WHY did Eurpean/White people do this to the world?

[iyah360]

One observation . . .

Today, many of the private corporations in the banking/ insurance, etc. industries and the families involved had a start as ACTIVE hands in the trans-atlantic slave trade.

Those who had their root in the trans-atlantic slave trade are those who today, as some like to put it are, "at the top of the food chain."

The two "elect" running for the president of the US are heirs to business, family and secret society dynasties which had a huge and active role in the slave trade.

[Oshun_Auset]

One observation . . .

Today, many of the private corporations in the banking/ insurance, etc. industries and the families involved had a start as ACTIVE hands in the trans-atlantic slave trade.

Those who had their root in the trans-atlantic slave trade are those who today, as some like to put it are, "at the top of the food chain."

The two "elect" running for the president of the US are heirs to business, family and secret society dynasties which had a huge and active role in the slave trade

I agree with this statement above but the fact that Praxis calls slavery of any kind a "successful development strategy" is quite frightening and devoid of any humanistic approach to analyzing history. Are we really more "advanced" than hunter gatherer societies? Development and advancement does not necessarily have to be accumulations of wealth...that is putting economics before humanity. All the economic wealth of the societies you mentioned are dripping in the blood of the exploited masses. That isn't advancement to me. That is inhumanity.

[praxis]

Bantu_Kelani
"If white folks excel at it, then it is prevalent and characteristic of their collective behavior."


I would agree with this if you are talking about White folks of a particular time and place in the historical record. I would disagree if you are saying that all Caucasian people that ever were and that ever will be are prone to violent and selfish behavior. This would nullify any notion of change and ascendancy in culture with is anathema to my particular beliefs.

[Oshun_Auset]

Bantu_Kelani
"If white folks excel at it, then it is prevalent and characteristic of their collective behavior."


I would agree with this if you are talking about White folks of a particular time and place in the historical record. I would disagree if you are saying that all Caucasian people that ever were and that ever will be are prone to violent and selfish behavior. This would nullify any notion of change and ascendancy in culture with is anathema to my particular beliefs.

So do you have any explanation of why Eurpoean culture "excelled" at exploitation and subjugation of the entire world?

[c-spot_rasta]

"If it did I wish to read some literature or any documentary inscription relating to these chronic tribal conflicts in pre-colonial Africa you speak of."

K sorry, I write how I talk. Would HAVE not would OF.

[seshatasefekht7]

peace and hotep,

ask oedipus what is meant by 'raping the mother(africa)'

bantu-kelani, please give me more references on the lack of severity of the last epoch of the pleistocene which began circa 35000  only to begin subsiding around 10000 bc(25000years of ice age habitation). conditions for huemen to change anthropomorphically tends toward a most sever climatic experience. from brown eyes to blue ones? from broad nostrils to thin ones? from big booties to flat ones? from a soul/rhythm to no soul/rhythm? sir nose d'void of funk? no, we funked up....yes that fuss wuz us......now pin the tale on the funky....glorihallastupid.

as diop said 'civilization or barbarism'. cromagnon cannaballized to survive.

now lets move from alienation to anxiety.....

.....like alienation, anxiety in the western civilization and culture, stems from the origene of that culture-which rests fundamentally in the production of albino mutants from black parents in africa(poor oedipus). anxiety, like alienation in western culture, is the result of the rejection of these albinos because of their genetic deficiency status and their subsequent abandonment and migration northward to form what is now recognized as the 'white' race. this global white collective maintains a different appearace from the rest of huemankind, and they dislike this difference. therefore they tan and use makeup. they remain a minority of the world's people, surrounded globally by a black, brown, red and yellow global majority, the 'white' global collective remains genetically recessive to the black, brown, red and yellow majority.......

lives each day and each minute of every hour in the continuous fear of 'white' annihilation by the global majority of genetic dominants. (fear or a black planet....pe)

this fundamental fear of albino isolation, abandonment and gentic annihilation, is at the core of western civilization- a civilization structured to ensure 'white' genetic survival. this survival plan necessitates the subjugation and control of all non'white' peoples. i define this subjagation and control as the 'white' supremacy system-----DR FRANCES CRESS WELSING      


now to the narcissistic personality disorder.......

a. grandiose sense of self importance or uniqueness

b. preoccupation withe fantasies of unlimited success, power,
   brilliance, beauty or ideal love

c. exhibitionistic:  requires constant attention and admiration

d. responds to criticism, indifference of others, or defeat  
   withe either cool indifference or withe marked feelings of
   rage, inferiority, shame, humiliation or emptiness

e. two of the following:

   1. lack of empathy: inability to recognize how others feel
   2. entitlement: expectation of special favors withe
       reactions or surprise and anger when others don't
       comply
   3. interpersonal exploitiveness: takes advantage of
       others to indulge his own desires of for self-
       aggrandizement, withe disregard for the personal
       integrity and rights of others
   4. relationships characteristically vacillate between the
       extremes of over-idealization and devaluation

from the 'diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders'  published by the amorican psychiatric associaton. kinda reminds me of me........

if dr king could have coined the phrase 'chickens comin home to roost', i think he would have reminded us of that bad seed that we spawn. like "beloved'" , that seed is a constant reminder of our origenal dirty deed done dirt cheap(our castaways)  on our incited and angry 'white' children in the name of superstition/religion. our babies withe the bathe water.

freedomisahapislave

[Rootsie]

I think it is a mistake to look at cultural development removed from a notion of ascendancy/evolution/time. Time is the master. To ignore the process of cultural growth through time is to deny the gift of eternal life culture represents. You as an individual will wither and fade, but your culture will thrive and grow. Evolution.

Well your culture will thrive and grow or your culture will become extinct.
'Progress' is a 300 year-old European idea, and it is not interchangeable with 'evolution'. Every brute tyrant justifies his monstrous behavior in the name of 'progress.' The Europeans used the idea of 'progress' to justify the eradication of the black race. But what the idea of 'progress' masks was their insecurity about the fact that they were 'the new kids on the block.' Before 1650 or so, it was common knowledge that Greece owed it all to Egypt, but in order to make the imperialist game go, it was necessary to bury that history and maintain that Europe was the light of the world.

Time is the master? Well it depends greatly on how you perceive time.  Is it a straight line from past through present to future, as the West perceives it, or is it cyclical? Evolution can be liberation or it can be eternal servitude. In every moment exists the choice. Whether or not culture is a gift is also clearly a choice.  It can't be assumed that every new thing that comes down the pike is an improvement on what came before. I can think of endless examples to the contrary.

The big assumption of the white West is that it knows best. Everybody else needs to shut up and get out of the way of this 'natural' evolution.  But what underlies this arrogant assumption is nothing but stinking fear.

Rootsie

Revolutionary praxis is self-empowerment though reflection which leads to meaningful action.  A conscious moment which can transform past, present, and future. This is the means of true 'cultural development'.

[hailiniemperor]

Bantu you love to try to spoon feed the I words you try to put in my mouth. I never said anything about European Imperialism NOT making sharp divisions of the African tribes and nations. They obviously did. I did say that the act of conquest and plunder is evil in itself, of which there is proof that African Tribes/Kingdoms  participated in. I find it hard to believe you do not know what Plunder means when you seem to exude knowledge. PLUNDER: To take by force, steal.

My whole purpose of posting was to debunk this theory that Evil and Anti-Life began with the White Man. This is completely a racist mode of thinking. It is absolutely ignorant to believe that a diabolical nature originated with ONE specific people.

On what basis do you have to accuse me of upholding lies? Im not perfect, and I try my best to progress on my path, but I do not uphold one single lie.  It is quite obvious by statements that you have made that you are blatantly racist. Then you wanna come on here talkin about the SOUL.

[praxis]

Rootsie

Europeans no more invented the notion of progress than Newton "invented" gravity or Einstein "invented" relativity. Describing an existing phenomena is certainly not the same as inventing it. Progress is inherent from the moment of creation. no matter whether it is progress down a straight line or 'round a wheel.

Progress is a value-neutral term. Think of progression, or a series of steps. You would throw out a useful concept because of the misuse of one culture? I wont. Progress is a very useful word, as is hierarchy. These words are often vilified by those who fall prey to the obfuscation of liberal education.

Why must time be either linear or cyclical? This is another false dichotomy foisted on the world. Time displays the characteristics of most intangible physical theories in that it can be useful to speak of it in a number of ways, much like it is useful to speak of energy as either a particle or a wave. Time ultimately passes judgment on all evolutionary and cultural possibilities, but time seldom works its magic in the lifespan of humans impatient for immediate vindication. Such is life, it is not my choosing nor yours. Time alone will reveal what it wants, when it wants.

Nowhere do I suggest that anything novel must be good. Those are your value laden notions, not mine. I maintain the process is good, not every outcome. Sometimes you cook some food and it tastes delicious, sometimes you cook some food and it tastes horrible. Do you then vilify the process of cooking, or only your one horrible outcome? Exactly.

But I agree with your statement on the West, and your definition of praxis, though I am not a Marxist.

[praxis]

"I agree with this statement above but the fact that Praxis calls slavery of any kind a "successful development strategy" is quite frightening and devoid of any humanistic approach to analyzing history. Are we really more "advanced" than hunter gatherer societies? Development and advancement does not necessarily have to be accumulations of wealth...that is putting economics before humanity. All the economic wealth of the societies you mentioned are dripping in the blood of the exploited masses. That isn't advancement to me. That is inhumanity."

History is begging to throw off the yoke of apologetic humanistic approaches. Relativism is a curse.

America was built on the backs of slaves. America is the most powerful country in the world. Thus, slavery contributed to the wealth of America. Logic. Slavery is without a doubt a successful development strategy. This should mortify you. I'm glad it does. But this doesn't mean it wasn't profoundly successful. AIDS is also profoundly successful. A virus that allows its host to live long enough to continually transmit the virus through sex. Truly amazing, truly successful....if you are a virus.

Success is a value-neutral term. Don't be afraid to use language as it it was meant to be used.

You are quite correct in that wealth and power are not the final arbiters of a developed society. There are many measure of a society or culture. But some are more basic than others. For instance, the Taliban put a premium on allegiance to Allah's will as perceived by them. Not many people would argue that Afghanistan is "more" advanced that America. They may be a victim of America's imperialist designs, but certainly they are not more advanced. This notion actually goes to the heart of your original question.

I would like to return to that if time permits me in the next few days. Thanks for the discussion.

[gman]

Hailininemperor:
  I also do not agree with Bantu_Kelani when she seems to imply that Europeans have an INHERENT tendency towards greed and violence, more than any other people.
  (I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, Bantu, and I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if I'm misrepresenting your position).
  However, Hailininemperor, I think that WHEN BANTU KELANI'S PEOPLE COME FROM THE CONGO AND INVADE YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, SLAUGHTERING OVER 10 MILLION OF YOUR PEOPLE WITHIN THE SPACE OF A COUPLE YEARS, ENSLAVE THEM ON RUBBER PLANTATIONS OR WHATEVER NATURAL RESOURCE YOU HAVE WHERE YOU ARE FROM, AND SPEND THE NEXT CENTURY UNDERMINING ANY STEPS TO PROGRESS THAT YOUR PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE, ASSASSINATING PROGRESSIVE LEADERS AND REPLACING THEM WITH MURDEROUS THIEVING PUPPET DICTATORS... then, and only then, should you refer to her as 'racist'.
  I've noticed that when Black people refer to white people as racist, we mean they kill us, torture us, imprison us, deny us decent food, clothing, healthcare, etc. But when white people refer to Black people as racist, they mean we look at them funny and don't particularly want to hang out with them. THE TWO EXPERIENCES ARE NOT COMMENSURATE.
  I do think you are sincere, Hailininemperor, and have some good things to say sometimes even, however all that is negated by such PATHETIC WHINING about Black people 'not accepting you'.  For your own sake, stop it!!!

[Bantu_Kelani]

I did say that the act of conquest and plunder is evil in itself, of which there is proof that African Tribes/Kingdoms  participated in. I find it hard to believe you do not know what Plunder means when you seem to exude knowledge. PLUNDER: To take by force, steal.

My whole purpose of posting was to debunk this theory that Evil and Anti-Life began with the White Man. This is completely a racist mode of thinking. It is absolutely ignorant to believe that a diabolical nature originated with ONE specific people.

On what basis do you have to accuse me of upholding lies? Im not perfect, and I try my best to progress on my path, but I do not uphold one single lie.  It is quite obvious by statements that you have made that you are blatantly racist. Then you wanna come on here talkin about the SOUL.

Again there is NO RECORD that hints the Black race committed wholesale massacres and atrocities to animals or human beings BEFORE the invasions of the Caucasian people from 671 AD onward. It occurs to me that the real RACISTS came from the Caucasus mountains. They kidnapped Blacks Africans to build "country" that was already occupied by people Columbus discovered and named "Indians". They enslaved, exploited, exterminated everyone that stepped in their way etc. etc. etc. To back up my claims I give a lot of contemporary and historical examples but you, you bring NO proof. Then there is no reason we should beleive you.  It clear you are in dire need of a history lesson. You really cannot debate issues such as this with puerile argumentations. And how is labeling me a racist challenging the facts on solid ground?? C'Mon hailininemperor!! Check yourself now! Why don't look at your own bias?

You blame only me? You engage yourself in the very practice you lament. So, are we conscious Black folks only to choose discourses and methods that White folk will like and "compromise" with your terrorism? You don't want to gain knowledge with real issues. You just want to wrap Black people in your web of escapist confusion. The "Black racist" card is hugely overplayed .. Your accusation is no different from other immature and hateful white folks who love to say that Blacks are racists when they discuss real issues. I know how your types in their attitudes are simply those in favor of the status quo..please.  

bantu-kelani, please give me more references on the lack of severity of the last epoch of the pleistocene which began circa 35000  only to begin subsiding around 10000 bc(25000years of ice age habitation). conditions for huemen to change anthropomorphically tends toward a most sever climatic experience. from brown eyes to blue ones? from broad nostrils to thin ones? from big booties to flat ones? from a soul/rhythm to no soul/rhythm? sir nose d'void of funk? no, we funked up....yes that fuss wuz us......now pin the tale on the funky....glorihallastupid.

I try to read what you write in your post but I can't understand what you're saying because what you say so many times doesn't make any sense. The Ice Age question I understood though, so I can answer that...Pick up any encyclopedia and read therein that the Pleistocene Epoch between 10,000 and 1.5 million years ago, altered with warmer periods, temperatures similar to those of the present day. Therefore the earliest humans hominids in the Caucasian mountains increased larger brain, sophisticated tools, improved hunting and gathering and use of fire. The gradual development allowed them even to expand to central Europe and the Caspian Sea.  I admit the cold environment these humans encountered far from Africa created racial differences. But remember they also developed pinky/white skin and pale hair as a result of permanently living in caves. They also appear to have been a warlike Homo sapiens sapiens. Several conflicts are attested from evidence of prehistoric bones of early humans that appear to have met death violently in some case with stone blades.

(cf. Past World, Atlas of Archeology - HarperCollis). I assume nothing I deal with historical facts based with radiocarbon dating evidence.


gman, you laid it out! Peace.


Bantu Kelani.

[iyah360]

I agree with this statement above but the fact that Praxis calls slavery of any kind a "successful development strategy" is quite frightening and devoid of any humanistic approach to analyzing history. Are we really more "advanced" than hunter gatherer societies? Development and advancement does not necessarily have to be accumulations of wealth...that is putting economics before humanity. All the economic wealth of the societies you mentioned are dripping in the blood of the exploited masses. That isn't advancement to me. That is inhumanity.

True . . I wonder of the logic of linear development . . . what factors are being measured? As the saying goes, "why gain the whole world and lose your soul?" If ones are measuring from the stance of ethics and spiritual development, we live in an extremely RETARDED and INFANTILE society.

[Oshun_Auset]

For all the conservative European apologists who interpret the Trans-Atlantic slave trade as "successful"...although in your own post you say AIDS is "successful" to the virus(but is it to the host). Therfore slavery was successful to (the virus/AND the people who used said virus) and detrimental to whom(the African host). Slavery involved human beings, so unlike you...it is hard for me to look at an institution as "successful" in purely scientific anti-human terms...It may be the African duality concept I can't turn off...I can't seperate morality from science. Slavery isn't a lifeform of it's own(as in a virus), it is a system perpetrated by one human being on another...So therefore, since you are on Africa speaks, I was referring to the terms 'successful' and 'slave trade' from and AFRICAN perspective(of course)!

An unanswered question by some that has seemed to have drifted in the background...

Do you have any explanation of why Eurpoean culture "excelled" at exploitation and subjugation of the entire world?

I see a lot of fancy wording by thoughs who mastered "massa's" colonial tongue(I ain't English anyway so that means little), but very few answers to the origional question that was proposed...

Did some of you come here only to criticize other's theories, or are you willing to propose your own for this question?

Gman....You said it brother!
Bantu Kelani....we see it for what it is too.

[praxis]

As I stated in the last line of my previous post; I would like to return to the original question when I have time to post a detailed opinion. I think that there is some usefulness to all theories, and that even mistaken theories help to narrow the field of choices. I have all of 5 minutes right now, and that won't do. I think several viable answers have already been posted....though I also believe that there is no definitive answer for your question.

I can understand your take on the separation of morality and science. This separation is a very real gulf between Eastern and Western thought.

I speak as I was trained to.  I do not pretend to be something I'm not.