Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

GENERAL => Rastafari => Topic started by: Kingston on June 16, 2003, 01:14:39 PM



Title: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: Kingston on June 16, 2003, 01:14:39 PM
Does the truest Rasta heart belong to a Man whom has decided to wear dreadlocks?

Let Us skip the discussion about those who wear dreadlocks for fashion.

At first thought I would say no, yet upon further reasoning with a youth I aquaint with I may feel that it is so.

Naturally I am not questioning any Rasta who has a true heart and does not wear dreadlocks for there are many of Us but I look at it like this.

A true Rasta wearing locks can be likend to Jesus walking with the cross in the sense that He has chosen to walk his life with this cross,  dreadlocks, upon His back.

I say this for it is the truest statement a Rasta can make.  The dreadlock is the universal indicator of the Rastaman.

A dreadlocked man shuts many of Babylon's doors for Him.  He is forced to live more independently because of this choice.

I leave this topic open as it stands.

Jah's humble servant,

..Kingston..


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: Kingston on June 18, 2003, 10:00:20 AM
I, for one, believed this topic would raise some interesting questions and new topics of discussion.

Jah's humble servant,

..Kingstion..


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: John_Pancakes on June 19, 2003, 07:54:49 AM
The early Rasta did not wear dreadlocks. Leonard Howell never had dreadlocks. The early Rastas were harassed because they became "beardsmen," growing out there beards to mimic Haile Selassie. Dreadlocks were a later addition to the movement. I don't believe locks have much to do with Rasta.


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: Ayinde on June 19, 2003, 08:39:08 AM
Rasta from the ancient point of view meant wisdom. So when our ancestors said they wish to enter the house of Rasta, they were speaking in relation to that exalted spiritual state where one attains wisdom. á

The word Rasta in relation to dreadlocks is derived from the natural way people lived especially in ancient times when they deliberately returned to the forest to recapture the laws of nature. In so doing they were isolated and without grooming so the dreadlocks developed naturally. This is quite similar to when people get lost on some deserted island and are forced to survive on their own. Sometimes these people learn to embrace nature and develop the natural skills to survive in the wild. Of course, their hair becomes wild or dreaded because they are away from grooming.

In Eithopia, the word Ras evolved to mean head and since leaders then were considered to be divine then Ras Tafari was seen as another divine leader.

In essence Rasta is about developing oneself towards self-actualization, which is the only way to attain universal wisdom.

One can do many things to symbolize that they are different. I choose to simply do my best.


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: Ras_Joe on June 19, 2003, 09:50:13 AM
Appreci-love that response.

Jah Bless Brother Ayinde


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: ROOTSWOMAN on June 19, 2003, 06:48:23 PM
Greetings,

Excellent reasonings brothah Ayinde.  I completely agree.  

We know that there Nubian Locks were worn by the Mau Mau revolutionaries.  They did not wear this Traditional Afrikan style because they were "rasta".  His Imperial Majesty didn't have them either.  Nor did Empress Menen.  What about the Saddhu (Holy Men of India) who have always traditionally worn them, not having anything to do with Ras Tafari (though the SPIRITUAL reasons are the same as Rasta).

There are plenty of WOLVES in sheepclothing wearing dreadlocks.  Plenty of hippies with them too.  Nothing whatsoever to do with Rasta.

The "locks" one wears upon their SPIRITUAL CROWN and HEART mean alot more then the hairdo.   Though they ARE our Spiritual Antennas, they are NOT SO for everyone.

ONE AFRIKAN LOVE

ROOTS



Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natty_dread on August 11, 2003, 11:29:38 AM
If not dread in hair dread in heart


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: Ark I on August 11, 2003, 01:38:08 PM
Greetings,

The way I and I live and think determines if we are trodding with Jah.  So if a man or woman live by the direction of Jah but doesn't carry dreadlocks, Jah will accept him.  But if a man or woman live contrary to Jah's direction, but carries dreadlocks, Jah will reject them. I and I righteous livity is the only thing that is necessary for Jah.

One thing I feel about dreadlocks, is that when a person accepts the way Jah has created them, they must where their locks.  Because this is how Jah designed I and I to be, and I and I should appreciLove Jah creation.

So I encourage all to accept theirselves and grow Jah locks. But I say that it is a requirement to live in Jah way.

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: JahIseek on August 15, 2003, 06:33:43 AM
Bless-ed Love to all I's.

I know that only JAH RAS TAFARI is judge so I dont judge no mon or wombmon.  However, I have taken a vow to separate I self from the rest.  To align I self with JAH, the nazarite vow (in I humble opinion) states to let the locks of I hair grow... to not even shave or cut A CORNER of it!  I NAH SHAVE NOTHIN Iyah!
But to each his own.   I keep in mind that, yes, while some Ras only had beards - IandI must remember all ah DE ORIGINAL IYAHBINGHI who had to wear them locks in tams and nevah show dem for fear of having DEM HEAD CHOP OFF!
The STRUGGLE to have dem locks IS DEEP.  It is an HONOR and PRIVILEGE to maintain I crown of GLORY and I give humble THANKS TO THE MOST HIGH... SELAH!

Bless-ed Love to all Is and Give thanks for the reasoning.

Jahseekah


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: Rootsie on August 15, 2003, 10:37:10 AM
It is far greater struggle to BE Rasta than merely to represent it on the outside.


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: JahIseek on August 15, 2003, 10:39:31 AM
ITES!

I agree ...  nuff wolves in sheeps clothing...

I chose to carry I locks... that is for I.. it may not be for others.. I no judge...

Give thanks for the reasonings.

Bless!

Jahseekah


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: QuasiFem on April 17, 2006, 03:19:08 PM
You don't afi dread 'fi be Rasta.


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 17, 2006, 06:51:18 PM
just last friday (good friday for the christians) i was in mobay at a gathering of rastafari bredrin and sistren to commemorate the 43rd annivaersary of the Coral Gardens Massacre...

in 1963 police from the coral gardens police station in st james, jamaica, went into a rasta village and slaughtered rastafari because some dreadlocks man stabbed a woman, and she died. many innocent rastas were killed...just because they were rastas and had locks. hearing the testimonies of those who survived paints the most horrid of images.

there was a time when rastas used to be locked up for having locks and uncombed beards. rastas used to have their locks cut in the streets with broken glass soda bottles as a sign of disrespect for rastafari, and to make rastas an example to all those wishing to become rastas. rastas have suffered for dreadlocks. the incients have fought for dreadlocks, they have fought for herbs, they have fought and suffered for rastafari to be where it is today. and now in this iwa, we have this:

"u don't haffi dread fi bi rasta"

fyah bun man...rastafari suffer suh ini can wear dreadlocks wid pride today. today we have sisterlocks and all sorts of fashions surrounding dreads, but there was a time when some of the same ppl wearing locks now were looking down on rastas and their locked hair. and now RASTAS want to come and say that dreadlocks aren't important within the trod of rastafari? ARE U INSANE? so the incients were beaten, jailed and killed for naught. it's so funny beacuse an elder mentioned this same thing on friday at the same gathering...rastamen grooming their beards and being ashamed of what he called the "buggie buggie"...the knotted hair that comes form not grooming ur beard. "too much pretty rastas" he said. rastas don't trim, rastas don't shave and rastas don't groom their hair, that is the trod. there are 2 things within rastafari in which their are no compromise...

1. HAILE SELASSIE IS THE ALMIGHTY ONE
2. RASTASá DO NOT TRIM, SHAVE NOR GROOM THEIR HAIR

that is the trod of rastafari. ini as rastafari suffer too much for now in this iwa a 1's to come and say, i'm a rasta but i don't grow my hair because my parents or friends will shun me, i won't be able to get a job in babylon, it's to hard for me to handle, it doesn't look cute, or whatever other reason ppl use. now, u don't have to be rasta to be black conscious or pan-afrikan or vegetarian or all the other things within rastafari, but to be rasta u MUST recognise haile selassie as the almighty one, and u must let ur hair be. and i know there are many ppl with locks who are not rastafari, but all in time. the time shall come again when wearing locks won't be a cool thing to do, and possibly make u a target...then we shall separate the lions and lionesses from the sheep.

as jah cure said...who is gonna fight the fight..


love and blessings...haile selassie lives


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 17, 2006, 07:06:32 PM
saying u don't have to dread to be rasta is like saying u don't have to praise jesus to be christian, or u dont have to accept the qu'ran to be muslim...

rastafari have locks...no compromise

it's not what makes u rasta, but as a rasta u must have it. reading the qu'ran doesn't make u muslim, but as a muslim u should read it. seeing jesus as a diety does not make u christian, but as a christian u must praise jesus.


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gnata on April 18, 2006, 12:27:42 PM
I like rastafarism because it is a black religion , ...but my concern is about the christian book ( The Bible ) to worship the Rasta God ?  Why the Bible ? There is a lot of AFricans spirituals worships , why Rastafarism does'nt take one of these african God ( Orisha for instence ) to pray , instead of taking the God of the Bible ?

Because the holly book of Rasta is the Bible , i'am thinking that Rastas are in other way Christians .
We as Blacks have a great History , if we really want a religion who look like us , we just have to pick up one of the plenty spirituals worships from the Mother land and that's it ! Using the Bible and thinking this book have on influence on us as Rasta is a big mistake ( it's my personnal view ! ) .

I'am African , and my religion is from Africa , i don't need to read the so called Holly bible or Quaran to worship my God , My actual God is perhaps the ancient God of one of my jama´can Brother who is now a Rasta !
Whites sworn on the Bible before comming to put us in slavery , i can trust people who read that book now !
Let back to Africa spiritually !


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 18, 2006, 02:59:04 PM
i totally agree. and ini, as collective youth within rastafari are trying to have these instruments of enslavement far removed from this beautiful philosophy which is rastafari. but to bring about change to rastafari, it must be done from within rastafari, by way of collective reasoning and agreement.á but rasta has no holy book (well, the holy piby was used in the older times). we read the bible because, it has some good messages within it, but it does not define rastafari. and when i speak of rastafari, i speak of the nyahbinghi, the original order of rastafari.

rastafari is about nature-al livity. it's about getting back in touch with nature. this is where the love comes from. by taking our live back to nature, we find love. the holy book of rasta is the book of life...nature. this is why i'm highly opposed to rastas who read all sorts of books, or listen reggae music and start smoking herbs and are not in a mindset of nature-al livity. i'm opposed to rastas who can't and make no effort to be able to make a wood fire (just an example). rasta is about survival away from the realms of babylon. nature provides everything for ini. this is why we don't eat meat...not because it is healthier, but because eating meat is unnatural. it goes against the very essence of rastafari.

now i'm not saying that books aren't important, but this is not what defines or make u rastafari, the amount of KNOWledge u have towards rastafari. to be rastafari u must be leading a nature-al life. should all stores adn supermarkets and markets be closed tomorrow by some strange occurence, then rastafari should not be worrying about providing his next meal. it's about self reliance and dependence upon naught but nature, still maintaining respect and love for nature and all within it. it is important to read, but this is not all to rastafari.

and people need to realise, that 9/10 reggae rasta artists, after being exposed to "superstardom" are far removed from the houses of rastafari. from my end, the only artist i see at nyahbinghi is changa changa. and i speak of artist who claim to be of the nyahbinghi order. after making that big break, they forget rastafari and they forget the houses of rastafari. u can't stay outside of rastafari and decide based on ur own selfish consciousness what rastafari should be, or is. if u want to make changes within rastafari, then u need to come within the houses of rastafari and have a collective reasoning on the matter, and we move from there. but staying outside rastafari and trynig to dictate what rastafari should be, since rastafari as it is has become a problem for u, is but a waste. and these are the kinds of people who believe "u don't haffi dread fi be rasta".

rastafari is a live. it is a eat, a speak, a think and a do. it's but a waste to claim to be rasta, yet u do the same things as them and those...the people we chant "fyah" for...babylon. rastafari is a nation, it is a culture...it is a whole new lifestyle, and we are not trying to fit into western societies. we are redefining our consciousness and preparing ourselves for repartriation. we can't go back to afrika as christian or muslims to build an AFRIKAN nation. we must go back to afrika as afrikans, free frm western mindsets. and this is why rastafari is growth. and rastafari is growing and changing and leaning more towards afrikan ideas and ideals. this is why we in the nyahbinghi house are moving away from this idea of haile sellassie being called JAH...or even GOD. HAILE SELLASSIE is the ALMIGHTY and that is it. no ALPHA and OMEGA, no JAH, no psalms nor bible prophecies...just HAILE SELLASSIE, the ALMIGHTY because black ini are saying so.

give thanks for the word sound. let afrikans be free.

love and blessings...haile sellassie i lives!

and btw, it's not rastafarianISM...it's rastafari. it's not a religion with practices and rituals and guidelines sent thru "supernatural divine orders", it is a live...a nature-al live based on the collective reasoning and consciousness of black ini.


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gnata on April 18, 2006, 06:03:55 PM
Hotep Natural Blacks !

As long as we wouldn't look back to Africa , we'll keep on worship Gods we absolutly have no ideas of, as i read you i can understand that you can really explain me what Rastafari mean .
You get confuse yourself by some explanations you don't controll .

What do you mean by :
 
Quote
but rasta has no holy book (well, the holy piby was used in the older times). we read the bible because, it has some good messages within it, but it does not define rastafari

Let face it , there is no null relation between a language and a people , and like here , there's no null relation between the holly book of another  ( the Bible ) religion and a man .
You can speak french and english as a language and think that it has no influence on you ,you can read the Bible and think , it's nothing after all ... Things don't work that way !

When you say :
Quote
rastafari is about nature-al livity. it's about getting back in touch with nature. this is where the love comes from
what is your point ? because i heard some guys practicing "feng-shui" with the same speach ...

You said :
Quote
rasta is about survival away from the realms of babylon. nature provides everything for ini. this is why we don't eat meat...not because it is healthier, but because eating meat is unnatural. it goes against the very essence of rastafari.
 
 
Babylon ? this is not an african town ... the point is there too much references in Rastafarism coming from other Cultures and civilisations that make me think , it's impossible for that Religion or way of live to escape from the people who put us in slavery .

I say it again , AFrica is our Mother land ,and we have everything there , refusing to look back is the beginning of our fall ( if it's not already done ) , the History of Jama´cans didn't began in the boat of the Whites who put us in slavery , it start in Egypt with Black Pharoahs and extend to Great EMpire of Mali , SUdan , Oyo , Bauchi , Angola , Kongo ect... and there we have had God we worship , those ones still exist, just look back , and get them instead of taking the holly book of another religion and think , it's not a problem , because it is ...

However , i like the way , Rastas respect and love all the Blacks from every part of this planet .

Hotep ,


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 18, 2006, 07:05:22 PM
so u're saying there's no truth in the bible? and because we are afrikans we shouldn't read it? u must be kidding. don't let ur disgust cloud ur better sense of reasoning.

rasta springs from slavery...there's no getting away from it. my history includes slavery...my last name was morgan, that's not afrikan. i had that last name because i am a child born out of slavery, we can't just ignore our experiences. i live in the west indies and i'm here because of slavery; i connect to afrika thru rasta.

no idea is original, everything has been here since creation and no ideas are unique to any one religion, spiritual movement, cult, culture or whatever. rasta is about natural livity. at no point did u hear me say rasta is the only culture of such kind.

babylon comes from the bible, yes, and so? ...we use it to refer to downpressive people, peoples or systems. it's just another word...like god ....or africa. u are judging rasta about being original and u refer to the motherland as "africa"? be wise my friend...


love and blessing...haile sellassie i lives!


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gnata on April 18, 2006, 09:22:24 PM
Hotep Natural Blacks ,
you asked me :
Quote
so u're saying there's no truth in the bible?
I'am absolutly sure of that , there is NO TRUTH IN THE BIBLE , if there is some me i'am Spiderman... and what is that madness to defend a book you don't know the origin ?
You are eager to read the Bible when you have no idea of what was the religion of your forefathers , that's really making sens to you  ???


You said :
Quote
my history includes slavery...my last name was morgan, that's not afrikan. i had that last name because i am a child born out of slavery, we can't just ignore our experiences. i live in the west indies and i'm here because of slavery; i connect to afrika thru rasta
.

I'am not saying to bannish the Slavery in your History it is a part of you , you got to know why Whites put us in Slavery , why they hated us that much , what i want you to understand is to try to know YOUR HISTORY first and that HISTORY didn't start during the Slavery , you have background and there are in AFrica , so before all , you got to learn it .
There is no getting away from Rasta ? why ? because you think your History start during slavery ?
Your last name is Morgan ? and you think it is the name of your forefathers ? you didn't wanna know more about you than what the slave-master gave you ? Is that what you as a descendant of Great Africans Empires you deserve ?

You said :
Quote
i connect to afrika thru rasta
Are you sure of that ? and tell me where in AFrica people are rastas ? or read the holly Bible to understand life ?
the brainwash continues my friend , if you don't understand that you are still worshipping the God of the red-neck who put us in slavery , it's gonna be hard to understand what i mean ...

You said :
 
Quote
don't let ur disgust cloud ur better sense of reasoning
.
Reasoning right is to recognise the bible like a reliable book ?  Well , it was surely a reliable book when Pope Nicholas 5 in 1441 sworn on that book to push Europeans to put us on slavery , we Blacks still don't understand what's going on , people hate us since now 500 years , do you think they have create their Holly bible for us ?
After the physical slavery , we are now experiencing the mental slavery by defending a Holly book they take to enslave our forefathers.

I say it again , Know your History first ( your whole History ) , you'll understand where you're going and realize a lot of things !

Hotep .


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 18, 2006, 09:50:18 PM
it is clear u do not understand rastafari.

the bible is of no historical value to me. when i speak of truth, i speak of message...there are many messages of high value to be learned from the bible. u assume i have no knowledge of the religion of my forefathers. u assume i'm soaked in the bible and my whole world surrounds it. u assume i don't know the origin of the bible. bredrin be still.

i don't believe my history begins with slavery, however, it is a part of my history. i never said there's no getting away from rasta, i said there's no getting away from slavery as a part of my history. i can't defeat the enemy by looking past him, i must face him.

and there are rastas in afrika by the way...and i don't mean repartriated afrikans either. afrikans born and raised on the continent are rastas, i saw one just last friday. real live afrikan saying "HAILE SELLASSIE IS THE ALMIGHTY!"...would u look at that :o

the bible is a good book...so is the qu'ran...so is the egyptian book of the dead...so is the black man of the nile and his family...so is the autobiography of emperor haile selassie...so is the philosophy and opinions of marcus garvey...so is the autobiography of malcolm x...so is until the final hour-hitler's last secretary. i refuse to be put in a box by the black man or the white man...by europe or by afrika. i am free my friend, and i read what i choose and no book written by man can ever govern my consciousness. i aim to understand everything, not jus what my ancestors thought. if there's different thinking out there, i want to know of it, and think for myself.

beauty changes to ugliness, youth to old age, fault to virtue. things do not remain the same and nothing really exists. thus, appearance and emptiness exist simultaneously. all is vanity. be of humble spirit bredrin. and KNOW that whatever it is u know, there are a million others who know it as well, and there have been billions before u who have known it.

love and blessings...haile sellassie i lives!


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: melaninmagic on April 18, 2006, 10:13:39 PM
Quote
so u're saying there's no truth in the bible?
I'am absolutly sure of that , there is NO TRUTH IN THE BIBLE , if there is some me i'am Spiderman... and what is that madness to defend a book you don't know the origin ?
You are eager to read the Bible when you have no idea of what was the religion of your forefathers , that's really making sens to you  ???


Hi, gnata,

In my opinion, irrespective of whether there is truth or not contained in the bible, the fact remains that the White leaders with their racist ideas of 'manifest destiny' have used, and are still using this book as a template for fulfilling their ultimate destiny. Their belief is that the Aryan race and any other peoples (eventual slaves) who choose to bow down to their ideas and constructed false prophecy will in the end prevail while all others will be destroyed (no doubt by them). It is no coincidence that as is read in Revelations and other chapters that in the final days there will be wars, rumors of wars and a whole cornacopia of fateful events. Take some time to listen to the Billy Graham ministries and others and I guarantee you that you are sure to pick up on this vibe. Hell! there is even one Christian ministry on public television that they call "The Intelligence News Network". No lie!

Although these things we witness do not testify to the Universal truth of the Christian bible, they do testify to the fact that these events are being orchestrated by sinister individuals such that events may coincide with what they wrote in the distant past. (He who controls the past controls the present, and he who controls the present, controls the future) This social engineering excersise was in effect since the White race seized power over the globe and initiated their campain of re-interpretting and re-printing the good book, and will not end until their version of written prophecy is fullfilled (God forbid). This is the power structure that your children and their children will HAVE to be fighting against and to this end, it is in our best interest to study this book using the THREE eyes that the supreme being gave us, since in a way, it tell us of the terrible things to come. Think about it... what better way to know your enemy than to study his manual?


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 19, 2006, 06:21:28 AM
gnata seems to be of the opinion that if something is "bad for u", u shouldn't read it, and the best way to protect urself is to hide from it or hide it from u.

you tell me where in the west there is an organized group with a stronger loud and uncompromised cry for afrika than rastafari.

haile sellassie encouraged ini to read the bible "with a CLEAN HEART AND A CLEAR CONSCIENCE" ...no premeditations, read it for what it is and lean on it for iverstanding, as u should do with all other learnings. for everything, even the seemingly most useless or oppressive piece of information, can add to our understanding of LIFE, and make u better prepared for it's journey, with all the obstacles and unsual experiences to be experienced. everything has meaning and value. as meleninmagic pointed out, the book has been used for centuries to enslave the minds of millions of people...it must be a damn good book! especially when we say the users of the book are not original thinkers, thus not the smartest cards in the pack...what a book.

love and blessings, haile selassie and empress menen live..


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gman on April 19, 2006, 09:20:42 AM
Greetings Natural Blacks,
[You ain't the Guyanese singer/deejay, is you?]
This is an interesting discussion and I generally agree with your points in it. My uncle (Rise In Uhuru Bongo Tone) had his locks sheared (20 plus years' growth) and lock up for three years in Guyana for possession of a splifftail/being a Rastaman.
I wouldn't say it is a requirement that every Rasta be a dreadlocks though. Works count for more; one's expression of one's faith is a personal matter. I wouldn't say that (for eg.) Ayinde, Leslie (not sure if she's a dread, can't tell by the pictures) or me other "uncle" Poppa, are "not Rasta" because they don't carry knotty.
Well my question really is: what, if anything, can be said to be "common knowledge"/practice/"belief" for ALL "true" Rasta?
Obviously your point about carrying knotty is controversial, or this thread wouldn't exist.
Your other point about the divinity of H.I.M. Haile Selassie I would be less controversial. But if you're saying "the absolute and EXCLUSIVE divinity of H.I.M.", it would be more controversial, since there are Ras who sight divinity in all Africans, or all humans, or all LIFE. I agree that HAILE SELASSIE I IS DE ALMIGHTY... The Might and Power of the Trinity is how we see the Almighty power manifested. Proton neutron and electron, solid liquid gas. Heat Air Water, Man Womban Child.
In my personal (ongoing) journey to Rastafari, I started out as a youth with a lot of respect and admiration for the Rastas in my own family, and those I would see around me growing up, and for the word sound of Wailers, Burning Spear, Israel Vibes, Culture etc. I had trouble with the concept of Haile Selassie as the almighty though. I was checking a lot of "communist", "socialist" and "anarchist" ideas as a teenager, and beginning to consider myself an "anarchist" (which I still do to an extent... not saying I subscribe to everything that is called "anarchism", but I find my thinking closer to that than to the other political "isms" out there.) I pretty much bought into the idea of Haile Selassie as a dicatator and a member of a ruling elite, and hence not someone I would really respect or try to emulate, let alone "worship."
It was back in GT (Guyana) in 93 and 94 that I got a chance to reason with more "real" Rastas (as opposed to the fundamentalist-christians-under-another-name, and the white pretenders, which was the majority of "rastas" I had been meeting in the Pacific Northwest. NOT SAYING ALL... I know some of y'all real Rastas in the NW might be reading this LOL).
That was when I really got more of a sense of who Haile I Selassie I is.
I remember one bredren "Dallo" or "Diallo" from Duncan Street, was the first man to show me that picture of H.I.M. firing a machine gun at the fascists dem, and to show me more quotes from de Man (other than "War").
More research and more meditations and I get to see that Haile Selassie I is a mystic Man. No other world leader could have pointed to the same lineage and claim the same titles as H.I.M. No other world leader visit as many areas over the whole earth, as H.I.M. No other world leader stood up for Africa at the League of Nations and prophesied Europe getting burned. I never see no other world leader photographed with his head inside a lion's mouth, and playing with a lamb. Certainly no other "deceased" world leader has been buried three times cos people can't agree which bones supposedly belong to H.I.M.
Personally I see the advent of H.I.M. Haile Selassie I as a "gateway" that open up a lot of people to their own sense of divinity and purpose as Africans. Opening up the seven seals: our two eyes, two ears, two nostrils and mouth. Signalling the downfall of Babylon and the rising up of Mount Zion I. Rastafari is a mystical movemant ahead of its time. Because fifty years ago Rastaman was considered crazy for saying "don't eat meat", now people know how a vegan diet (with properly balanced nutrients) is the healthiest and most ecologically sustainable way to eat. "Africa is the birthplace of humanity", "herbs including cannabis have many healing properties", etc. etc., all these are things Rasta has been saying for a long time, that the rest of the world is now catching up to.
At the same time I can't ignore the Oromo people when they say that they were mistreated by H.I.M. (and leaders of the Ethiopian state before and after him). Am I saying I accept what they say at face value? No, but I can't just ignore it and say "Lies! Propaganda!" without investigating further. Certainly the Ethiopian state under H.I.M. was no paradise (as H.I.M. himself was well aware). Feudalism, oppression of the poor by the rich, male oppression of womban, and domination of the Amhara ethnic group over other ethnic groups, were certainly prevalent.
I can say "HAILE SELASSIE I IS DE ALMIGHTY" meaning the might and power of the trinity is how we sight/experience "de almighty"... without having to agree with every single thing that the Man who bore that title did or said (or is reputed to have done or said).
Thoughts?


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gnata on April 19, 2006, 10:09:17 AM
Hotep Brothers Natural Blacks & Melaninmagic.

This is a post from a Sister Bantu Kelani , it explain what i excatly wanna say :
source:http://www.africaspeaks.com/kelani/en/22112003.html

Quote
Before the MAAFA (THE 'NEGROID' AFRICAN ENSLAVEMENT PROCESS), Colonization and Imperialism, us 'Negroid' Africans were practicing our own indigenous spiritual systems as is taught in divinity schools, biblical texts as allegories. We were the only one group of humans on this planet who actually lived and practiced rituals and beliefs depicted in the Bible, but have never read the Books.

JAH was KATONDA in Uganda, MUSIKI in Zimbabwe, NZAMBI MPUNGU in Angola, MWIN in Burkina Faso, AUSAR-AUSET, DJEHUTY, PTAH-MA'AT in Kemet (so called Egypt), RANGE in Kenya, OLUDUMARE-OLORUN-Ifa for the the Yoruba, KLE with the Bambara and the list goes on ad infinitum .... We had rituals, ceremonies, holy days, which gave reverence to the CREATOR-the Indescribable as well as to our Ancestors and those yet to be born. We were a holistic people when the barbaric, brutish, non-spiritual, thieves whatever you wish to name them, European Caucasoids came... They destroyed our Natural way of life and continue to do what the hateful Arabs had done and continue to do. They gave us alien Gods, enslaved our African minds that made us docile and passive, laughed at us further separating us from the True-CREATOR that is Perfection in our Image venerated in our own way!

Our people have then been trained to react to EMOTIONAL themes, forced to internalize alleged History of mythical chosen people...But it is time to rise above unoriginal theologies and research our True History, which is far beyond the Hebrew-Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions. Male chauvinistic Murder imperialistic cults have proven to be tools for our pacification. The framework of these beliefs prevents our 'Negroid' African minds complete development and reconnection with the dynamism of the Universe.

-WE MUST RETURN TO OUR ORIGINAL WAYS OF VENERATION IF THE POWERS OF THE UNIVERSE ARE EVER TO BE IN OUR FAVOR AGAIN!!!

The PROBLEM with modern 'Negroid' or Blacks is that we are still looking outside of ourselves to find GOD that does not represent us spiritually!
Quote
And black Hebrews, black Christians or Muslims are on the defensive when this is brought to their attention.
These religions came by conquers and racism was used to further their aims! These religions use excuses to convert us the world over. Our ancestors had perfect spirituality before the conquerors. I can honestly say our forefathers and mothers wouldn't have chosen these Male Chauvinist Murder cults if it wasn't because of invasions and slavery. This is the issue Dr. John Henrik Clarke posed as he cried, when are we as a people going to come to grips with what most of us have as a God was not of our choosing, and we have taken on the traits of the oppressor, and their Gods.

From Kemet to Songhay, from CONGO Empire to ZULU, there is so much more than the bible as myths. And even if they were not so, why uphold lies?

When you PRAY or read that Book ( the Bible )  just remember every 'Negroid' African slaves the Church captured, raped and lynched in the 'GOOD SHIP JESUS' in 1619. Amen!


We don't need to read that book to ugrade our soul or understand something new , if you knew your History you wouldn't find soomething new in the Bible your forefathers don't already know.
AFrica have been chopped by western in small parts to conquert us and distroy us ,
Quote
the first thing Europeans brought to us was their "Holly Bible" to confuse our fathers in their original faith
, with guns and Bibles they tore our bobies and our beliefs appart , today even in Africa you can find people killing their neighbour just because he is Muslim or Christian ...The slavemaster give us their cruals and violent alien Gods , so we get more violent to show that we desserve to go to "their paradise" . We got to stop runing after their Book , we don't need that ...

You said :
Quote
read the bible "with a CLEAN HEART AND A CLEAR CONSCIENCE"

Well it is not so simple , you can't read a Book like that and forget about his roots and thinking that it doesn't influence you , either you can't speak english all your life thinking that language haven't any influence on you , you can't practicing a religion or way of life , using the holly book of another religion thinking that religion have no influence on you .
If we had been enslaved by Japanese we will be now Rastas and read "with a CLEAN HEART AND A CLEAR CONSCIENCE" the holly book of Shinto´sm , and if we had been enslaved by Indian we will be now Rasta and read "with a CLEAN HEART AND A CLEAR CONSCIENCE" the Bagavad-gita ( the holly book of Hindu´sm ) ect... in fact we will be now reading the book of our oppressors and pretend it is not a problem , wake up brothers  open your eyes  !  

You said :
Quote
He who controls the past controls the present, and he who controls the present, controls the future
Apparently He who controlled our past , still controll our future that's why we can't get rid of the Bible .

You said :
Quote
you tell me where in the west there is an organized group with a stronger loud and uncompromised cry for afrika than rastafari.
For sure i prefer a Black Rasta , than a Black Christian or a Black Muslim , but you have some road still to make to reach your true values , don't stop in the middle of the way , there no in between here .
Know your History first Brothers  .

Hotep.


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 19, 2006, 03:40:31 PM
rastafari is growing...i've repeated that in this topic and many others. are u saying u can't read a book and listen to other opinions, irregardless of how unorignal they are, and not be influenced by them? are u saying the concept of an open mind is foreign to u? it seems as if u do not understand...THE BIBLE IS NOT A HOLY BOOK TO ME. it's just another book man; i live in jamaica, i've never been to afrika, i can't afford it. i don't have everyday access to original afrikan writings, if i did, i'd read them as well.

u find any nyahbinghi man and brnig some reasoning to him about the bible, the first thing he'll say is, "bun bible!", yet now and then, he may read it. the bible is of no historical value to me, but lessons of truth are without boundaries...truth in book A is the same as truth in book B. truth is deeper than the writing before ur eyes, or the fancy stories surrounding writings, it's the message within. truth is iniversial, i read, i think, i find sense, or i find nonsense. i don't hang on to the every word of any human, black or white, because all humans are but my equal. with the same mental abilities as i, so my final thinknig stance come from my own inner reasoning. quoting bob marley: "no man can mek any law to govern ini, cause ini a man too, ini can mek ini own laws"

we don't need the bible, i agree. and as soon as there is a replacement for it widely available, then i'll throw yet another bible into a fire. i see ur reasoning, and i iverstand ur frustration. but it just seems like limited thinking to me, to ban any book because it has been oppressive...i want to know what it is about this book that has made it have such a mighty impact upon the shape of the world. mental slavery enforced by black ppl is no better than mental slavery enforced by white ppl, i refuse to be put into any box. EXTENSIVE reading is fundamental. i don't read the bible religiously every morning or at any frequency even close to that, but it is a book i may read every once in a very long while. how many times have i said (or maybe u haven't seen it) that rastafari as it is today (NYAHBINGHI RASTAFARI), has nothing to do with the bible, jesus or israel. this may have been the idea some years ago, but the rastafari i have come to know is moving away from that. rastafari is growth, for whatever has ceased to grow is dead.

Quote
Personally I see the advent of H.I.M. Haile Selassie I as a "gateway" that open up a lot of people to their own sense of divinity and purpose as Africans. Opening up the seven seals: our two eyes, two ears, two nostrils and mouth. Signalling the downfall of Babylon and the rising up of Mount Zion I. Rastafari is a mystical movemant ahead of its time.

well said.

no, i am not natural blacK. that yute cut his locks the other day, not sure why. i'm a youth within rastafari myself. gnata, give thanks for the reasoning my bredrin, it is from conflicting philosophies where many a good thought has sprung. the bible is not the holy book of rastafari, and tho some rastas refuse to let go of it, u must know that there are many who are working towards having this and all other non-afrikan influences and instruments of enslavement erased from the base of our consciouness.

love and blessings...haile sellassie and empress menen live!


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gnata on April 20, 2006, 02:27:30 PM
Hotep !

Natural Blacks said :
Quote
i don't have everyday access to original afrikan writings, if i did, i'd read them as well.

Well , you know what , as a Black you have the duty to know your History , and there is no excuse here , and if you can have access to internet from Jama´ca , you can easily find on internet several Black Historical sites .

Hotep .



Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 20, 2006, 04:07:43 PM
And I have been reading them..how do you think I found this site? But how reliable is the internet nowadays? Especially when I'm trying to erase 20 years of brainwashed education that was presented in so real a form.

This will be my last post in this topic. If you are questioning my committment to knowing MY-story...AFRIKA's story, then u need not question further. This reasoning was about the bible and rastafari. Whenever I read Ecclesiastes, I find truth. Do you think I credit "Ecclesiastes" for this truth? I don't, I accept the message and I move on. I don't look to the bible for knowledge of history and things gone. I know the bible's story goes back to only just about 6000 years old, I know the writings have been stolen and were recorded long before by my ancestors, but I don't have access to the writings of my ancestors. So I absorb truth wherever I find it. Again I say, truth is universal. The historicity (is this a word? I'm sure u get my point tho...) of the characters in the bible is of no significance to me, it's the message within.

Gnata, I admire your fire and your fight for all things afrikan, I'm not against you, but u need to understand that there are ppl to whom the idea of the bible being holy and "gospel" means but naught.

Love and Blessings...Haile I Lives!


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gnata on April 20, 2006, 07:19:02 PM
Hotep Natural Blacks ,

Hopefully i don't get on your nerves because it's not my point ,i'am now living in Canada , and i've seen and been tru a lot of things that make me think , it's in our benefit to be close each others as Blacks , for me there is no Jama´can , no Ha´tian , no African-american , no AFrican , there is just Black people with a same History and a same future , we must unite or die like idiots , in the eyes of others ( whites , Asians ect...) we are the same  .

I can't accept the qu'ran or The bible like reference of my wisedom , because we had some wise speaches in our culture too , i know that in Vodun or Poro ( my African worship ) The Sun , the Earth , My Father , my Mother ect.. are Gods and godheads , i would respect the earth , the trees the plants the nature , i Would respect every human being ect... with all that knowledge i don't need to carry the book of my oppressor to be brainwashed, no i won't personally .
However i respect your choice as a Rasta to read whatever book you want ( who am i to judge you anyway ), sorry again for my roughness and take care , no hard feelings 
Hotep .


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 20, 2006, 08:11:13 PM
no harm man, i took no offence.

we don't have to be uniform to be unified...one black people. love and blessings iyah...haile sellassie i lives!


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gman on April 21, 2006, 04:51:57 PM
Oy Gnata, como vai, tudo bom?
Nao estou seguro, mas acho que voce e a mesma pessoa de "assata shakur" forum... nao? Well, I can't post on that forum for another week or so due to a lil misunderstanding, but I just wanted to answer the question you asked me, since I see you here... "GT" doesn't stand for "Guyanese Thug", although I wouldn't object to being called that (depends on your definition of "thug.") G.T. is short for Georgetown, Guyana's capital city, but it is used as shorthand to refer to all of Guyana... like how Jamaicans say "JA", or East Orange,New Jersey-ans say "Illtown". Nothing more than that.
Also you mentioned AWOL magazine; you said you'd lost your copies. check http://www.objector.org  (that's from memory... I will check the link and get back to you if it's incorrect). They ought to still have some back issues. Have you ever met/corresponded with Wulidah Imarisha or Mario Africa?
Well bless up brudda and I look forward to reasoning with the I on this forum and the other one when I am allowed back on there.
P.E.A.C.E.! (Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation/ Protons and Electrons Always Cause Explosions.)


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gman on April 21, 2006, 04:58:32 PM
Sorry Gnata, I gave you the wrong link. Here's the correct one: http://awol.objector.org
This isn't only for Gnata, everyone should check out AWOL magazine, it's a really good effort put out by some sistaz and bruddaz in Philly. Encompasses a lot of stuff but the focus is on anti-militarism and political prisoners. It includes a CD with each issue and people can contribute articles and music for the CD as well (so Natural Blacks, check it out and see who from the Niyabinghi House might want to contribute.)
Bless Up People


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gman on April 21, 2006, 05:27:47 PM
I guess the back issues are sold out. I might have a few lying around: let me search though my stuff and in the next couple days I'll let you know and I could send em to you.


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: vsm on April 28, 2006, 05:49:12 PM
You points of view are corect.You know I would prefer tolive in Africa, to live like you but to be a Christian, A REAL ONE..to live like Jesus. He died for us, for all of us, because HE LOVED SO MUCH THE HUMAN BEINGS. Life in Europe is a lie, a big lie, everybody is running for money, more and more, they don'have enough !
Really, Jesus is the most important person in the History of the planet Earth, we must try to understand what HE DID FOR US ALL.
There is a country in Africa with a lor of Christians, even the president is a Christian, I don'tremember which country...
Anyway, take care of youselves and love all the persons you know, even your enemies, because it is wonderful to be a good person ! I love you all !


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on April 28, 2006, 07:08:15 PM
"...Jesus is the most important person in the History of the planet Earth"

u speak as if jesus existed... why not say HORUS is the most important person in the BLACK-story of the planet Earth?

black ppl wise...our-story and greatness far exceeds jesus christ. i don't know bout the next man, but i KNOW jesus christ hasn't done anything for me... and i don't want him to.

love and blessings ... HAILE I REIGNS


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: Kingston on April 30, 2006, 06:45:20 PM
Rasta is a strong force...

I love that this topic is still creating positive conversations a number of years after it was created.  I give thanks to all who have brought back and kept this dreaded question alive.

Yes...

..Kingston..


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: gnata on May 02, 2006, 12:00:59 PM
Hotep , 

VSM wrote :

Quote
You points of view are corect.You know I would prefer tolive in Africa, to live like you but to be a Christian, A REAL ONE..to live like Jesus. He died for us, for all of us, because HE LOVED SO MUCH THE HUMAN BEINGS. Life in Europe is a lie, a big lie, everybody is running for money, more and more, they don'have enough !
Really, Jesus is the most important person in the History of the planet Earth, we must try to understand what HE DID FOR US ALL.
There is a country in Africa with a lor of Christians, even the president is a Christian, I don'tremember which country...
Anyway, take care of youselves and love all the persons you know, even your enemies, because it is wonderful to be a good person ! I love you all !

What a funny message ! i've read some nasty and crazy stuff but this one is the my best ...
And then Mr. VSM wanna live like Jesus ,why not like Buddah or like Mahomet ?  i don't know what is really going wrong with Black folks ? Aren't we tired of being worshipping those ancients Slavemaster's Gods ?
My mean question here is : What thoses Gods gave us since the end of slavery or Appartheid or Colonization that some Rasta or African religion can't gave us ?
Are we less discrinimiated or less hated as Blacks in this world because we are Christian , muslims or Bouddist ?
Should we recall those who , like donkeys,  keep on following the spirituals paths of others Peoples to stop that madness !
If you're black and you don't have "infortunatly" an access to some black spiritualities , be a Rasta or be something like a Vodun or somethong else which is Black, do something but stop worshipping aliens Gods you don't know the origins!

Blacks folks are the most alienated people on earth ( y'all know that ) ,the reasons are :  we don't like ourselves that's why we bleach our skin to look whiter ( see the hideous Michael Jackson ) , we distroy our hair to look more like White folks , we sytematically reject our ancient African religion and accept all Western garbagge to be a naughty so-called "Civilized" , shame on us !

VSM don't wanna live like Marcus Garvey , or like Lumumba or like Malcolm X but i wanna live like Jesus , he don't wanna be a Rasta or a Vodun , but he wanna be a Christian , and tomorrow he will be shy to speak english with his jama´can accent because he 'll find it's not beautifull like the brithish one, ----> shame on us !
...Who said mental slavery here ? 


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: natural blacks on May 02, 2006, 01:54:33 PM
... and tomorrow he will be shy to speak english with his jama´can accent because he 'll find it's not beautifull like the brithish one, ----> shame on us !

serious talk dat...give thanks fi the words.

i was just reasoning with a bredrin jus a few minutes before reading this page, and telling him how hard it used to be for me to pronounce my name (i recently changed my name...it was ASTOR).á my thinking is... the pronounciations in the english language (british) are so conflicting with patois, that jamaicans aren't able 8 times out of 10 to pronounce words "correctly" (of course "correctly" being the way the english would). but now u've made that point... it leaves room for more thinking eeh? serious serious tak dat my bredrin. we love that.

i've been in this "english" country for so many years, and i can't speak the language "properly". i have pronounciation "problems". i can write it as good as or maybe even better than the average english man whenever i feel to, but i couldn't speak english (still judging from the english man's standard) to save my life. and i've never had a drive to try to be able to speak english the way our prime minister would. it annoys me to hear the governor general deliver a speech... seems so fake to me.

but can we not judge it from the english man's standard? we do speak "british english" (the lanuguage of the country - jamaica). i don't know. this is why i've decided to not speak it tho, i'm not an english man nor am i trying to be. now i only use it for work purposes... for the same reason i type it here, i speak it at werk... for ease of iverstanding. kinda like a standard for communication. since english is a foreign language, i speak it as best as i can, with all the patois blends and such, and not feel ashamed. i only want to know u're understanding my expressions.

i'm not sure if it's my accent that keeps me from pronouncing the words correctly tho. but then again... i used to speak spanish... and i'm sure i wasn't pronouncing the werds "as well as" the spanish would... but i was speaking spanish, and i woudn't feel shy speaking spanish the way i did around a spaniard, because i know this is a foreign language to me. accents add to pronounciation... shudd i speak "standard english" i'd be sounding british... or just not jamaican. maybe my thinking this is the problem, nuh suh? "harley davidson" (this was the werd that brought up the convo with my bredrin) ...i pronounce this: harley davisson. i can't (more precisely, won't - under normal speech, minimal consciousness towards my pronounciations) say daviDson ...am i shy to speak english? why don't i say harley daviDson? is it because it won't sound as beautiful as the british? ...and it'll leave me feeling "backward and dark".."trying to speak english when i can't". but that is the thinking in jamaica. "patois signifies darkness and lack of exposure". so many parents beat their children for speaking patois.. "how yuh chat suh bad?! speak properly!" ...wat a joke. right now i bun out english for me. dash weh english. ini waan yadd home to learn my own languages...english is so soulless...so western. too much confusion rasta... ini want to be free.

gnata... good sound idrin.

RASTA LIVE


Title: Re: A "Dreaded" question
Post by: siger on May 11, 2006, 12:57:07 PM
Mine is a response to VSM. Sori, babe, haven't written earlier. Bin a bit busy. I have checked yo profile out, though, and i must say i am at crossroads with you on your religious tendencies.

Tis good to have faith, for what is a man without faith. It is like  a woman who goes to the well without a pot.

However, be careful, my sister, because faith in religion has led many astray. You speak of a country with lots of christians, with a 'saved' leader. I was born in that country. Uganda, we have the highest percentage christians in the whole world! Its true.

But has answered our questions. NO, rather, it has only complicated the problem. Let me explain....

Down here in Africa, we are still fighting wars of independence. Now, i was christian for 16 of my 19 yrs. You tell us to pray, i did my fair amount of praying; and i'll tell you the legenday legion of angels belongs in books.

Our problems are real. Remember that. They are not some watered up piece for the BBC morning news. Have you ever lost your dreams? For dreams are the substance of the soul, and without them we run blind.
That is Africa. WE are bound in our heads. This is real, gal.

What makes it worse is the christians. YES! The christian leaders you have just talked about. The Christian West and its dollars. They sit in their mansions built with blood money, and tell us to forgive, to pray, to give tythe while they ssuck our blood.

Let me tell you why i no longer call myself christian. Because i'm yet to meet a real christian. They are all modern day Pharisees, spitting on others, assuming to know God.

You pray if you want to. I'l go around seeking God in what i do. If i dont find him, then i might as well do the job myself.

AFRICA WILL RISE! I swear it.