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Author Topic: Religious trickery (Racism tied to Religion)  (Read 55212 times)
ryu9
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2003, 10:12:10 PM »

RasBenjamine. I am in no way advocating against the adoption and promotion of traditions native to Africa, nor am I advocating the adoption of Christianity per se, but it must be remembered that culture is always in motion; it is constantly being adopted, transferred, absorbed, exported, reformed, modified, etc.

For example, Christianity was brought to Saxony (northern Germany) by force. The Frankish king Charlemagne (768-814) waged war against the Saxons for nearly thirty years in order to expand his empire and impose Christianity on these people. Eventually, they succumbed, but by the middle of the tenth century Germans were making important contributions to Christian culture. Thus, does a “real German” reject Christianity in favor of ancient Germanic gods, despite the fact that Germans have been central to the development of Christianity (the Lutheran Reformation!) for about a thousand years?  

The cultural interchange between Egypt and Greece is similarly instructive. The earliest Greek sculptures, which have been dated to about 600 BCE, were clearly influenced by Egyptian sculpture. Yet the sculptures of fifth-century (BCE) Greece, best exemplified by “Zeus from the Sea” and “Diskobolos,” bear no sign of any Egyptian influence. Are these sculptures therefore “not Greek” or somehow artistically worthless because the Greeks had learnt the art of sculpture from the Egyptians?

Bantu-Kelani, you chastise me for not being African.

“You are not Even AFRIKAN! Why should I waste my time reasoning with someone who has NEVER felt and suffered for 500 years due to INVASIONS, ENSLAVEMENT and OPPRESSION??”

I have never “suffered for 500 years,” but then again neither has anyone else, unless they have lived for that length of time. You may have suffered indirectly from the invasions, enslavement and oppression to which you refer, but the direct connection you draw between yourself and these past events is entirely artificial. Two parallel examples may be of some use. Can contemporary Jews feel the suffering of those detained and killed in Nazi concentration camps? Do contemporary Germans or German-Americans feel the suffering of the Saxons murdered by Charlemagne, the millions of Germans massacred by Imperial, Spanish, French and Swedish armies during the Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648), or those Germans killed by the warmongering of Louis XIV (1688-1697, 1702-1713) and Napoleon (1802-1814)? No- such people can only feel this suffering by inventing it for themselves.
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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2003, 05:30:16 AM »

If you dont' this already I'm a Congolese Woman from the DRC CONGO! Do you know WHERE the DRC Congo Is located in the Globe?? Do you know the ATROCITIES that have been going on there since your savage, barbaric, brutish, hateful, non-spiritual Caucasoids/Europeans people came and DESTROYED my Country, DESTROYED our NATURAL WAY OF LIFE and CONTINUE TO DO?? Do you know about the GENOCIDES perpetuated by KING LEOPOLD II there, the BELGIAN BRUTAL COLONIZATION, PATRICE LUMUMBA'S Assassination, Western rule under MOBUTU, the INVASION by Rwanda, Burundi...the ECONOMIC EMBARGO, LAURENT KABILA'S ASSASSINATION, MASSACRES of MILLIONS of my People by BELGIUM and the WEST??

I ask again, do you know about ALL the Atrocities that have been going on in my country since your missionaries set foot in MY LAND? I HAD to leave my HOME, my Ancestral VILLAGE because of the ONGOING WAR/GENOCIDES in DRC. My family and I experienced FAMINE and depravation wandering helplessly in Tanzania, Zambia, Angola before obtaining Asylum in Europe and AmeriKKKA. I lost FRIENDS during the BRUTAL REIGN of Mobutu and L.Kabila. MILLIONS refugees like ourselves had to leave their HOMES, COUNTRY to be treated like dogs in the WEST AGAIN . DO YOU CALL my Existence a LIFE? I CALL our Lives HELL!

WE Congolese people INSIDE and OUTSIDE the country endure so MANY ILLS, so MUCH DEGRADATION so MUCH SUFFERING it's UNBEARABLE! . IT REALLY BURNS ME UP! Have you ever been so cruelly robbed of your Resources, Destroyed of your previous religions, so much HATED?? No you HAVEN'T! So don't come here TELL ME how I should FEEL and THINK, I will NEVER receive any advice form ANYONE who has never FELT and SUFFERED as much as ME and MY PEOPLE have suffered WORLDWIDE. The more I LIVE, the more I SEE, the more I READ and HEAR about the HARDSHIP and HUMILIATION we AFRIKANS experience all over the world, the more I will DENOUNCE Your People and  ACCOMPLICES -including my OWN RACE- Machinations and CORRUPT Designs to Exploit, ROB and KILL us even MORE!

I will ALWAYS CRY with Passion and Despair the REDEMPTION and FREEDOM of AFRICA and AFRICANS WORLDWIDE! We AFRIKANS have been denied our RIGHTS for for TOO LONG.  Don't have the NERVE, with your  Prejudicial MIND, to TELL ME an AFRIKAN on this RASTAFARIAN-AFROCENTRIC WEBSITE, How I shoud FEEL or THINK. Because like MANY, TOO MANY of MY PEOPLE, I do drink the SCUM of the bitter cup of Subordination, Exploitation and Slaughter EVERYDAY!  Indifference, Ingratitude is TYPICAL of Caucasians it's BLATANT in your POsts. You will NEVER understand our PAIN, NEVER! It's ONLY when you will receive the same ABUSE as We AFRIKANS that this RACE ABUSE will STOP!

FREEDOM will come through our OWN effort, through our OWN Initiative now GO AWAY HYPOCRITES!

Kelani.

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We should first show solidarity with each other. We are Africans. We are black. Our first priority is ourselves.
Ras_Joe
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2003, 06:38:56 AM »

Blessed Love Kelani,

  Love the fire that the I blazes. It is very uplifting to I and motivates I to continue to seek truth and free INI mind.

Jah Bless, Jah Bless
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Ayinde
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2003, 07:54:30 AM »

To: ryu9

'White violence on Whites' has always been the norm but they can easily reconcile their differences because they share common characteristics. Alienation from indigenous ancestry and symbolisms are common White characteristics. Annexing success and worthiness to brute force and individual material possessions are common European characteristics. These are not indigenous African values.

These were not the values of indigenous people who remained in sync with nature. Classifying Blacks as inferior and the ongoing racism is the legacy of Arab/European Imperialism and Slavery. This denies Blacks equal opportunity in a very material sense. I must say that even Whites do not get equal opportunity but most are able to get by with some measure of privileges at the expense of Africans. However the legacy of Slavery with its ongoing denial of the African reality is the cause of most world problems for the very point you made. It is also the reason Bush and company can treat Muslims with so much disrespect. You see Arabs today are now coming to grips with the real effects of racism and their subjugation of other people.

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"I have never 'suffered for 500 years,' but then again neither has anyone else, unless they have lived for that length of time."

This point alone speaks of your emotional and spiritual disconnection from out past as you really do not know that people can in a true sense identify with the sufferings of others including their ancestors and hence the real suffering continues until proper redress is made. Most Europeans do not get this point and it is part of the reason they are unable to feel the effects of their own destructive ways.

Most 'Europeans' lack empathy. This problem is not unique to Europeans. Other groups of people have worked hard to distance themselves from their ancestry, preferring to align themselves with the false values of what appears to be materialistic success (Whiteness). This is also an Arab story, which is different from how African Arabs view Islam.

Most fair skinned Arabs are racist and think nothing of the sufferings of Africans. In most Arab countries Blacks are treated with scorn. Islam has done nothing to address racism in Arab states and as such is an enemy of informed people. It does not matter what Islam preaches, once the people who are internalizing it are left without the means to identify with all of humanity from our common African ancestry, then Islam is no good to anyone especially Africans. The same holds true for Christianity and any so called religion that de-emphasizes the importance of identifying with our common African human beginnings.

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You may have suffered indirectly from the invasions, enslavement and oppression to which you refer, but the direct connection you draw between yourself and these past events is entirely artificial.

This is what real people call the product of miseducation. This statement alone reeks of a false superiority complex. You speak of indirect and direct as if you really understand the spiritual and emotional ties another person can have to their history. This is pseudo-intellectualism at its worst, which seeks to tell others how to feel and think about their own sufferings while not offering redress.

Now, you have not disproved anything Bantu Kelani has stated and in fact you have given credence to her statements by your very arrogant approach to the reasoning.

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No, I do not identify myself as a 'true Afrikan'- whatever that is.

This statement explains the delirium and arrogance with which you entered this debate for if you are confused or are unaware of what others mean by a true African then real education can begin from a search for that meaning.

This is the beginning of the Islamic stronghold in Africa.

Islam arrived in North Africa (the Maghreb) just seven years after the death of the Mohammed in 639. The 4,000 strong Arab invading forces came from Mecca under the leadership of the military ruler Amr ibn al-Asi. The Arabs were not entirely foreign to North Africa - they were well known as traders. There were also some well-established Arab communities. Within three years of arriving, the Arabs moved South, in retreat from the Byzantine fleet, to found the city of Cairo.

At the time of invasion the Christian Coptic Church was being persecuted on doctrinal grounds by the Byzantine church in Constantinople. Many Christians welcomed the Muslim forces as possible allies against Byzantium. In the long term, those that refused to convert to Islam were penalised. They had to pay high taxes and were barred or evicted from positions in government. There was periodic persecution, notably at the end of the 10th century and at the beginning of the 11th century.


Mansa Moussa: Pilgrimage of Gold

In 1312 Mansa Moussa, the most legendary of the Malian kings, came to the throne. Mansa Moussa was a devout Muslim who built magnificent mosques throughout his empire in order to spread the influences of Islam. During his reign, Timbuktu became one of the major cultural centers of not only Africa but of the entire Islamic world.  

When Mansa Moussa came to power, the Mali Empire already had firm control of the trade routes to the southern lands of gold and the northern lands of salt. Under Moussa's reign, the gold-salt trade across the Sahara came to focus ever more closely on Timbuktu. The city's wealth, like that of many towns involved in the trans-Saharan trade route, was based largely on the trade of gold, salt, ivory, kola nuts, and slaves.

Mansa Moussa expanded Mali's influence across Africa by bringing more lands under the empire's control, including the city of Timbuktu, and by enclosing a large portion of the western Sudan within a single system of trade and law. This was a huge political feat that made Moussa one of the greatest statesmen in the history of Africa. Under Moussa's patronage, the city of Timbuktu grew in wealth and prestige, and became a meeting place of the finest poets, scholars, and artists of Africa and the Middle East.  

Mansa Moussa brought the Mali Empire to the attention of the rest of the Muslim world with his famous pilgrimage to Mecca in 1324. He arrived in Cairo at the head of a huge caravan, which included 60,000 people and 80 camels carrying more than two tons of gold to be distributed among the poor. Of the 12,000 servants who accompanied the caravan, 500 carried staffs of pure gold. Moussa spent lavishly in Egypt, giving away so many gold gifts—and making gold so plentiful—that its value fell in Cairo and did not recover for a number of years!

In Cairo, the Sultan of Egypt received Moussa with great respect, as a fellow Muslim. The splendor of his caravan caused a sensation and brought Mansa Moussa and the Mali Empire fame throughout the Arab world. Mali had become so famous by the fourteenth century that it began to draw the attention of European mapmakers. In one map, produced in 1375, Moussa is shown seated on a throne in the center of West Africa, holding a nugget of gold in his right hand. historychannel.com

Some people praise Mansa Moussa but in my view he put on one of the most ignorant display of opulence that fired up Europeans to exploit Africa.

Islam has taken much from Africa and has caused tremendous hardship on many Africans. Islam, by the way it gained its stronghold in Africa and is preached, dismisses the cultural values of other people and breads a false class system, which is very similar to the European class system and racism.
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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2003, 09:03:38 AM »

Ras_Joe,

You Know I'm  GUIDED and INSPIRED by the GREAT SPIRIT of our ANCESTORS to Testify the AFROCENTRIC EXPERIENCE. YES! Their SPIRITS impel us to TESTIFY, go forward and RENEW OUR KIND! As they say "If the truth cause an offence, It is better that an offence be caused, Than that the truth be denied!"
THANKS for your ENCOURAGEMENTS and SUPPORT My KING!

--------------

AYINDE,

SPEAK FURTHER MY DEAR BROTHER FOR THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO NEED TO READ AND DISECT THE NAKED TRUTH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your POST!!
Especially OUR PEOPLE they NEED to KNOW, whether it be Christianity or ISLAM or Judaism, the three Religions have been NOTHING but MALE CHAUVINISTIC MURDER CULTS that out to MURDER AFRIKANS and take OUR RESOURCES! There was over 10,000 years of GREAT AFRICAN CIVILIZATION before the GREEKS and AFRIKANS were much MORE SPIRITUAL and had MUCH MORE INTEGRITY than what we call "running dogs today called Man! AMEN!

Kelani.




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We should first show solidarity with each other. We are Africans. We are black. Our first priority is ourselves.
Ras_Joe
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2003, 09:55:19 AM »

In reading Ayinde's and Kelani's post I want to add that the real problem with these three religions is the fact that they have produced a limited overstanding of life to it's followers.

This also takes I to the book The Tree of Life Meditation which speaks on the fact that Islam, Christianity and Judaism are in no way useful to the African Culture because it in no way supports the spiritual make up of humanity which is needed in order to have an overstanding of self and life.

You know the only way that INI people can become free is by knowing self and INI divine purpose.

You see these three religions only show humanity how to connect with their lower selves which is an incomplete overstanding of self and life.

There is no way that I self as a seeker of truth can just stop searching with such a limited overstanding that leaves I with a vacancy that must be filled.

People overstand that Rasta is more than just the Bible, Haile Sellassie and memorization of the latest reggae tunes. Rasta is from creation therefore ones must become unlimited in INI overstanding and live life the way it should be lived, divinely/spiritually.

Blessed Love,
Ras Joe
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Ayinde
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2003, 11:49:24 AM »

This in essence is an important truth and is the beginning of real self discovery.

Ras Joe, you may not know it as yet but grasping this truth if far greater that what they all offer. You will be amazed at how much more knowledge you can grasp having understood this.

Respect.
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ROOTSWOMAN
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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2003, 05:29:02 PM »

REvolutionary Afrikan Greetings,

Just wanted to BIG UP my sistah for keepin it BLACK/REAL! Big up for RELENTLESSLY DEFENDING MAMA AFRIKA/TRUTH! Big up for SMASHING DOWN ALL EURO LIES!

Big up to all Afrikan Mindz who recognize TRUTH when dem see it!

ONE AFRIKAN LOVE IVAH MORE!

ROOOOOOOOOOOOTS


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SANKOFA!
ryu
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« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2003, 04:06:55 PM »

Bantu-Kelani, I am aware of what has happened in the Congo- and I am not telling you how you should feel. The point, however, is precisely that people are free to choose how they feel. You are not obligated to empathize with any atrocities committed against any Congolese whom you did not know; only ideology- Congolese nationalism, pan-Africanism or pan-humanism- can compel you to do that. Likewise, you are free to empathize with those who have suffered elsewhere in Africa; but again, only ideology- in this case, pan-Africanism or pan-humanism, can compel you to do that. Finally, you are free to empathize with those Germans massacred during the Thirty Years’ War; but once again, only ideology- pan-humanism- can compel you to do that. Where you draw the line is left to you.

In your most recent post you make a claim similar to the one I criticized earlier: “There was over 10,000 years of GREAT AFRICAN CIVILIZATION before the GREEKS.” Substantiate this claim: provide a definition of “civilization” and present evidence demonstrating your claim to be true based upon your definition.

Also, your references to “your People,” as well as “your missionaries” and “your savage, barbaric, brutish, hateful, non-spiritual Caucasoids/Europeans” reveals your prejudices quite well. You do not even know who I am. In case you have forgotten that, read your own post from 22 June, in which you state that “I don't know who you are or what you are.” Yet you make these unwarranted references and then hypocritically suggest that I have a “Prejudicial MIND.”
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ryu
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« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2003, 04:10:23 PM »

Ayinde, you begin by making the following statements:

White violence on Whites' has always been the norm but they can easily reconcile their differences because they share common characteristics. Alienation from indigenous ancestry and symbolisms are common White characteristics. Annexing success and worthiness to brute force and individual material possessions are common European characteristics. These are not indigenous African values.

Particularly troublesome is your contention that “brute force” and the acquisition of “material possessions” are not “indigenous African values.” According to the text of the Palermo stone, the earliest surviving Egyptian historical record, the Egyptian Pharaoh Snefru (c. 2623-2589 BCE) launched a campaign against the Nubians, taking 7,000 slaves and 200,000 cattle. This same Pharaoh also campaigned against the Libyans. The Egyptians also warred among themselves, as for instance, when the kings of Heracleapolis fought the kings of Thebes. Nor was aggression unknown to the Nubians. To take one example, in 770 BCE the Nubian Kashta conquered Egypt and established the 25th dynasty. Of course, certain African nations may have been less warlike than the Nubians or Egyptians, but the generalization is unwarranted.  

I am not, as you claim, telling other people how they should feel. Read my most recent response to Bantu-Kelani. You take issue with the following statement: “I have never 'suffered for 500 years,' but then again neither has anyone else, unless they have lived for that length of time.”  

Your argument proceeds as follows:

This point alone speaks of your emotional and spiritual disconnection from out past as you really do not know that people can in a true sense identify with the sufferings of others including their ancestors and hence the real suffering continues until proper redress is made. Most Europeans do not get this point and it is part of the reason they are unable to feel the effects of their own destructive ways. Most 'Europeans' lack empathy.

My response is simple: the process of identification is both arbitrary and artificial. The Berber tribes of the Carthaginian Empire were known as the “Afarika.” Consequently, when referring to that which is now Morocco, Algeria and Libya (and that which the Greeks called “Libya”), the early Romans spoke of “Africa.” For this use of the word, see Pliny and Pomponius Mela. After Rome subdued Carthage “Africa” became a Roman province, but the boundaries of this province shifted considerably until the first century CE. From this point onwards, the province of Africa incorporated what are now Tunisia and western Libya. The province of Mauretania incorporated what is now much of Morocco and Algeria, while the province of Cyrenaica included what is now eastern Libya. There was no such thing as “Africa” or “Africans” as these things are now understood. Such modern entities were not recognized by the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Nubians, or by anyone else in ancient times. Accordingly, there is no evidence that the people then inhabiting, for instance, modern Zimbabwe, felt any connection to the sufferings of those who inhabited Lower Nubia, when that region was conquered by Egypt around 1950 BCE. Nor did they empathize with the Egyptians when the Macedonians conquered Egypt in 31 BCE. But who can blame them for failing to identify with peoples whom they did not know and by means of a concept (Africa) that was foreign to them? Thus, if being a “true Afrikan” involves respecting the traditions of ancient peoples who lived in what is now Africa, a “true Afrikan” would not feel compelled to empathize with the sufferings of others elsewhere in Africa, because to do so would be to use a concept foreign to those ancient peoples.

I am entirely baffled by your claim that I “have not disproved anything Bantu Kelani has stated.” To return to one example, how did I not refute the assertion that, "The bible's main purpose was a justification and a rationalization for the slave trade against people outside of Europe"? To take another example, demonstrate, with recourse to evidence, that Hypatia was killed because Rome wanted to attack Egyptian culture.

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Tyehimba
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« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2003, 07:17:30 PM »

Quote
Posted by: ryu Posted on: Today at 6:10pm
Ayinde, you begin by making the following statements:

White violence on Whites' has always been the norm but they can easily reconcile their differences because they share common characteristics. Alienation from indigenous ancestry and symbolisms are common White characteristics. Annexing success and worthiness to brute force and individual material possessions are common European characteristics. These are not indigenous African values.  

Particularly troublesome is your contention that “brute force” and the acquisition of “material possessions” are not “indigenous African values.”  


To Ryu: Your words speaks volumes about you: you took selected parts of ayinde and twisted them around to justify your weak arguements.Ayinde said that 'Annexing success and worthiness to brute force and individual material possessions ' are not values of indiginous African values.

Quote
Thus, if being a “true Afrikan” involves respecting the traditions of ancient peoples who lived in what is now Africa, a “true Afrikan” would not feel compelled to empathize with the sufferings of others elsewhere in Africa, because to do so would be to use a concept foreign to those ancient peoples.


Secondly the above represents a very limited understanding of ancient Afrikan traditions. Even though there may have been some cultural chauvanism existing between different ancient societies the fact remains that there was certain values and standards that were present in ancient AFrikan culture. These values include respect, justice, truth, and balance. It's not sensible to compare their attitudes towards other AFrikans  to our attitudes to Afrikans because the communication and information that we can access right now at the click of a button wasn't available then. Even so, who are you to dictate to us how we should respect our ancestors? Respecting ancestors doesn't necessarily mean that we should seek to behave exactly how they behaved.
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Ayinde
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« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2003, 09:11:34 PM »

Religion in Africa: Unity in Diversity

ABSTRACT: http://www.pbs.org/

As a whole, African religious traditions combine belief in a Supreme Being with the worship of other gods and ancestors. They use ritual and magic to communicate among human beings, nature, and the gods. In many African languages, there is no word for God, because in their tradition, every thing and every place embodies God.

"The Bamboula" from Century Magazine, 1886.

Many African religions have common tenets. They share a belief in a community of deities, the idea that ancestors serve as a way to communicate with these deities, and the belief that society as a whole is organized around values and traditions drawn from a common origin, which was created by one Supreme Being.  

The rituals practiced in many traditional African societies are considered to be stepping-stones to the ultimate goal of death and the afterlife. There are rituals that guide one through all of the transitional stages of life, such as birth, puberty, initiation into adulthood, marriage, having children, old age, death, and life after death. These rituals allow participants to know what society expects of them in the next stage of their lives.

Despite the universality of belief in a Supreme Being in Africa, formal, church-like worship of God was not widely practiced. Nevertheless, the concept of God is transcendent, and there is a popular myth, told from West Africa to the Upper Nile, which says that He or the sky, his dwelling place, was once much nearer to the earth.

In addition to the Supreme Being, Africans believe in many other spiritual entities, roughly divisible into nature spirits and ancestors. Some of them have both human and natural origins. It is said, however, that in sacrifices offered to other deities, the essence of the gift still goes to the Supreme Being.

###

While the many traditional religions of Africa do share commonalities, it is through their differences that we get a true sense of the vastness of the continent, and the diversity existing among the men, women, and children suddenly thrust together in the New World. Many of these differences center on the particularities of the Supreme Being, and the distinct characteristics attributed to Him.

The Mbuti Pygmies, who live in the forest regions of the River Congo, believe in a great, elderly being of the sky, lord of storms and rainbows, named Tore. Before hunting, he is invoked for success in finding food. The Pygmies also revere the moon, and some say that it was the moon that molded the first man, covered him with skin, and filled him with blood. The central Pygmy deity, however, is the god of the forest, who is benevolent and to whom men pay as much respect as they do their own parents.

The Bushmen and Hottentots were the original inhabitants of southern Africa, when the first Europeans arrived at the Cape. Modern Bushmen pray to celestial spirits and tell myths and legends about them. They also pay special attention to the moon, which plays significantly in their speculations about the origins of death.

In East Africa, a common name for the Supreme Being is Mulungu, a word indicating the almighty and ever-present creator. The thunder is said to be his voice, lightning is his power, and he rewards the good and punishes the wicked. From the northern Kalahari through the Congo to Tanzania, the Supreme Being is called Leza , perhaps from the root meaning, "to cherish," as he is the one who watches over people. Leza is said to live in heaven and is transcendent and incomprehensible.

Various names for the Supreme Being are encountered in West Africa. Nyambe, perhaps from a root indicating power, is used from Botswana to Cameroon and a similar appellation, Name, is found throughout West Africa. Other divine names are: Ngewo, god of the Mende people of Sierra Leone; Amma of the Dogon of Mali; Mawu of the Ewe of Abomey; Olorun of the Yoruba, Chukwu of the Ibo, and Soko of the Nupe--all of Nigeria.
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ryu
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« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2003, 10:44:14 PM »

The post is informative. My knowledge of African religious practices is weak. Do any of these cultures have sacred texts? If not, have their beliefs or theologies been recorded in modern times? Your summary was helpful, but I much prefer to read original texts as opposed to interpretations of or hearsay regarding them. I hope that my posts bear this out.  
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Ayinde
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2003, 11:40:14 PM »

Quote
This point alone speaks of your emotional and spiritual disconnection from out past as you really do not know that people can in a true sense identify with the sufferings of others including their ancestors and hence the real suffering continues until proper redress is made. Most Europeans do not get this point and it is part of the reason they are unable to feel the effects of their own destructive ways. Most 'Europeans' lack empathy.

This was your response:
Quote
My response is simple: the process of identification is both arbitrary and artificial.

This is one of your earlier comments
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No, I do not identify myself as a 'true Afrikan'- whatever that is.

This was/is my response
Quote
This statement explains the delirium and arrogance with which you entered this debate for if you are confused or are unaware of what others mean by a true African then real education can begin from a search for that meaning.

This was my other comment
Quote
White violence on Whites' has always been the norm but they can easily reconcile their differences because they share common characteristics. Alienation from indigenous ancestry and symbolisms are common White characteristics. Annexing success and worthiness to brute force and individual material possessions are common European characteristics. These are not indigenous African values.

This was your distortion
Quote
Particularly troublesome is your contention that "brute force" and the acquisition of "material possessions" are not "indigenous African values."

This explains your conduct
Quote
My knowledge of African religious practices is weak. Do any of these cultures have sacred texts? If not, have their beliefs or theologies been recorded in modern times?

My response is the same as above
Quote
This statement explains the delirium and arrogance with which you entered this debate for if you are confused or are unaware of what others mean by a true African then real education can begin from a search for that meaning.

Now I guess you may like some help here
Quote
Your summary was helpful, but I much prefer to read original texts as opposed to interpretations of or hearsay regarding them. I hope that my posts bear this out.

But SIR, you are still rude and obnoxious. You first come to an African/Rasta forum while ignorant of African cultures/spirituality and feel you can play semantics with academic data that is readily available on the Internet. You attempted to disrespect an African sister who has real experiences to go with the positions she takes.

What you prefer to read is not my concern. It is the arrogance that goes with the ignorance of African values that concerns us about how many engage African communities.

Can you not see that this conduct is exactly what the sister is speaking about?
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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2003, 01:32:31 AM »

Ayinde,

You see, ryu9 is an example of the True Mentality of white folks. A cursory glance at the things he says about the African experience proves that any objectivity he wants us to believe he has is all a front. He is not TRULY interested in debating Racial Issues. He has proved to be Arrogant and Indifferent to the TRAGEDY of Black men and women advocating Ignorance and Superiority complex that continues to be prevalent today among white people. Understanding their Mentality is key to dealing with them..

WHITE SUPREMACIST AGENDA is TRANSPARENT. I See-Through....


Kelani-

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We should first show solidarity with each other. We are Africans. We are black. Our first priority is ourselves.
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