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25856 Posts in 9933 Topics by 982 Members Latest Member: - Ferguson Most online today: 289 (July 03, 2005, 06:25:30 PM)
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Author Topic: Slavery and spanking of Children  (Read 11449 times)
OlOrisa_Olokun
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« on: June 27, 2004, 01:45:20 PM »

PRESS RELEASE
April 27, 2004

From: Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education (PTAVE)

Re: Apology for slavery issued by University of Alabama, but slavery-derived whippings still widespread

The University of Alabama's formal apology for its historical ties to slavery is a fine gesture, and we congratulate the university for its good intentions. However, this gesture fails to recognize and address the fact that one of the principal techniques of the slave masters continues to be practiced, and for that reason it is incorrect to assume that slavery is entirely a thing of the past. We refer here to the practice of beating children.

The University of Alabama should act now to promote a ban against the use of slavery-derived whippings and paddlings in the so-called "discipline" of children by their teachers and principals. Educators, after all, are not trained to hit. Violence has no legitimate place in education, and educators should never compromise their professionalism by cooperating with hitters.

Abolition of corporal punishment would accomplish far more for the descendents of slaves by protecting them in the here-and-now (African American schoolchildren receive a disproportionately high percentage of all school paddlings) than by offering apologies for the violence committed against their ancestors. It would bring Alabama's public education system into the modern world, promote educational excellence and elevate teacher behavior to a standard worthy of emulation by parents and all other caregivers. True disassociation from slavery must include a forthright, unequivocal disavowal of slavery's most pernicious legacy: child beating.
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OlOrisa_Olokun
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2004, 01:45:43 PM »

spanking a child that you think is disobedient is not african at all. i think its a recent expression in our culture. i think it born out of personal stress and frustrations. i think its about control. whether its done if africa or in america or anywhere else.

i dont think our ancient and traditional elders hit children as a regular expression of culture. i referenced other cultures because other indigenous faiths are starting to stand up and say "hey, why do children have to be HIT to be TAUGHT?"

any time you hit someone you are invoking fear and pain as their teacher. that is an assault on Spirit. Africans shouldnt be assaulting or stunting the Spirit of our youngest.

Would you hit God? When you hit a child that is exactly what you are doing in my opinion. Plus, we show no restraint. People don't judge character. They use hitting for all their children. People dont study personality types - they dont think they have the time for it. Just hit 'em all when they are "bad" and keep on trucking. Thats pure unadulturated EVIL.

The fact is when you've hit a child you said "I dont have any other means to bring understanding to this person." -- Wow, thats a big statement. and at the root is "CONTROL". You might as well start hitting them when you fail to tutor them well enough to making passing grades in alegbra. Maybe hit them when you can't teach them to hit the baseball or ride a bike.

See we hit them because they wont do what we say to do. The failure lies in us, not them. Our ancestors used to wake up everyday and pray for the individual intuition of each our children to develop, so they would be guided to make better choices during their day and so they would be open to their inner voice. Maybe we ought to go back to that. Perhaps we wont need to physically assault children when we do that work instead. Then we can start hitting the people that really make us mad - Babylon. Then black dope dealers will stop shooting their brothers and start shooting their REAL enemies. I guess in the meantime, we will just hit our children to vent, right?
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preach
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« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2004, 01:30:36 AM »

I see nothing wrong with spanking as a form of discipline. It is not always the best or final solution but an option. When it becomes excessive then i have a problem with it. Sometimes it is best to simply have open discussions with children, even including those seemingly too young to understand. As parents we love to believe that we have the strongest influence over our kids, when in actually their peers and popular culture influence them the most. Knowing this, when a stern scolding is lacking other tactics need to be implemented.    
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OlOrisa_Olokun
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2004, 02:33:10 PM »

as a nonprofit consultant that worked and advised on many a childrens' program: most parents dont have the skill set. they resort to spanking because they dont know the developmental issues that can occur from spanking. they also feel powerless when trying to get their children to behave. so they resort to violence.

for years the contemporary black community has been saying "spanking didnt hurt me" but we are some of the angriest, most violent of our time. we are MUCH more violent than our ancestors. much more.

we have unresolved power issues to be sure.

also spanking is pain. pain is subversion. subversion is tyranny. tyranny is eurocentric.

we want freedom, but we want to enslave our children rather than become more informed parents?

(by the way I AM a parent. lol)
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preach
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« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2004, 05:19:42 PM »

 What are some alternatives to spanking?
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OlOrisa_Olokun
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2004, 07:43:26 AM »

it depends on your child. but the first alternative to spanking is the thing that parents do not want to do:

model good behavior.

many of us are horrible role models for our children. we say no talking back or being smart - then we curse people out, have attitudes at the traffic light and talk about people that we encounter - all in front of our children. our children are mimmicking us 80% of the time. Or some other family member.

So this is first and foremost. If you can not model good behavior. That is if you can't say "thank you" and "you're welcome" EVERYTIME, stop asking your child to do it. If you don't say "sir" and "ma'am" stop asking your child to do it. its hyprocrictical and only mildly effective.

Besides this there are secular and spiritual ways of discpline. I was brought up reading lots of stories that had ethical codes embedded in them. As a result I was introduced to fun things that reinforced good lifestyle. My mother and extended family really emphasized the messages in everything. So they built a foundation for ethical behavior.

Where age and maturity are the issue and not ethics. Here are some good things:

* cut down television time. dont desensitize children to violence or smut. they should be alarmed when they witness wrong, not comfortably familiar.
* don't allow your children to listen to music that refers to sex, violence, drugs, "the streets", hustling, booty poppin' etc. If they hear it, they will try to emulate. all the data supports this.
* take something away that they enjoy. my son loses toys, outside play time, visits to cousins/friends, field trips - and sometime dinner when he acts up. i absolutely always punish him in some way whether mild or harsh when he disobeys. every time.
* i explain right and wrong before we get to a problem, not once he is in trouble. we talk about things we see during the day and what is right and wrong, so he has an analogy to work with.
* stand/sit them in the corner.
* make them go to bed early. (my son has gone to bed as early as 4pm. lol)
* give them extra chores.
* make them sit in a room with no books, tv, or nothing - but they cant go to sleep.

the truth is, there are a million quantifiable punishements. but punishment is NOT the key. the key is how we raise our children. how we build character. we spend more time paying the childcare center than we do enstilling ethics in our children. parents should be not be listening to Twista, Jay-Z and Three 6  Mafia with their kids. They shouldnt let allowing their children to read/view violence. They SHOULD be providing some kind of spiritual or ethica lessons on a REGULAR BASIS. They should be MODELING good behavior. (that "do as i say, not as i do" method is flawed and sinful.)

we need to look at our children while they are very young and notice if we yell at lot, or if we complain a lot, or if our children ever see us do community service.

on a spiritual note - every parent should pray for spiritual clarity and strength for their children. every day. starting at birth.

other than that, we need to forbid family members that are a negative influence from being around our children. the arguement that you rather "hip your child to reality" rather than protect them from negative influences is a modern answer. and its flawed as well. let your son hang out with the uncle that sells dope and he will be cooking crack in your kitchen while you are at work in no time. its a no brainer.

lastly there is a vast amount of research that links junk food, white refined sugar and processed foods and a lack of fresh produce and fruit to bad and erratic behavior. this michievous behavior become depression, rage, addiction and laziness as children become adults. so the last recommendation is that parents stop cooking in fat, stop giving out candy, learn how to meditate - then teach your kids, and start learning how to cook and serve delicious produce and fruit based meals. Meat is meant to be a sidedish, not a main course. Meat is also clinically associated with aggression. The meat industry has hidden this data for years. So slow your child's roll.

I am rushing to a meeting, but thats my quick answer to your question. but we should continue the dialogue when i have more time.

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preach
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2004, 09:45:18 PM »

Thanks alot for your response to my inquiry. The ideas you presented were wonderful. But what if you can't afford to be around your child at all times. The influence others have on kids is tremendous. Imagine being ostracized by your circle of peers because you chose to stand out on a limb. A young child is not that courageous. Would you object to maybe a slap on the hand? Also as a child were you ever spanked, and what type of effect did this have?
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leslie
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2004, 12:16:25 PM »

I don't think that parents spank their children out of hate but it is the best way for them to discipline their children...or at least that's what most of them think. Is corporal punishment really the best way to discipline a child? I do not agree at all. I had a discussion about this same issue recently with some associates and I expressed that corporal punishment reduces children to the likes of animals in a circus. They all jeered and said that I was extreme, but was I? Usually, animals would be beaten into submission so that instructions would be followed but do we have to utilize the same method with children? Are children without the ability to reason? I have witnessed that children whose parents are patient enough to reason with them understood better what was done wrong and made immediate efforts to correct their transgressions. In fact there was no need to discipline or take corrective action against such children because their lesson had already been learnt. Because parents lack the ability to reason with their children, they have to use force to display their authority. I remember as a child attending primary school I would be beaten daily for misbehaving or doing my work poorly. Did the beatings help me improve? NO! My father would reason with me and made me understand that my misdemeanour and my poor performance at school would have serious consequences in the future. Even though I do admit that he has also drawn the whip upon my back, it was his reasoning with me that made me think before I acted. Actually every time he 'corrected' me with the belt, I would cry more so because it was he who hit me and not really because of the whipping that was inflicted.
 Beating children is in fact a legacy of our enslavement. It was done basically so that the production on the plantations would have been boosted and for the enslaved Africans to be reminded who was the boss. This was then practiced in the homes of the Blacks so that they could have ensured their own survival and could show that they were the bosses of their children. Today’s reality is quite similar, as parents still believe that they are the bosses of their children. Parents need to learn to be good exemplars as their children look up to them first before they chose their heroes and heroines from outside. Also, parents need to learn to talk with their children and have them understand the reasons behind their rules and guidelines. Even though this would require a lot of patience, it is worth the time. Remember that most Black children fall victim to corporal punishment and this has not done anything to improve the levels of violence in the schools or in the wider society. It was those who were taught, not beaten, who have managed to cope with the system better because they understood it.
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OlOrisa_Olokun
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2004, 07:32:02 AM »

Quote
Thanks alot for your response to my inquiry. The ideas you presented were wonderful. But what if you can't afford to be around your child at all times. The influence others have on kids is tremendous. Imagine being ostracized by your circle of peers because you chose to stand out on a limb. A young child is not that courageous. Would you object to maybe a slap on the hand? Also as a child were you ever spanked, and what type of effect did this have?


i think we should resist the temptation to spank at all. i think i should resist the tempation to slice and and dice you when you roll by on 22s too. lol my point is that when we know we can get away with it, so we have these discussions like "well can't i just..." or "some kids needs it." - we need to stop feeling powerless because we cant control these children. they came out of our sperm and eggs, but they belong to God - not to us. they dont belong to you. the notion that i should coral my child's acts is futile. i can beat 'im and he may hate me. he may go to school and beat the other kids. and truth be told, thats whats happening.

children that are spanked on a regular basis are more and more taking that experience coupling it with TV and music and thrashing other kids they encounter on the playground, in school and even on the infamous back pew of church were all the kids hang out. -- when i was a kid, the bully worked us over during church. lol we are modeling violence. everything else is backburner. the lesson. the "reason" they got in trouble. all backburner.

i dont know what you mean by pressure from other children. kids do pressure one another, but YOU have to model good behavior and LET your child know when you are TEMPTED to do wrong, but did the RIGHT thing anyway. we hide too much of the mechanics of ethical behavior from our kids. Thats keeping it real. saying "son, my boss wanted me to lie to a client today to make some money, but i refused to do it. instead i just....and i think things are gonna be fine because i think God will appreciate that I did the right thing in the long run." or "cause i gotta look at myself everyday in the mirror and like who i am."  we have to MODEL and SHARE with our children.

if you aint doing right. you children aint doing right. if you arent coaching them on good behavior, they are following the other kids. if you using violence, they are using violence.
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When we have the determination to restrain our lower desires, the door is opened for us to fulfill our highest aspirations.
preach
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2004, 10:37:27 PM »

I think that we as parents sometimes forget that our children have their own minds and ideas. It is unrealistic to believe that children will accept everything we teach them as law. As a child I remember going against my mother's instruction out of pure curiosity. This does not mean that she neglected to model  good behavior, it means that I was child who like my peers sometimes acted defiant. Also as child I was not spanked but punished other ways. But this was because it served me best to be restricted from doing things, rather than getting a spanking, because it hurt me more. My point is kids should be dealt with accordingly, and some methods are just not effective on certain kids. Perhaps a tongue lashing could cause mental damage, or sending a child to the corner is a form of torture.  
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RASNUBIAN
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2004, 09:55:29 PM »

LET ME SAY THIS....IN THE ENVIRONMENT ME AND MY FAMILY LIVE IN AND THE NEGATIVE INFLUENCES THAT ARE PRESENT IN THIS ENVIRONMENT IT IS IMPERITIVE THAT MY CHILDREN LISTEN AND OBEY THE RULES AND GUIDLINES I SET UP FOR THEM TO FOLLOW. IF A SMACK IN THE HEAD WILL BRING TO MIND THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE TIMES WE LIVE IN THEN SO BE IT. AT LEAST THEY WILL BE ALIVE.

I CANNOT AND WILL NOT ALLOW MY CHILDREN TO BE DISOBEDIENT TO MY WORD. FOR IN SUCH AN ENVIRONMENT MUCH GREATER HARM CAN COME TO MY CHILDREN THEN MY WIPPING OR CHASTIZING THEM PHYSICALLY.

THIS IS NOT AFRIKA NOR ARE WE, OR THE PEOPLE AROUND US IN OUR PROPER SPIRITUAL AND CULTURAL STATE OF MIND. EVERYTHING IS OUT OF ORDER AND THIS INCLUDES OUR CHILDREN. IF A SPANKING OR INSTILLING FEAR IN OUR CHILDREN TO SAVE THEM FROM DRUGS, MURDER, GANGS, DRINKING, SEXUAL PERVERSION, ETC...ETC...STOPS OR HINDERS THEM FROM OUTRIGHT DISRESPECT AND REBELLION SO BE IT.

WHEN WE RETURN TO AFRIKA AND OUR PROPER STATE OF MIND WE CAN ADJUST OUR DICIPLINE, UNTIL THEN IF YOU LIVE IN THE PROJECTS OR ONE OF THE MANY GHETTO HOLES IN AMERIKKKA THE RODE OF CORRECTION MIGHT JUST SAVE THEIR LIVES. IT HAS MINE!
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OlOrisa_Olokun
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2004, 09:19:10 PM »

i can respect that. but i just happen to believe that when we live in such conditions we are in more in need of compassion and spiritual discipline.

they have us in the ghetto for a reason. to ignite the worst characteristics in us that they can. violence is chief among them.
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When we have the determination to restrain our lower desires, the door is opened for us to fulfill our highest aspirations.
RASNUBIAN
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2004, 09:36:02 PM »

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK I DONT HAVE COMPASSION AND SPIRITUALLITY BRO?

ALL THESE THINGS AND MORE MAKE UP THAT SCIENCE CALLED DISCIPLINE. DISCIPLINE ENTALES A WIDE RANGE OF TECHNIQUES. LIFE IS BALANCE, AND SO IS DISCIPLINE.
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preach
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2004, 10:47:12 PM »

iyawo, i love that last statement you made. Our worst characteristics are brought to light and we are truly in dire need of compassion.
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