***"Was 'narrowing' of the fight against slavery necessary to 'think' that fighting it as a system was the answer?"
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i think so. slavery was and is still is institutionalized. to fight an institution requires planning and implementing whatever
agreed on actions of the fighters/people/massess/oppressed. otherwhise
the peoples actions can easily be squashed. it took over 400 years to 'officialy' abolish the
africa slave trade. so of course individuals had to narrow their approach in determining how they
were going to engage in the liberation struggle.

I don't think your 'reason' for 'accepting the status quo' is a valid one...but I can understand wanting more detail for actual implementation... implementation can only be discussed with those actively participating.***

I specifically said narrowing wasn't necessary to THINK fighting the system was the answer, and then I specified it WAS necessary for IMPLEMENTATION(which you just reposted). What you said was therfore non-responsive.
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***"true leaders generally reason with the masses of the people" posted by ras marcus here:

http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/cgi-bin/forum/config.pl?read=84370***

Who said I was a LEADER? I never have...I'm an organizer/worker. The actual 'leaders' in Pan Africanist organizations could break down the strategies and tactics with no problem.
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***dont quite overs what you mean by suggesting that i accept the status quo. im not seeking details of anything that you engage in. but it can be reasoned that ideas pertainig to only sharing information to those that are 'actively participating' could be perceived as elitist and bouergois (sp), attributes that i a hope are contrary to your belief system; but attributes that are quite similar to those many might suggest are capitalist in nature***

Not quite Rasi... I thoroughly explained MY area of expertise, and since what you are asking for is NOT my area of expertise, I cannot expound(not just because I may something incorrectly, but also because I may divulge something 'hazardus'.) Because I am a part of an internal process, I have heard it expounded upon in great detail, but I am not proficiant enough to regurgitate it. Also, if you showed interest in joining a particular organization, I am quite sure people that would be present would have such an area of expertise. Being covert about some 'goings on' with unknown entities is called being smart, not being bourgeois.
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***++++++++++
regarding the statment by hon. krumah capitalism is slavery when solely defined from a uropean perspective. i am sure that we could find ones that might say the same thing about other economic/social system. there are african social
models that have some similarities in structure
as their uropean counterparts. the same could be reasoned on the development of a 'capital' social model that is not inherently linked to the accumalation of wealth and exploitation which are the primary consideration of the western model.***

Sabbah adressed this thoroughly. And so did I in the other threads I linked.
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***but capital can be education/economic/natural reosurces etc, which all could be used for the development of societal infrastructure. i am not advocating for either simply reasoning on the topic at hand of unity for the masses.***

Capital is accumulated via exploitation...period. Capitalism is about the accumulation of capital...therfore it MUST be based on exploitation. Period. That's how it functions(in ANY form)
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****Personally, one of my 'current' roles in organizing is part of the 'propoganda army', ideologically spreading info to the masses to politically educate, or as you call it 'spouting rhetoric '....lol. It's a natural role for me because my background is in education. But there are lawyers, doctors, economists, technicians, chemists, architects, military experts ect. ect., quite active in fullfilling their 'roles' and applying their expertise.
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if your role in the propoganda army is to spread info to the masses which entails 'fighting the system' without a framework by which to organize and lead your soldiers...you will get your troops killed and or imprisoned.
++++++++++++++****

I'm part of the PROPOGANDA ARMY, not the actually military wing. The troops of the propoganda army spread ideological PROPOGANDA to EDUCATE. The framework for organizing and leading PROPOGANDA SOLDIERS is COMPLETELY different then actual combatant military in a physical revolution. Like I stated, what you are talking about are tactics and stradegies outside of my area of extertise. i could easily break down ho to run a propoganda campaign though... You are intentionally mixing apples and oranges in an attemppt to be insulting.
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***Or are you talking about a cost/benefit analysis for the few people who manage to eat some scraps off of master's table?
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if you are suggesting the "few people" who encompass the massive of the poor people of the earth then yes.***

How the heck could the 'few' be simultaneousely 'the masses'? That is illogical, so therefore I could not be talking about that and you KNOW that.
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***there have been countless civil wars where there was revolution and hundreds of thousands died. as in most revolutions/fights against systems there is wide blood shed so a cost/benefit analysis in this scenario would be appropriate in the strategic planning of the fight.***

This I can adress because it is ideological. How many people died in any revolution(quick bleed) as compared to the elongated state of oppression(slow bleed). The lengthy state of oppression and exploitation kills more numerically, it is just appears not too because the bleed is slow and gives the ILLUSION that the numbers are smaller.

The cost benefit analysis of capitalism has been made quite apparent on this thread alone. I'm waiting for your response to what it is you 'like' about capitalism and how it has 'benefitted' African people(or non-whites in general).
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***Would you prefer to have the option/possibility under capitalism to be a rich slave while the masses continue to suffer? Some people do...
+++++++++
unfortunately many of us have that option. including you.***

I obviousely have made my choice by being against the system that allows 'rich slavery'.
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****Oh, also, just because people have no choice to currently participate or rather, have their labour exploited under this system, does not make them a capitalist. To be a capitalist on must have the accumulated CAPITOL that comes from the exploitation itself.
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exploitation is the culprit of oppression not simply 'capital.'***

Capital is accumulated STRICTLY from exploitation. It seems you either don't know how capitalism functions, or you choose to pretend you don't. It's been repeatedly explained on this thread alone.
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*****++++++++
Only the elite who own the means of production are the capitalists. Those that are oppressed and exploited under said system are not 'capitalists'.
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if someone owns a business and owns the means of production for their business but does not exploit their workers, what are they considered?
+++++++++++***

As Baba Ras Marcus showed. If buisiness owmers don't exploit their workers wages to obtai capital, and the workers own parts of the buisiness(means of production) than the are SOCIALISTS not Capitalists. The way a buisiness worker makes profit over and beyond what the workers do is wage/labour exploitation. This is not however the only way a buisiness can be owned or run. Check my link to anarchism in action for examples of WORKING models that differ.
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*** it can only be expected if you are communicating that most africans, (assumtion-based on the context of your words)"see liberation as being successful in a capitalist system, not fighting against said system;"

its necesarry if you want your propaganda to be seriously considered and not blindly followed-- it becomes necessary to elaborate on your judgement pertaning to africans liberation tactics and your perceived judement of their unwillingness to fight. ***

I SPECIFICALLY said X-TIAN Africans are indoctrinated with 'prosperity preaching' and they have issues dealing with non-X-tian Africans, for any reason, particularly liberation...not 'Most Africans'... RIF(reading is fundamental)
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***++++++++++++++
...I don't know if you do not think it is possible, or if you are basing your opinion on your mis-informed idea that one can't 'own a buisiness' outside of a capitalist system(which is highly inaccurate). Or if you are basing your opinion on a pure lack of information and investigation of other economic/political options...You can't expect to get the answers you seek by the internet.
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please detail where i stated that you cant own a business in a non capitalist system.***

You just said above in this thread that to be a cpaitalist equals being a buisiness owner.
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***we have ben communicating on the internet. you advocated for fighting against the system on the internet. why take issue with one questioning your proposition on the same format by which you initiated your communication?***

I don't have a problem with someone questioning anything. I question EVERYTHING. But like I have explained repeatedly, I have areas of expertese...The reason I said you can't get all the questions you want over the internet, is because unless you can find someone with the expertise that you are looking for over the internet, you would have to deal with REAL PEOPLE in the movement to get a more wholistic perspective.