond in essence) with anything they cannot directly experience.

However, if people feel they could dismiss the underlying reason a movement started/resurrected then they are dismissing the keys to rise in it spiritually.

Rastafari in essence is a spiritual thing, Rastafari as a movement is a Black liberation struggle and Rastafari lacking the understanding of the spiritual aspects and its earthly movement is strictly cosmetic/fashionable.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Princess Tracey on May 03, 2003, 07:18:52 PM
Reasonings that reveal light and illuminations that compell one to respond in kind..thank you Ayinde...for you speak from a human depth and spiritual essence that I can relate to and respond to in kind, with an abiding mutual tone of respect...

I am therefore willing to engage in a reasoning with you, because you FIRSTLY respect me as a spiritual human being connected and interwoven into all of life's and I being an integral part of the whole...neither one over the other.

therefore...I can drop my defenses...come to the table...and reason.  

Can I tell you how much I appreciate that you seek not to rub my face in the past transgressions of my ancestors, but rather HELP me to explore the conditions that created it in the first place...where it has brought us...and how it might be possible to work TOGETHER to help change the mindset that gave rise to it's ignorant inception!!  I therefore become WILLING to LOOK at myself, and SEE the effects that are made manifest both through my actions.. or the lack thereof.

I have observed there to be alot of assumptions about alot people being thrown around on this board ( mostly on the general board ) about why people are even here at this Rastafari Speaks site...and that goes for both black and white!  Perhaps it is just me...but I feel that I can only speak for MYSELF and NOT for entire race of people. After all...there are so many dynamics that go into creating HOW a person comes to view the world in which he lives..who am I to even BEGIN to say what might motivate another!!!

Certainly, there most definately are generalizations that can be made with regards to historical references, patterns of behaviors, and legacies left behind in the aftermath.  But too often, these are slung around like weapons of mass destruction...where there seems to be no fruitful forwarding.. just ranting, and utilizing vast intellectual knowledge to incriminate, discriminate, judge, and sentance guilty as charged....

what then... is the purpose being served?

Truly, may WE help GUIDE each other's reasonings into more CONSTRUCTIVE ways...HELP vocalize and recognize each of our diverse experiances and  overstandings without constantly chastising each other and gettiing into degrading downward spirialing debates that serve only to puff up our own self interested perspectives/
talk about intellectual masturbation!!

I think alot of white people on "this board" will attest to many of the grievences brought forth, and are in fact, willing to look, and try to figure out some way of dealing with the race issue constructively...otherwise...why are we here??
But I also think that the reason why you don't hear from more white people is because they have to first get past all the visceral emotions of a very complex situation. Plus, there are just some people on this board that often exude an "attack" "Us against them" mentality ...and are ready to pounce with the slightest provocation a whole host of historical facts, figures, and attrocities, to rub some deep foul stinkin shyt onto some smug white faces..

Sometimes I think it is the natural order of things for this generation of whites to serve as the whipping post for much of the justifiable anger within many of our black brothers and much has been pent much has been kept down...the time at last has now come for this mighty nation of people to rise AND CLAIM BACK IT'S STOLEN HERITAGE AND CULTURE !!!  "Africa for Africans" now finally a blessed realization that IS finally coming into fruitition.. IS being expressed...and NO longer will be muted or is a mighty river that has broken the silence of the dam that otherwise would seek to stop it's tidal flow..

my blessed beautiful black brothers and you not know...can you not feel the love and respect that many of us white brothers and sisters feel for you???  Many come to this board to learn from you, and share with you...for YOUR spirit TOUCHES US!!  You teach us such stregnth and resiliancy from your indominable SPIRITS!!!  HOW COULD WE NOT NOTICE??  Rastafari helps OPEN our eyes!!  TEACHES us a new way...a better way!!

Though much was, and is, born out of the African resistance...much also comes in the form of the "olive branch" touch, to heal, and reconcile, Jah holy children of light back together again..

My beautiful eyelightful African brothers and sisters...

I...WarriorPrincess...who stand tall and fight for truth and justice...stand at thy door and knock...who amongst you will let me in??

May we sit at thy Father's holy table...reason and learn...and partake of holy bread TOGETHER!!

fireball love

Title: 'White' Rastas should reason on racism
Post by: Jeff on May 03, 2003, 08:15:39 PM
Greetings Ayinde

Yes I, we as 'white' Rastas should Reason on 'race'-ism every-day that JAH Give.


Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Rootsie on May 03, 2003, 08:49:56 PM
Bredren Jeff and Warrior Princess makin I feel proud to be white!

Ras Ayinde the I in true Shaman/JAHman manner is pushing this to a higher level clearing a space where healing can take place. Give thanks for the I gracious generosity of spirit.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: RasIene on May 03, 2003, 10:35:11 PM
Greetings Ayinde, Ras Mandingo, Jeff, Empress_Rootsie, and Warrior Princess and Rootswoman.

Caucasions of today have gravitated to almost every so call religion, cultural philosophical movement, faith and belief.
Just as the same for Blacks. The big question is what cause each race to be drawn in that manner.

This is a philosophical question which does not really require an academic learning to answer. However, I think the very people that are asked to provide reason on their Afrocentric belief in Rastafari are in fact seeking answer themselves by their subscription to its philosophy.

Blacks have conducted great atrocities on  to their own people in ways that cause many other Blacks on the outside to ask why? especially when they are themselves Black and should overstand suffering from a Black perspective.

Man people now follow Jesus Christ and yet they do not step or forward as Jesus did while he trod earth. For example, as we are told that Christ was poor, humble and often asked the rich to abandon their riches and follow him. How many will abandon their riches for some poorer than them.

Caucasion right now are followers about Rasta and not necessarily of Rastafari. It is obvious that there is a searching not necessarily for Rastafari but a livity so unknown-perhaps to all people that follow Philosophical Religion.

If my father beats my brother constantly that sores result over his body and then ask my brother to wash his feet. Who should I pose my questions to my brother or my father? and If I do what would be the answer I am seeking?

I have always admire how the American Muslims have spelt out in their paper, "What the Muslims want" and then they list what they want. I often said, how simple and clear they have made their point to any one. Now what kind of want do they have? is it one to be fill or is it one just to make a point of what they are about.

Now I and I question is, What cacausion Rastas want? It would be interesting if we could have that out in the air.

Selassie I.


Title: Re: 'White' Rastas should reason on racism
Post by: Jeff on May 03, 2003, 11:31:04 PM
Greetings RasIene

I cannot speak for other Japhet Rasta, but I personally don't 'want' anything but to Live Good, however I can. I can not help what happened in I Life, I cannot explain how I started sighting Haile Selassie and RastafarI, Rasta just came into I Life when I was a youth, and it has had a Serious impact ever since, you know? How can I Reason that in a 'logical' fashion? This is where JAH has brought I today. I try and do I best, and so here I Am, what can WE do? That is what I want to Know, because I am Up for suggestions, serious.


Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Bantu_Kelani on May 04, 2003, 12:27:44 AM
What notable contribution do white 'rastas' bring to the rastafari movement and what positive deeds do they bring to the BLACK race worlwide ? What have they done to alleviate our misery and oppression of those of other oppressed around the globe?? Adopting our religion, culture and fashion have always been their habit and too often to pervert it. IMO few white 'rastas' mean good though they do nothing or almost nothing to change things, so their 'one love', 'peace and unity' rethoric means NOTHING! They should not be told or asked what to do to help the Black race, if they really mean to do it then THEY SHOULD DO IT! The majority white 'rastas' are phony anyway. They are NOT interesting in the depth of Rastafari its awesome Spirituality, the AFRICAN uplift, self-relience and pride. They are just interested in the the superficial part of it: reggea, ganja and dreads. Rastafari is another way for them to rebel agaisn't their people or something to feel COOL or whatever hypocrisy they have in their mind...
I personally don't believe a white man or white woman can claim AFRICA to be ZION!  Because if it was for them, so then what would be Europe, the U.S, Russia or wherever lthey may live? Their land, their 'beloved' countries would be second after Africa?? How can they put their land, their people and themselves second?? I've never seen in my lifetime a white person put him or herself second, and it would never happen! Why do they not stick with their own culture or religion? Why do they always have to copy or take from us? Rastafari was one of our greatest tool of INDEPENDANCE, now it's (almost) not that anymore. What else do we have left in this world? They are everywhere. They control EVERYTHING! Since white (fake) rastas have been taking over Rastafari IMO Rastafari has less and less meaning and Black (true) rastas are having less and LESS.. .

I know this post will offend many, especially white 'rastas' but I spoke my mind. No everything we read, hear or LIVE is pleasant,  I can relate to that EVERYDAY! I even don't know if someone will respond to it. I do not care eventually..I spoke my mind that's all.

May JAH be our Guide to real FREEDOM.  MAy H.I.M protect those who suffer!


Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Bantu_Kelani on May 04, 2003, 01:43:55 AM
One more thing ..white 'rastas' claim to 'love' African men and women. If they 'love' us so much why I never heard of white rastas being arrested, tortured or murdered for our Race and our cause like it is systematic for our BLACK Leaders and prophets. Talks are just talks, without action they mean nothing! Of course I'm talking of white 'rastas' in general, but they are part of a white family, of a white society, of a Eurocentric dominated world. For the action of an individual to be significant it has to also be done in general by the Mass! If the Mass does not do it, if the general does not do it then it has not real impact on the single individual! So if white 'ratas' love us so much and really mean to change things for ALL OF US BLACKS then they have to PROVE IT in general, in Mass, WORLDWIDE! They surely know what the black Race and oppressed people needs to get economical and political EQUALITY, JUSTICE, INDEPENDENCE and DIGNITY back! We've been crying it since the very FIRST DAY their ancestors started wreaking havoc in the whole world. I repeat if they really mean what they say then they should prove it!! Certainly THE WISDOM AND POWER OF JAH WILL INSPIRE AND GUIDE THEM TO DO COMPASSIONATE DEEDS!



Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ayinde on May 04, 2003, 04:58:19 PM
You are articulating the feelings of many Africans.

These issues are critically important if people truly wish to learn from the 'Black Ones'. They can come to the table but cannot learn essential truths if they are still of the impression that they are somehow superior to where their help is coming through. In that case they will not position themselves to learn but instead their presence will be an imposition on the process.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ayinde on May 05, 2003, 04:06:30 AM
Given that the only place where diverse people can have real identity is in the essence of things, then it is there we should be working towards fostering unity/oneness. When this is achieved on that common plateau then it is far easier to translate what is learnt there into actions here on earth.  

This is a way out of this earthly quagmire but it is only available to those who choose conscious development. This allows for a higher level of reasoning, in, with and among our true selves.

This common ground in the essence of things can be perceived and lived within. It is the inside of life that most people are out or touch with. It is the inside that is yet to consciously guide the outside. It is the side that is in each person but yet to be re-discovered by most. It allows for a higher level of reasonable discourses and actions where the only rules are those set in the indisputable laws of nature that can be reasonably discerned.

People of all races can choose the conscious world starting from within their selves, which illuminates all paths on earth as well as the heavens. Here reasoning is pure and communication takes place on multiple levels at the same time. Here individual selves accelerate on the basis of their character and not earthly possessions. Here consciousness, conduct and clarity of reasoning are the only means to quality actions.  Here people can commune with the inner Universe and travel its broad range of interconnected ideas and events. Here the essence of history is crystallized and made clear. Herein lies the past, the present and the future. Here is the real home. Many are called but few are chosen only because few choose to take up the challenge to go within.  

Of course, consciousness has many levels, but with no manmade rules, it is fair to all irrespective of race, social standing, age, sex, and all other physical 'abnormalities'. Here people can reason together without fragile egos, and truths are blissfully sweet.  

I am suggesting to those who are interested in pure truth and justice that they pursue conscious development. Conscious development clears the way for decisive actions and the realization of one love, not in mere words but in the full expressions of oneself.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Princess Tracey on May 05, 2003, 10:23:34 AM
bredda Ayinde...when you speak such words of illuminated light such as these...I cannot begin to tell you how powerful is the force that literally smashes the head, the center of my soul, like 200 lb missiles...literally! (((BLAM !!!! )))

These words are CHANGING me!  I am crying, bawling (!!)..
great heaves of emotional tidal waves crest at the embankments of my well gaurded protective walls, and spew out of almost every is these walls that keep me bound, and from my true essence...yet these walls cannot withstand the awsome  power of this mighty illuminated storm that turns and churns the burning life essence within, offering the power to BUST DOWN DEM WALLS!!!

I stand in the middle of di eye, and ask that ALL of this wall that needs not be... be BUSTED down...smashed into smitherines...washed out to sea !!  Let me see who I am truly meant to be, created authentically, for a purpose and a reasonto serve something greater than me!

...bring it on

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 05, 2003, 12:33:14 PM
Give thanks to all for this reasoning :D

Certainly, denying is most frequently a waste of time, space and energy. For me, it look like the solution to overstanding among different people is respectfull reasoning and inclusion.

I know it's hard to feel includent when one is always excluded, but two wrong can't make one right, isn't it :) Inclusion is the way to oneness and righteousness.

How can one talk about something and at the same time say that it doen's exist? Naturally, racism is an urgent and most deep topic to be reasonied. Tha't why it looks heavy or difficult to be reasoned on.

I though a lot this weekend about this topic and what came to my mind was:

1- It seems that the main worry from the African Idrens and Sistrens is if the white (or other colours) ones would mislead Rastafari in their inteventions, when engaging this trod. Are them going to distorce Rastafari, are them going to use and abuse it? Can africans let them steel this precious treasure that still stand for African liberation?

This seems to be a very fair question. But is it possible to generalize or do we have differences among whites and whites? How can we identify who have honest intentions and who have evil, destructive and degenerative ideas? I guess the answer is the fire of reasoning that reveal the hidden intentions and perceptions of people.

2- The argument from the non-black ones is that they see Rasta as a way to turn themselves into better human beeings.

I guess this is something we can always check, the intentions of people. Like Ayinde said, Rastafari will mean something to Africans and something else to non-africans, naturally. The ones who can feel the African trod to the fullness are no one but themselves, isn't it?

If there's a place for all at Rasta (presuming), there must be a different agenda to each? (meaning this can be possible).

If non-blacks see Rasta as a spiritual livity to uprise themselves as better human beeing (meaning their own culture is uncapable of doing so) is this disrespectfull to the Africans who originated this movement?

If Rasta becomes international, and helps turning this world better to all races (human beeings) is it bad? Or the worry is if the essence of the movement will be disrespected? Rasta will never stop from beeing an african liberating struggle, but if it can stimulate and inspire others to move to higher hights, is it bad (providing that it's not distorced or disrespected)?

Regarding the topic what can white rastas add to rastafari, if they become supporters of this aim and if they see this opportunity to repent their styles and attitudes, also increasing their awereness and respect by the African struggle isn't this already something good?

One last point, if the race reasoning helps to get us even closer, it will be fullfiling it's function; otherwise will be uselless as it will only enlarge the division between people.

United we stand divided we fall.

Is there enough space for all in this earth?

Please, I have no ofensive intentions.

I overstand a lot of Africans are with reason not trusting the intention of white ones, for their past history, but there are no two individuals the same. Above all, we are all children odf the most high and once we can become aware of that, and we work to correct our sins and to improve us human beeings, we are on the way to righteousness...and with respect we can work out the differences and unity by the similarites.

Of course, if this trod is originally African, African have the right to say: this is our house and we don't want you here, wich is fair enough and others would have to go and look for their place under the sua. But is this the intention?

I know the first step in the agenda is reorganizing the individual leves, organize at home, and then spread it. So, I guess the question is, wheter black or white, who are respecting Rasta and who's not?

If a white eprson is not open to study the own history, to face the consequences of it, and to feel ashamed by that, and stop to think if is still forwardind this style, and how to correct it... then this person is coming to Rasta for some kind od fashion...otherwise...Rasta is beeing efficient when it can manage to respectfully present facts not known of felt by everybody, to shake people's counciousness and bring this topic to light...helping changing people's councience, change the world by changing the way people live, think, feel and act.

That's what I have for now. I hope I could help enlarging this reasoning.

Give thanks to all and give thanks for life.

Please, if anyone felt I was disrespectfull or vague and not objective, or did useless points, please show me.

I'm one who's always looking to correct I own mind, self and atitude. The worst person is the one who is rigid and wont correct the own points. The one who can't see the own vanity or mistakes is one that can't be trusted.

Much respect to all,

Ras Mandingo Jahson.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: c-spot_rasta on May 05, 2003, 06:10:44 PM
hi im a white rasta and i dont like your sayin that we just want to do the fashion and dont want to do nothin to help fight against racism i just joined this forum so i dont no where the topics on racism are but id b glad to participate in them and i will do what i can to fight racism not just between black and white but all other races as well but it is so hard were i am bcuz i know no ohter rastas around me to help me and its hard to know where to start but if there are n e rastas in the calgary area i would love to meet with you mabey we could organize somthin

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: c-spot_rasta on May 05, 2003, 06:24:48 PM
o ya one more thing if u want us to participate in discussions on racism then dont act like we dont belong

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: livelyup on May 05, 2003, 10:08:23 PM
Greetings all,

it would seem that i meet the essential criteria to post on this topic, being white and a rasta (with, or without inverted commas), and havng been largely silent on this issue, particularly on the main board.

Firstly some explanations are in order. My general absence from the debates on racism are not an indication of my lack of concern for the issue, but a reflection for the way that discussions about race tend to be carried out on the general board. They, in my opinion, very quickly end up in brawling and personal insult. I do not percieve this as being productive, so have not chosen to take part. it is only really now that I am beginning to overstand some of the unforseen consequences of this policy. Silence was not intended to be equal to unconcern, bt i can see how it may be taken as such.

So, for the record, here is livelyup's overstanding of the relationship of race issues to the role of white people in rasta. I would ask those reading to bear in mind that i live a considerable distance from africa or america, and that the issues relating to race that we face here are slightly different, and probably more related to the situation of the native americans or carib peoples.

I honestly believ that it is impossible for white people to overstand themselves and their relationship with the rest of the world without first coming to terms with what has happened to the black people of the world at the hands of our culture. To cut a potentially long story short, without doing this, and trying to in some way atone for the horrors that have occured, i do not believe it is possible for white people to understand the magnitude of the deception and brainwashment that has been occuring through history. Without coming to terms with the scope of babylon you will not be able to free yourself from it. Without freedom from babylon you will just be another slave to the machine, a fate from which even white skin cannot save you.

There is clearly much more detail that I can elaborate on, and I would be interested to know what others think is the best way to achieve a measure of personal reparations for the wrongs that have been done, particularly given the natural tendancy of white people to try and take over anything they touch. How can we be involved and take more of a back seat role?

Love and life

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Bantu_Kelani on May 06, 2003, 12:44:37 AM
I would like to thank all my Black Brothers and Sisters and all the white people on this board who take the time to participate in this crucial discussion. Brother Ayinde be Blessed for starting it. Your awesome wit and Knowledge is showing!!

Let's not fool ourselves, RASTAFARI it's about the relieve  and betterment of BLACK PEOPLE! Then it's about other people of color also oppressed who mostly live in the third world. ARE WHITE PEOPLE  OPPRESSED? Are their Civilizations and Traditions destroyed and ridiculized? Are their land taken from them and  used for the wealth of others? Are they humiliated and reduced to beg? NO they are not. Their Nation are the the most powerful on earth! Their Culture is strengthened and the MAJORITY of their people are the wealthiest on earth while most of world crawl under abject Poverty!

BLACK PEOPLE and people in the third world ARE THE ONES WHO SUFFER! RASTAFARI is about them! Rastafari is FOR THEM! IMO, the white 'rastas' "Unity", "One Love" talk is a clever way to DILLUTE the real aim of RASTAFARI which is to SMASH (hard) BABYLON and its EVIL System of Oppression and Exploitation led by you know who.. If white 'rastas' truly mean to  be RASTAFARiANS they MUST SMASH Babylon not with words but with ACTION it's essential! They must WORK hard (like we do) to try to get African People RIGHTS and equal POWER. They MUST CONSTANTLY talk to their Kin (like we do) about RACISM and INJUSTICE, backing it up with contemporary proofs and Historical FACTS! They must CLEANSE the brainwash minds of their people and of other people by  relentlessly  teaching them to quit Babylon  greediness and selfishness  ways to only be compassionate, altruist and humble!  They MUST protest, march and join  PAN-AFRICANIST organisations. Any one as long they work efficiently for the betterment of BLACK PEOPLE! They MUST be productive and create busisnesses to help the Black community by employing them and by helping them to create busisnesses themselves. They MUST PREACH and TEACH with vision and DETERMINATION all the time, everywhere! But do they do that? No. they prefer copy us vainly instead of  trodding THE PATH OF Real STRUGGLE for the JUSTICE and RISE of Black people!

Despite what white 'rastas' say, despite all the knowledge they have gained by  studying us and  imitating us they would NEVER feel our daily PAIN , our humiliation, our unhopefulness anyway! They can cut their beards and their locks  and go back to their normal lives anytime but us we will NEVER be able to change the color of our skin! Their non experience of our Oppression will never make them valuable Warriors for our Struggle anyway. Only the one who has been whipped for 500 years feel the PAIN have the accumulated RAGE to REBEL and fight! The One who stayed on the side watching can only feel sorry, he or she will never have the courage nor the WILL to rebel and fight! Because the scars and PAIN are not burning his or her skin and never will!

My words reflect the feeling of MANY BLACK Brothers and Sisters out there. White 'rastas' should know if we do not say it front of them we certainly think it in the inside. As long as the hypocritical white 'rastas' behaviour remain, so will remain our distrust for them! Unless they prove to be efficient and  ACTIVE for our struggle and the one of people of color around the word, we will always take them for who they really are LIARS and Deceivers.  

I said it before I'm talking about the behaviour of white 'rastas' in general. However I want to believe there are few white people (rastas or not)  courageously fighting for us and changing things for us... But WHO ARE THEY and WHERE ARE THEY??



Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Bantu_Kelani on May 06, 2003, 02:02:33 AM
o ya one more thing if u want us to participate in discussions on racism then dont act like we dont belong

No matter what anybody says if you claim to be Rasta, so be CONFIDENT and KNOW you do belong in this discussion, in this messageboard and in Rastafari!

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ayinde on May 06, 2003, 05:37:03 AM
Africans who have already experienced the humiliation by what appears to be White superiority and arrogance are close to realizing something big, only when they get a proper perspective on what is behind this arrogance.

Whites do not genuinely believe that they are superior to anyone. It is a deep sense of loss and disconnectedness from greatness that is behind their general insecurities.

This façade of superiority is a way to hide deep fears. Fears of what may happen if and when victims of ‘their’ abuses get the upper hand. Fear of not being able to proudly look back into the past and get a genuine feeling of the continuity of life and its accomplishments. This is the reason that alongside ‘their’ savagery there is the destruction of the symbols of more indigenous cultures. They do not feel their connectedness to these cultures and as such feel a sense of shame for having not developed the very ideas that they exploit today. There is this ongoing effort to possess and claim all that is visibly good and herald them as symbols of their own greatness.

It is only a fearful people who would allow their leaders to stay at great distances and rain bombs on other people. Fearful people lie, steal, kill, and dominate others.

Today, whites can come out of these doldrums if they are prepared to surrender to a better discipline. Rasta can offer this to Whites alongside giving the necessary relief to Blacks who need basic material comforts in order to get the breathing space to work on themselves.

It is certainly not easy for a White person to come to a Black institution to look for help. Their whole world is tugging them away from this. But truth is a powerful attraction to people who know they are victims of a system although they benefit from its privileges.

So I am not dismayed that Whites are drawn to African institutions, as addressing issues from an African point of view can bring relief to all people. But the order is very important. People should realize that in everything there is an intrinsic order that allows for a harmonious flow of relief to everyone.

The two sides of Rasta can coexist and bring relief to all. One side is spiritual and the other material. It is the spiritual side that should be of interest to Blacks, Whites and all others, and yes, it will always be open to all because it is in this spirituality we share a common identity.

The material side is supposed to be about bringing relief to those most affected by the false white supremist system and as such their focus should be on supporting Africans who are making the effort to help themselves. The key word is support and not lead.

It is also important that people understand that I am offering analyses based on my experiences and I am in no way trying to tell others what they must or must not do.

People are still free to do as they will.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Bantu_Kelani on May 06, 2003, 06:52:21 AM
Your comments and analyses are indeed appreciated Brother Ayinde!

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: exiled on May 06, 2003, 07:31:28 AM
greetings to all from deep in the dirty south..

Stating first...that i am not a learn-ed man but simply one who continues a lifelong search in any and all realms for dat illusive..Truth.
I have read the reasonings here an although some were difficult for me to follow ,i would like to add my perspective..
keeping in mind that it is from my life ex-periences that i draw an that as many would tell you.. i normally allow poetic ex-pression to bring out the thoughts and feelings that reside in my i find it difficult to truly say what i want to convey in "regular" writings..but this attempt i will make..

Racism is reality.. an to i is THE most pressing problem in the world today.And..has been since my birth some 47 years ago.
For me to deny to deny all that my life ex-perience has taught me and to deny Reality..The fact that the vast majority of white folks do not care to shed the covers of Racial supremacy's  illusions , rages the fire..within all aspects of my being.So has it will it be.

I have read the many perspectives here.And i do truthfully understand what most are saying.At least i think i do.Yet my Soul wonders how many white brothers an sisters who come here do truly understand what the black brother...and sister...and child , goes thru every waking moment of their lives.Not just in Africa..but the world over.I am sure that many read or study or see the least the blatant acts of racism that are sometimes caught in one realm or another.It is easy to talk about the past an dismiss it it as.."i wasn't wasn't me..i am not my ancestors"..and so on..But the Truth of the matter is the matter of the Truth.RACISM flourishes today ! Albeit seemingly more subtle to some..but Jah give us ears ta hear an eyes ta we must hear an we must see...

...tell ya what i know ..not what i think , not what i have heard...not what i have read..Black man goes to court.. racism has it's say.Po-lice come a callin in the Black neighborhood..racism has it's say.Black Children go to school...racism has it's say.Black person goes to the doctor..or worse the emergency room..racism has it's say.Black person goes huntin a job..racism has it's say.Black Woman tries to rise up..racism has it's say , in a double kinda way.Sometimes subtley..quietly..sometimes wide -open but..always in every realm in every aspect of survivin this physical world..racism STILL has it's say.So we say..why?yeah man..why ? Did the laws change but the people's hearts remain the same? Seh..give in to them a little so we don't look so barbarian..but still we will con--trol.The powers that be have spent hundreds of years con-trolling by any an all means and still they will ..unless the hearts of men ,the Souls of men are changed..Revolution of the Soul yeah....and i-and-I say that racism is still the most potent weapon they carry within their arsenal...deny my reality but still it is my reality.. what we do..pick up the gun? what makes sense when it's a thousand to one?so what we do..preach One Love..Unity?Preach it yeah.but first we got to LIVE IT !An in my eyes for white folks to live means doin ALL that is within each ones power to right a wrong.Not just any wrong.But the most horrendous wrong this world has ever known.Racism! An to start white folks must realize that everything does NOT belong to them.The past cannot be changed.Some will say we must all forgive and forget..Forget ?!..Millions of murders, rapes,attempted genocide.How in Jah's name can any forget,especially with the perpetuation of the past in this iwah.No man..forgivin an forgettin..the two they mingle not.Put the images in your mind an see them as if they were right there in front of you.Children dying...Blood..beating...savage rape...human slaughter an on an tell anyone of African descent that they must forget ?..No.

Live it if you wanna know.Have you been so close to the hard core racists that the hot breath of pure hatred burns your very essence?Have you stared down the barrel of one of their guns or been slapped down for your beliefs?Have you given up on family an friends who refuse to want to see the Truth ex-posed prove your oneness with the struggle.Have you risked lon-li-ness, alienation, financial loss, physical even show that no matter the loss you are what you preach..that you will do anything to make this terrible wrong be turned to a right ..that we may all get on wid True Unity..true One Love.It will take all of this man.Risks!.an more.To even get a glimpse of what so many centuries of oppression has heaped upon Black shoulders.No wonder that distrust reigns..

i just can't see sittin behind a computer screen an sayin all will be okay if we just forget an learn to love.I Love ..every day of my life i love...deeply.And it is my Love that sustains will hear me say One Love..Jah Love an Unity.An when i say these things they are straight from my heart..but they are pleas.. pleas yuno..not realities.Not at dis time.I cry for love..for peace..for unity..but not without also crying for Truth..and for true equality for all and an end to de CRIME of racism..and also cryin to all white Brothers an Sisters who are in some stage of understand, to truly understand the plight of our African Brothers and Sisters..who every day and in every realm of life put up with them "looks of disdain" from the majority of white folks..fe what ? the color of their skin..It is the oppressed who will lead.It is up to all others to decide if they will overcome ALL prejudices..all claims to superiority an the privilege that goes with it and walk..fight..and live what they preach no matter the risks.The answers lie in the Heart and Soul of Africa..and dilution is not nor will it ever be an option...

a quick story an i will a young boy ( teenager that) i was playin baseball with a semi-pro baseball team  down here in the "way deep" south.This would have been around 1972-73 i suppose.(time flies yeah).Anyway i was the youngest on the team an the only "white" player.So..we were comin back from an out of town game an the car i was in with about 6 brothers broke down, an i mean in the middle of nowhere yuno..and it was almost dark..So..There was a big farmhouse.Remind you of a plantation an all, setting off the road a ways.All of the guys looked at each other an finally somebody said.."who's gonna go ask for help"..Not me..not me..not me...came the replies."Them white folks ain't gonna beat me down way out here in these woods."Inevitably all eyes turned to me.Let the boy go..he's white..they won't mess with him."Yeah man you go"..but the old guy(named Chines Chappel) who was drivin the car jumped in.."whoa ya' cain't send him up there" !.."why not ? they won't hurt one of their own." Old Chappel looked at all of them an said.."you send him up there an they see he's with us..they gonna kill his a*s , then call the law an say we did it"...

ears ta hear yuno..

Chappel is close to 90 now an still reminds me of the time he "saved my life" we decided to all walk down the road together.After a few miles we caught a ride home on the back of a pick-up with a brother who had been to the game..

so ..apologies for makin this so if perhaps anger shows thru..but it is what i see and have seen thru my life.truly difficult for me to put it in the words i want to..But again..each one must do ALL that they can to be a part of this overcoming..some will be able to do more..some less..

One Love yes..
Unity yes..
but every scar must be healed and payed for...from the physical to the Spiritual..

and racism must be fought down in every realm by all who profess to be genuine in their commitment to to African Liberation..for the two are One..

an i cannot at this time claim that title of "Rasta"  though i know that until i crossed the path of The Light of Blackness..i knew nothing..i give thanks to Almighty Jah..

as i see it..


ex ....

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ras Mandingo on May 06, 2003, 11:59:23 AM
AAAHHHH!!! Give thanks for this reasoning!!!

Give thannks Ayinde for your words :D

You managed to put in words a lot of what I myself wanted to say ;)

And Give thanks for your story Exiled!!!

Trully a blessing to have the opportunity of beeing here, fortunatelly getting the light of truths and rights!!!

Give thanks for life,

Give thanks to all as one,

One Love/One Aim/One Destiny


Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ras_Joe on May 06, 2003, 12:42:44 PM
Peace and Blessings to All,

   I have not responded to this reasoning, but I must say I am growing from the information that is being posted. Continue this reasoning as I seek to build and grow.

Jah Bless,
Ras Joe

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: c-spot_rasta on May 06, 2003, 06:16:46 PM
SisKelani in response to what you said i would b happy to take action an fight babylon but like i said b4 im missing 2 things people to help me (i cant find n e other rastas around were i live an ive bin searchin almost a year) and knowing were to get started/experience. If you could help me i will proove your belief that there r some white rastas trying to help.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Ayinde on May 07, 2003, 04:25:58 AM
I am humbly intervening here.

You do not need to be among others to start doing your part. All you need to do is learn from the reasonings and try setting a better example. Your feedback is always welcomed. It is the little good things that each one does daily that adds up to a collective work.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: jaymz on May 11, 2003, 09:06:55 AM
hey all im new to this board so firstly jus want ta say hi. I was readin some of the messages about white rastas and i really jus want ta say that we're all part of one body. We all were created by Jah. In my VIEW whites are no different to blacks (sorry to use that language if it offends people). What is makin me worried is that Rastafari is about love and peace and, because of race, these aims are being contradicted. how can some people be accepted and some not when we're all part of one body?
This is what the problem is; not only with Rasta, but with the whole world. If we were all the same color, would things be any different?! Surely we would be able to find another way to become prejudiced against another type of person (like one with blue eyes and one with brown eyes?!) surely, we must be able to accept that we are all form one body?!
A belief is a belief and it surely cannot matter about something as stupid as the color of a person's skin. It's what is in your head, not what color the skin is. If you truly accept Rasta, what is the difference between a black man and a white man?!
I know that white rastas offend black rastas because of history, but what happened to forgiveness?! It is also not true to say that all whites took advantage of the black race. A select few cannot account for the entire white population.
Anyway, i've spent long enough writin this, so im gonna pen off now.
Hopefully the world will change for the better, but to be honest, it doesnt look likely with war being a regular part of today's life. All we can do is speak out against the evils of life and embrace wat is good.
have yourselves a good day,

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Rootsie on May 11, 2003, 05:48:51 PM
dear jaymz,
greetings. You said 'Rastas are about love and peace...', and I agree but based on the rest of your reasoning I wish to ask, so what do 'Love' and 'Peace' mean to you? Does Love mean we don't talk about difficult subjects? Does Love mean I don't look at all the goodies my white skin buy me at the expense of most of the bredren and sistren on this earth? Does Love mean I don't care about Justice? Does Love mean telling my black Idrens 'Hey I personally didn't do anything to you so why can't you just get over it?' You see how disrespectful this is, denying another person's LIVED daily reality.
Among the congregation of Rastafari is JUST where I and I can and must reason dynamically on race. People must KNOW tha history before the New can reveal.
No Peace comes unaccompanied by Truth, and to know the truth ones must be willing to look at history and how it plays out in the HERE and NOW. I know you are not suggesting that race-ism is a thing of the past. This site is a rich source for many strands of crucial history.
You can't just silence a necessary conversation by holding up your hand and saying, 'Peace and Love'. If Peace and Love is what we want, we trod the Path, extremely difficult and yet in Truth effortless (now There's a paradox for you!) that allows for the manifestation of Peace and Love. First in ourselves, and then shared in relation with our Idrens.
How big is JAH? That's exactly how big Love is. Most of what we humans call 'love' is about the mistaken idea that we are lacking and incomplete, and that we NEED something to deal with the pain of that. The reasoning thread on insecurity might be helpful here. Love is not a marketplace, where we get what we think we need from somebody we can trade something we have for it. Love is the flowing dynamic principal of life.
I don't wish to scold you here or discourage you from looking into what our black Idrens are expressing. I hope you will wish to join in the conversation. There is much wisdom and blessing to be had here. It's when we can struggle with these issues with mutual respect and love for Truth that we can manifest the difficult radiance of LOVE! On the real, and not simply with words.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: c-spot_rasta on May 12, 2003, 11:26:05 AM

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: jaymz on May 12, 2003, 01:31:25 PM
dear rootsie,
thanx for the reply. to me "love and peace" mean the love between all people on our earth as brothers and sisters and consequently the eternal bliss that we can get from not fighting with each other. Sorry if im not explaining myself very well by the way!

"Does Love mean telling my black Idrens 'Hey I personally didn't do anything to you so why can't you just get over it?"

No Love does not mean that I personally didn't do anything to you so you should get over it..What i feel is that if we constantly hold these things against each other then we will NEVER get along and live our lives in harmony as we SHOULD be doing. In the early days, Rastas were discriminated against by their OWN people, so it is okay for them to become Rastas? Many the original Rastas have not held this against these ignorants. Why do they choose to forgive some rather than others? It's a fair point to say that the Whites originally commited worse crimes against the Black race, but like i said earlier...if we all continue to hold things against people (this does not just have to apply to race here), the discriminations will simply go round in circles for ever more. You catch my drift?
I'm not sayin that the Black Rastas should immediately drop what theyre doing and forgive the Whites, but the troubles are never going to sort themselves out by themselves. How can they?! Somehow, co-operation is needed from both sides, as it's totally unfair to ask the discriminated to forgive and forget. However, how can an apology be made by the discriminators when things like this are still goin on today?!
Racism isn't going to be suddenly stopped, but those who aren't discriminating shouldnt be seen as devils and be frowned upon.
If one could cast justice on the discriminators of history, they should but this will be decided upon by Jah. If a man accepts Jah and has lived his/her life trying to teach people to get along and live peacefully, should s/he be frowned upon because of the color of his skin or what some Whites had done to another race?
I admit, the Black race don't have to forgive the Whites for what they did to their ancestors. i for one feel disgusted at what crimes these people committed. If my apology would account for the whole white race, that would be great wouldnt it! Unfortunately it wont work like that, so if we can just spread the word of love, maybe one day we will accept the concept of "one blood" and get along like we once might have done. (can you tell of a time when there was ACTUAL peace?!!)
anyway, i've probably rambled on long enough by now. I hope you've found something of interest in here!
have fun with your days..make the most of them.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: kristine on May 12, 2003, 10:50:43 PM
Jamyz...I will try and break it down for you to overstand why your onelove theory is sweet but unrealistic..

A group of 20 people...4 are out and out racist kkk all the way...14 are covert racists identified as those who don't think about race as it just doesn't affect their white life...theirs is one where contact with other races is minimal and superficial...they smile alot and are unwilling to engage beyond condescending superficiality often mimicking ideas of diversity...a onelove kinda guy/gal..demanding that all should be forgiven after all it wasn't me..not ever bothering to reach the other 18 to try to help them see the error in their ignorant thinking but only reaching out to the one ethnic one in the group...where is the justice and equality in that...cause thats about reality to what the odds are that the peace is a two way street and remember the ethnic one still has to live in the world with the other 18...when the balance changes and 18 come good maybe things will change..

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: c-spot_rasta on May 13, 2003, 05:58:11 PM
im not sure i get wat ur sayin r u sayin that 18/20 of them will b white racists 1 will b a wite person preaching but not practicing and 1 will be a minority?

if this is what tou are sayin i disagree completely but b4 i give my reasons to disagree tell me if ive got it right first.and im only in grade nine and not to smart compared to most people on this board so you might have to draw it out.

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: kristine on May 13, 2003, 07:25:14 PM
Almost..4 are identifiable racists..14 are so blind by whitewash indoctrination they are not even aware they are racists and the remaining one wants to embrace a livity without recognizing the elements if that one through whatever means necessary showed at least 17 of the 18 a better way of embracing all people would s/he be really embracing and living onelove?At which point the one holdout would then become the to use your definition "minority" all can come good to the ONE remaining...the number 20 is arbitrary..the change must come within first..learn to recognize the subtle racist attitude ingrained...with concious awareness..

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: c-spot_rasta on May 14, 2003, 09:44:48 PM
ahh i see so u r not saying that no one white person will try to make  ne difference ur sayin that they have to decide if they will and its not like the world or n e thing its a group of 20 white people cuz thats were i was confused because in school i remembered we learned (and im not sure if i got this right) that if the world was a hundred ppl (this is how they tried to explaine it in percents to little kids) 48 would b asian, 14 wood b american (north and south) 20 would b european and 18 would be african

Title: Re: White 'Rastas' should reason on racism
Post by: Bantu_Kelani on May 15, 2003, 04:43:49 AM
 jaymz are you purposely acting ignorant to claim that true Rastafarians (AfriKans) are prejudicial against white based on "what your ancestors have done to ours YESTERDAY??". In what world do you live? White STILL OPPRESSESS and DESTROY Blacks TODAY in 2003 by supporting and backing corrupt dictators and brutal regimes in our Nations; with their unequal trade, FMI, World Bank to starve us; with their heavy militarisation which has only purpose to wage wars to our poor Nations incapable of defending themselves; inception, creation of unknown diseases etc..

Don't think if Blacks are still oppress and suffering under hardship and misery TODAY in every country of the globe it's because of our inferiority or our good WILL. Whites TODAY still unleash evil plots to destroy us by brainwashing us/ YOU, dividing us with money, power and WARS and all cited above.

With all of that and your ignorance and arrogance you still want Rastafarians to embrace you/them? Whites infiltrate every place we are, every of our movement only to destroy us! Whites are already making a mockery of Rastafarism. They sell Babylonien records with nasty lyrics sounding  a little bit exotic and call it reggae..

Title: How I Benefit From White Privilege
Post by: Rose on May 16, 2003, 04:05:24 AM
By Laura Douglas,
Date: March 24, 2001

As a white woman who's been thinking about how I benefit from white privilege, I see that so much of it consists not only of what I do get to feel and experience but of what I am privileged not to have to think about or experience.

For example, it looks to me as though a cornerstone of white privilege is simply not having to think about race, not having to think about my color and how people are going to respond to me because of it. Given my living circumstances, I could easily go through an entire day and have absolutely nothing to remind me that the subject of racism exists--even though I may walk past several Latinos on my way to work, buy a paper from an Asian man, and talk to the Black teller as I make a deposit at the bank. To come in contact with persons of color is not the same as being aware that racism is still a raging problem in this country. The ball is in my court about whether I'm going to think about it or not, how much I'm going to think about it, etc.

A person of color does not have this choice. To live and to function in this society is to be forced to think about race and racism whether one wants to or not.

In this article, I've attempted to write as deeply as I could about white privilege as I specifically experience and benefit from it. This is not about all white people, or even all white women, because I believe there are important differences based on our individual personalities and how we tend to interact with other people, our size, how we look, what our living circumstances are, including how isolated in white surroundings we are, etc. (This is also going to be rather revealing about me as a person, which I feel a little embarrassed about, but I don't know how to do this any other way!) So here is what I've seen so far:

1. I go through life pretty much expecting that of course people are going to like me--at least not dislike or reject me--unless I do something which causes them to be against me. This is the opposite of what too often people of color have to go through: they have to operate on the basis that someone may automatically be against them because of their ethnicity unless they can prove they are OK--not like the rest of "them".

2. I can go around being my gregarious, outgoing self, smiling at people, talking to strangers, and find that my friendly overtures are usually welcomed. I go through life feeling free to pretty much do as I please in a relaxed way, a white woman in a white world--even when there are persons of other ethnicities around. I don't feel I have to "watch myself" to make sure I don't behave in a way that may offend someone. I don't have to reign myself in because people are probably going to feel suspiciously "What's she up to; why is she so friendly?" or resentfully "She sure is uppity; who does she think she is, just taking it upon herself to start talking to me like that?"

3. Related to this, I can go just about anywhere I need to and feel that of course my presence there will be looked on with favor and I'll be welcome. I don't have to feel that people are merely tolerating my existence in their midst, that they'd prefer I weren't there among them.

4. I expect to be dealt with respectfully by strangers. When I'm treated in a way that, unfortunately, most persons of color, no matter who they are, have to be prepared to be treated at one time or another--some fairly frequently--I'm usually quite surprised and outraged.

5. If another member of the dominant society does treat me disrespectfully--including treating me like I don't exist--I don't have to go through the emotional wear and tear of trying to figure out whether there was a racist element to it or not. I know it was about me directly, or that this must be how they tend to treat all people, or that they're having a bad day as such. Whatever it's about, it isn't about my color.

6. I have the luxury of living all my life in the dominant society where the accepted norms are what I grew up with, am familiar with from birth, so they all come naturally to me and I can fall into them as easily as breathing.

7. Even though I am no more intelligent than most persons of color--and am sure I'm less intelligent than many--to another white person I may sound more intelligent because my normal speech patterns are the patterns of the dominant society. I speak in a way that is associated with intelligence. My entire life I've had the "advantage" of hearing all around me the accepted way of speaking which gets one ahead in this world and, therefore, it is my natural way of talking. (And in as much as I also picked up aspects of a deep Southern accent from an African American woman who took care of me from when I was a few months old, I was also re-trained not to speak like her, but to speak the way all the white people around me did. I was put into speech classes in the second grade to try to erase all traces of that accent.)

8. People expect me to be well-spoken, and they take it in stride if I express myself fluently. I don't have to hear someone say with surprise, "My goodness, how articulate you are!" The same with my writing: when a person says they like something I wrote, it isn't accompanied by amazement that I was capable of such a thing.

9. As to school, I went through the educational system being taught by teachers who expected me to do well, and who pushed me to do even better. I never felt a teacher had written me off as a waste of time, or believed I wasn't really going to go anywhere with my education anyway so why bother with me. I always felt they assumed I would attend college.

10. I never face the awkward situation of being the director of the department who, because of my skin color, is mistaken for the secretary, or of being the professor at the university who is assumed to be the teaching assistant--or any number of other such predicaments. I don't have to deal with the question of how to work out my own emotions about that, or figure out how to behave so that the person who made the mistake isn't so embarrassed that it impedes what we need to accomplish together.

11. When I'm going to be meeting people for the first time, socially or as to work, I'm never worried about how they're going to take it when they see I'm white. I don't have to be in situations, like on the phone, where I wonder if the person I'm talking to knows my color and what will be their response if and when they realize I'm white; will they treat me differently and with less respect?

12. I go home at night to a world that is essentially the same world I work in. I don't have to know how to get along both in my own sub-culture and in the dominant culture at the same time. I don't have to constantly figure out how to negotiate the two and the going back and forth between them.

13. If I want, I can pretty much live my life among other white people. Though I can chose to do so if I want, I am not forced, in order to make a living and to buy the things I need, to be in situations where just about everyone there is of a different ethnicity, culture or nationality than I am, situations where I feel I stick out like a soar thumb because of my color.

14. I can say "our country" and not "this country". I have felt my whole life that this is my country, and it never even occurred to me that anyone born here could feel differently, feel that they're what amounts to a foreigner living in a country that's not really theirs, even though they're called citizens. Because I've never had to experience it, I don't think I can even grasp the feeling people of color had being disenfranchised in the last election. I have the basic idea, but this still doesn't mean I really know the feeling.

15. When I decide how to style my hair, what clothing I want to wear, I don't have to try to play down the essence of what I am to try to get along and advance in the dominant society. I've never had the problem of "I'd better not look too Eurocentric or I might not be able to keep my job!"

16. I can dress poorly, look like hell and not have to worry that I'll be mistaken for a derelict or a criminal. In the fairly affluent neighborhood where my husband and I live, I occasionally go out to take care of some errand with my hair a mess (we're talking major bad hair day), no make up, wearing something really lousy, and I still don't have to be concerned that people will take me for a homeless person and try to give me a money or food.

17. I also know that my facial features, my type of hair, the shape of my body parts are pretty much this society's accepted standard, seen as reasonably attractive by most people. I have never felt even briefly, let alone as a constant thing in life, that my features, hair, and some body characteristics are seen by their very nature as ugly because of their European quality.

18. I can blend in, get lost in the crowd so to speak, when I want to because I have a face and body type that are, on the whole, fairly similar to most others around me. I can also stand out when I want to. If I need to assert myself about something, lodge a complaint and get some attention from a store manager, for instance, I don't have to go through the humiliating ordeal of being sloughed off and ignored, made invisible in some way.

19. There aren't a lot of negative stereotypes of others of my ethnicity which I have to constantly contend with, and that might stand in the way of a person seeing me for who I am. Though certainly there are negative gender stereotypes about women, such as that we all get PMS, are not so good at math or science, etc., these things are nowhere near what persons of color have to endure. I don't have to be worried about people assuming I'm stupid, low class, over-sexed, and so forth because that's what "they" think "we" all are.

20. As a white woman, I can exhibit some of the characteristics that have been made into stereotypes about persons of color and no one thinks anything in particular of it, good or bad! For example, in a restaurant/bar full of white people I can laugh and carry on in a fairly rowdy manner with other whites without customers at other tables getting offended and thinking we're loud and uncouth because of our race. I can also get out on the dance floor and, because I studied dance, express myself well in time to the music, and no one thinks "She's Black so she's got rhythm; they all do."

21. At a job interview, I don't have to go through the excruciating "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation where I have to try not to appear stupid or incompetent in any way (knowing every moment that they are ready to pounce on and magnify the tiniest slip)--while also trying to make sure not to appear too smart, as smart as the interviewer, because then they could be angry and resentful and not hire me either since they had expected to be able to feel superior to me!

22. Speaking of job interviews, when I write on an application form that I've never been arrested or incarcerated, of course they never question that--in fact, I can only imagine how shocked they'd be if I did write yes to either! I've never experienced what I've heard described by African American men: the awful realization that the interviewer doesn't believe you so they keep bringing the discussion back to it to try to get you to admit you were lying and that you really do have a record.

23. As to arrests and the lack thereof, to put it bluntly, the only reason I don't have a record is the color of my skin. In my late teens I had a serious drug problem, and I both consumed and sold controlled substances of many kinds. All over this country there are persons of color who are doing 30 years and more for what I did and walked away Scot free. Among other things, this means that when I stopped using drugs I truly was able to leave my past behind and start afresh. I was not faced, for the rest of my life, with the grueling task of figuring out how in hell I would ever be able to live down my former mistakes and go on to earn an adequate, ethical living with my record dragging me down at every turn.

24. In general I go through my life operating on the basic premise that people are going to trust me, not that on the slightest provocation--or even no provocation--they will be suspicious of me. I am very aware that because of how I look--my skin color being a major aspect of that, along with the fact I'm female and fairly petite--I can go places and get away with doing things that even a white male can't because I appear so unthreatening.

A. For example, when I climbed over a garden fence to use a building's garden hose to water a dying tree on the street, I was consciously thinking "I can do this because I'm white and a woman and no one is going to question me"--and they didn't.

B. In stores where you aren't supposed to try clothes on over your own, I know I can get away with it (and do) because I'm white and look very middle class. I can expect the people working there to look the other way, whereas I'm not sure they would if I were a woman of color.

C. There are all kinds of things I know I can get away with because I'm white, like many years ago I used to eat cookies from open cookie packages at the supermarket. I knew I wasn't going to be accused--and I never was, not even once--of opening the package myself. I can shop and do things in a somewhat irregular fashion and not be suspected of shoplifting which, as we all know, is certainly not the case with persons of color.

D. When I'm out on the street and need a bathroom, I'm very conscious of my white privilege. I have literally said to myself "I am now going to exercise my white privilege" as I enter a restaurant and purposely give forth the impression that of course I'm there as a customer so no one should question me as I simply head for the bathroom and that's that!

E. I can walk up to persons on the street and ask for directions without their feeling suspicious that maybe I have an ulterior motive. I am ashamed to say that this can still, at times, be my first gut-reaction when a woman who is not white and speaks with an accent comes up to me and shows me a piece of paper with an address which she asks me to help her find. Though this has never been the case, I can still be afraid that while I'm trying to read what's on the paper or looking around for a street number, she might pick my pocket or something. The very attitude that I can still occasionally have in meeting another woman, I don't worry about being met with myself.

F. I can approach people unexpectedly from behind, be practically on top of them in a tiny building entrance, or at the last moment jump into an elevator with them and not have to read fear in their eyes when they see me. Even if someone's first split-second response when I suddenly appear is fear, as soon as it registers that it's me they relax; I have never seen a person grow more frightened--just as I've never had anything even remotely resembling the experience of observing a woman clutch her purse closer as she sees me coming towards her.

25. If anything happens to me on the street--if I were to become ill or trip and fall down, for example--I can be relatively sure that the people around me will try to help. They won't feel that maybe there is something wrong with me, that I'm on drugs or drunk or up to no good and they should keep their distance. Just in general, I can go through my life expecting to be taken seriously and for people to be cooperative and helpful.

26. I also live in relative sureness about the safety of my husband. I don't have to worry that he might stop to make a phone call in the "wrong" neighborhood and get attacked as some African American men have been, by a gang of whites, or that he may be mistaken for someone else and beaten or killed by the police since, after all, "they all look alike."

27. Recently, when my husband and I had a miscommunication and he still wasn't home by 1:00 AM on a week-night when he was usually home by 9:00 PM, I got so worried I called a police precinct. Even as I was grateful for their courteousness, I was aware that they may have been so nice because I sounded white and well educated. I have my doubts about whether I would have been met so patiently and helpfully if I had sounded clearly other than white or spoke with an accent.

28. I can call the police with little fear that I may end up being their victim.

29. I can easily access basic news about things of particular interest to me and my community. I don't have to find special avenues to get information about the things of specific relevance to my people because the mainstream press and media either don't report on them or report on them from a flagrantly biased slant.

30. Until recent years, I went around with the self-assured feeling that pretty much all of what is considered the important art of the world--what is taught as the great literature, paintings, music, etc.--are by and about people who were a lot like me. I read my favorite novelists such as Henry James, Balzac, and Dickens, and didn't even notice that practically every character was white, and that they were about a way of life that was familiar to me but that may not have been so familiar to persons of another culture.

31. Without realizing it, I went through my life with the feeling that essentially I was looking "them" over and deciding whether to let persons of color into my life. It never occurred to me that maybe I should be thinking about how I was going to prove I deserved to be let into their lives! I expected that if I decided to have to do with them, of course they should be very happy about that and welcoming.

32. My sense of white privilege also extended beyond myself to other white people. For instance, I used to think that African American persons weren't nearly grateful enough to the white people who came down South and fought along side them during the civil rights movement. I felt that of course Black persons should have been nothing but grateful and I didn't ask whether there might be more to it than meets the eye. Because all of us human beings can be prone to ingratitude, there likely is some kernel of truth to this criticism of African Americans; however, I see now that there is also a great deal to question about how we white persons work with Black persons. There can be such a tangle of good and bad motives as we do some useful things but with such a paternalistic and/or patronizing attitude that it is very difficult for a Black person to make sense of where they should be grateful and also rightly critical.

33. I'm ashamed that up until a few years ago I still felt that many Black persons were too sensitive about racism; that they sensed slights where there weren't any. What this means is that in my white omniscience (read colossal white arrogance!) I knew even better than a person of color what a racist incident was and wasn't. Boy was I wrong about that!

So these are my findings so far. I'm sure there is even more to see, and I plan to keep on looking at the subject.