Peace In the congo

[jemba]

It looks like Blacks around the world have to stick to their own quarters. It is obvious we are not going to become a nation for a very long time. But sooner or later an African country will have to set an example for others to follow. I always thought the Bantu brother and sisters in the united snakes of America, where those who would take the initiative.

[Oshun_Auset]

How can we overlook the situation in our own territory and rush to help another? I am very suspicious of those who do…. especially those who claim to be pro-African (maybe they’re pro continental Africa and not pro-African)

All of us should be suspicious of people that "overlook" issues facing Africans in the diaspora or at home. They can't do this and truly be Pan-Africanists.

“But as Pan-Africans we also ideologically accept that until Africa is free and unified the African personality will continue to be disrespected (oppressed and exploited) globally.”

If this (above) is the maxim of Pan-Africanism then it needs some work, because it implies again that focus should be directed at the continent and then miraculously the Diaspora would pull through.

Where did my statement say anything happens miraculously? That sounds more like religious doctrine than any type of political movement. Of course any change is going to take hard work. But if we don't have a liberated and unified home/land base. No matter how much we work in our current locals, we will never truly be in any international position of power and self determination. This is derived from the lessons Garvey, Nkrumah, and Toure(as well as many other ancestors) have given us. In my previous post I mentioned striking a balance...Why does it have to be an either or, diaspora/continental situation of focus? That is the antithesis of Pan-Africanism. But to not make having a unified and liberated African land base primary would be digging a whole in the sand.

Also, while many Pan-Africanists in the Diaspora may be aware of what happens in their own localities, “they preach education of the masses” (at least in Trinidad) but when it comes to Africa, they always wish to extract money for aid…. see the hypocrisy?

Any so called Pan-Africanists who preach monetary "Aid" when it comes to Africa and not organization and political education of the masses are hypocrites. I would also question if the ideology of their respective organization is revolutionary, or even progressive. They may be self proclaimed "Pan-Africanists"(many people use that label)....but do they have a revolutionary ideology? Many self identified Pan-Africanist organizations don't. Monetary "Aid" is just more of the same capitalist/imperialist "let's through money at the problem" B.S.  For a Pan-African organization(or individuals) to preach this about Africa gives the impression of a strong paternalistic attitude towards the continent...and calls into question their true objectives. How is that revolutionary?

[Oshun_Auset]

It looks like Blacks around the world have to stick to their own quarters. It is obvious we are not going to become a nation for a very long time. But sooner or later an African country will have to set an example for others to follow. I always thought the Bantu brother and sisters in the united snakes of America, where those who would take the initiative.

I think that would be difficult and shouldn't be the objective. Not only are we the numerical minority in the U.S. But this place is no kind of land base. It is enemy controlled territory which is rightfully someone elses land.

Nkrumah said it best(not a direct quote but close) "The liberation of Ghana is meaningless without the total liberation of Africa."

The enemy isn't self sustaining. They form multinational organizations and alliances to implement imperialism and neo-colonialism to extract what is needed from other countries. We can't work alone either. We need to be internationaly organized. IMO there are no messiah states. The initiative needs to be made by us all.

It is obvious we aren't going to achive our goals for at least a while. But if we truly have vision. We should be working towards the goal of our liberation. Reguardless of whether or not we actually get to see the results ourselves within our lifetime.

[leslie]

 Posted by: Bantu_Kelani Posted on: Today at 1:22am
I still agree with sistah Oshun Auset, if Diasporians pride themselves in African heritage, African religion, and believe that the true home and redemption of black peoples is in Africa, then I do believe that the black race would not overcome its issues excluding the concern of the African continent and continental Africans, especially those who live in, or are from, countries that are affected by conflicts and genocides…  

Posted by: leslie Posted on: Feb 23rd, 2005, 12:24pm
I agree that the global community should be sensitive to what takes place in the Congo as well as the rest of Continental Africa. But if the Pan-African community is really serious, they would try to correct the wrongs in their respective place of residence. A lot of them ignore or pay more attention to problems of Africans on the continent rather than focus on the problems of Africans in their adopted homelands. That to me is absolutely illogical!  

I do not understand why you would suggest that we in the diaspora should ignore the crises on the Continent.

Let's talk about the abominable treatment of continental children and women: their rapes, torture, forced labor, and kidnappings. You have to deal with national incidents as well as catastrophic events in Africa... if not don't call yourself a Pan-Africanist.  

Yes, we have to deal with the above. I agree unequivocally. But you seem to ignore the same evils that occur in the diaspora... If you can't emphathize with Africans outside the context of Africa then maybe you should not call yourself a Pan-Africanist!

Posted by: Bantu_Kelani Posted on: Today at 1:42am
Leslie,

Besides, the management of these sites called me to express my continental BaNtu point of views with the worldwide black population here. Now you want me to chastise the plight of continental Africans for the benefice of the world community? This idea is silly of course; if you say black people have to deal with their own countries don't be mad at me to prioritize Congo and Africa in general. I'm amazed you can act like that.


You do not understand my point! I never criticized you for your expressed concern for the people of the Congo or the rest of the continent. When did I suggest this? You can support whoever you wish. My point was that many Pan-Africanists (especially those from the Continent) believe that attention should be paid to the Continent first....there is no "balance" here as Oshun-Auset says we should attain!
What amazes me is that you have stated things that i never said. That is disturbing!

[Bantu_Kelani]

Yes, we have to deal with the above. I agree unequivocally. But you seem to ignore the same evils that occur in the diaspora... If you can't emphathize with Africans outside the context of Africa then maybe you should not call yourself a Pan-Africanist!

Why are you ignoring the many times I have posted on these boards in defense of the Haitian people and blacks in America? Why are you doing that... this is disturbing to me as well.

B.K

[leslie]

Posted by: Oshun_Auset Posted on: Today at 9:31am

Quote:"But as Pan-Africans we also ideologically accept that until Africa is free and unified the African personality will continue to be disrespected (oppressed and exploited) globally."  

If this (above) is the maxim of Pan-Africanism then it needs some work, because it implies again that focus should be directed at the continent and then miraculously the Diaspora would pull through.  

Where did my statement say anything happens miraculously?

key word: implies. Thus I am free to interpret what your statement meant to me. My point of view stands.

Posted by: Oshun_Auset Posted on: Today at 9:31am
.... In my previous post I mentioned striking a balance...Why does it have to be an either or, diaspora/continental situation of focus? That is the antithesis of Pan-Africanism. But to not make having a unified and liberated African land base primary would be digging a whole in the sand.

I don't disagree with "stiking a balance" but that is not the current situiation...that was my point!

My question to you Oshun-Auset is: if we don't create "a unified and liberated" African Diaspora simultaneous with the creation of a unified and liberated Africa, wouldn't the concept of Pan-Africanism fail? Aren't we an equally important part of the struggle? Despite all your talk of striking a balance, you still project that Africa should receive prime attention!

[Oshun_Auset]

My question to you Oshun-Auset is: if we don't create "a unified and liberated" African Diaspora simultaneous with the creation of a unified and liberated Africa, wouldn't the concept of Pan-Africanism fail? Aren't we an equally important part of the struggle? Despite all your talk of striking a balance, you still project that Africa should receive prime attention!

A United and Liberated Africa is the primary objective so that African people everywhere can be respected permanently. Part of attaining that goal is organizing(unifyiing and liberating) the diaspora. The total liberation of African people everywhere can never be permanently sustained unless our home base, Africa, is liberated and unified. IMO you are arguing over semantics.

When I say a united Africa is the objective...I mean the overall objective. But not the only objective. It is the best way to maintain the other objectives.

It's kind of like the issue of reparations. Reparations is a means to an end...but it is not "the end" in itself. Too many people mistake it as "the goal" rather than a "tool" to be used to realize the larger and final goal. So if someone asks me, "Which is the "objective"...liberation or reparations?",  I must say "liberation"...Not because I am against reparations but because I see too many people confusing reparations as the objective rather than the means to the final objective.

Liberation is "the end/final goal" of Pan-Africanism and that can be achieved by using the organization and liberation of the diaspora as a tool/means.

Revolution is a process not an event. Organizing the diaspora is the means to the end/final solution to our global circumstances. The end or final solution being our total liberation...And the culmination(or final action) of the revolutionary process being the Unification and Liberation of the continent into a United States of Africa.

We can work in our respective locals, but we must not loose sight of what the final objective is. otherwise we can gain ground in the diaspora, stop the revolutionary process, and then loose all that we achieved along the way. I Hope that explains it better.

[ptaured7]

Africa is the focus of a global attack.  The numbers alone in terms of human cost are so staggering as to make the trials of African people in the homeland seem to take precedence, not just for African people but for the world of all humans.  

Always a veil draped over Africa by design - it is not that no-body cares, it is that a massive propaganda campaign, mostly by omission of any information, mantles the world view.  Say to someone off the street, did you know that Congo is a vastly rich country? they will look at you strangely.  

Caution is suggested in being caught up in the cycle of pre-planned, scripted out wars fomented by elaborate design of opressor powers in Africa that lead to the "solution" of an "international peace keeping" (military occupation) force.  The U.N. is a military alliance for European expansion and recolonization.  The minor functionaries who do good work there are  window dressing.  Think over the years of the net result of UN foreign aid/programs and the results.  The planners are not "stupid" or "misguided".   The result is by design.  confusion, dependency, corruption and military occupation by foreign powers under the flag of global unification (read tyranny)

Koffee Anon and his son should not be excused and the trail of rot should be followed wherever it leads......regardless of race, creed, religion or national origin.  The U.N. should be looked at honestly without prejudice or favor to any "side".   The world's various military alliance structures should be identified for what they are (UN, NATO, EU, USA, etc, etc.) so that people make informed decisions, not just hopefull belief in better things to come from a flowery titled bureocracy (sp?).  

The current rapid formation of military alliances is preparation for global war.  As long as people fail to see that the UN, NATO, EU, USA, etc, are engaged in firming up these alliances under a coordinated plan, (particularly the EU), these vicious cycles of scripted conflict and occupation "solution" will just go on as it has been going on for these many centuries.  

Africa is the center of attention of the global manipulators, hence its relegation to obsucurity in the controlled media.  Their mad dreams of dominion over the planet cannot take place without African resources.

The hostage populations of the African diaspora contained in Europe and North America are insurance and pan Africanism is a threat to this insurance.  pan AFricanism woke up the world's various exploited peoples disenherited by various colonial and imperialist schemes and the desperate migration trends resulting from the destruction that ensued.

Pan Africanism is good for everyone except the elite global manipulator circuit.  Pan Africanism stimulated so many worthy discussions many years ago, brought attention to things that no one was really thinking about outside African intellectual circles and discussion.  It cross fertilized the Native American rights movement and exposed apharteid as a world wide phenomenon and policy of the monster Cecil Rhodes and his disciples who hold the highest reigns of power to this day.

Whatever the minor disagreements may be on Pan Africanism, one hopes its evolution will rapidly continue for all our sakes .

Well, you all know all this, I guess I should be writing this for some other interest group in a predator nation/alliance, since the information and change needs to happen here, to give African people breathing room, at least, in Africa and all over the world.  

Unfortunately, the official liberal left here in USA does not want to hear too much of this.  Every formula for stopping war and imperialism involves major lifestyle changes for those of us here in Babylon - good lifesytle changes, but changes nonetheless.  Driving to the party protest in your Mercedes, with wine and cheese party to follow is not going to cut it.  I should talk~!

P7

[jemba]

Blessed for you thinking as you have sparked my mind Brother@Ptaured7
In the times of sekou turre,qwume krumeh,Patrice lumumba ,azikiwe and abdel Nasser. The pan african movement was very successful in the liberation of afrika. At that time the whole of Afrika was in need of liberation.
The nubian and Arab afrikans where in need of freedom from colonial enslavement, and our brave honourable leaders fought very hard to liberate the nation. Once afrika had gained its liberation in the 1960, the pan African movement decided to change their ideology to a political organization, which responded to the needs and development of our continent. When the wall which divided Germany in two parts west and east had collapsed in the 1980s.Because of the general secretary of the republic of the Soviet Union had introduced a reformed brand of politics in his own country, which was followed by other countries that belonged to the soviet packed. Many of the afrikan countries which followed the socialism and communism ideology started to make reforms to the new world’s reality. So the former pan afrikan movement became the African united organization to integrate with the European countries for the first times. But sadly till today we still do not realise the changes in our day’s problems. So that is why we need to search for a new way of cooperating between different countries and regions within Africa. We need to realise the differences between people and countries because we have different cultures, different believes and different races. Which don’t help to build a strong united pan Africanised movement? The Arabs have different believe system to us Bantu, because of the religion and culture we do not share the same opinions. Look at the situation in? Sudan because of religions, the afrikan union is incapable of resolving our problems within sudan, that is why the united nation of America has gone to intervene in Sudan. The Arabs have a league of nation which represents their own interests. As afrikans and Arabs do not have the same objectives, they already have built a solid foundation in their turfs; we still have many minor problems toresolve. To accomplish our goals we need to be selfish and separate our selves from the Arab countries in afrika. If any pan afrikan movement still associate them selves with Muslim countries then I don’t consider them as allies.We need change for blacks only!!

[will]

Apparently this Brotha has moved on.... i wonder why??? His concern was for the on-going WAR in the CONGO.... This battle still RAGES TODAY....

Why are we no longer showing interest in it's solution?