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iyah360
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« on: August 21, 2003, 08:42:41 AM »

peace.

I feel there needs to be some discussion of this. I will begin by posting this:

TACITUS ON HEBREW'S ORIGIN and the Jews of his day

Tacitus the best of the Roman Historian presents the Egyptian account of the Hebrew's origin. His conciseness of style has through imitation influenced a majority of prominent writers in Europe, up to this century.

HISTORY 5.2-5: THEORIES OF JEWISH ORIGINS
Moses Hadas, translation

Evidence of this is sought in the name [for the origin of the Hebrew people]. There is a famous mountain in Crete called Ida; the neighbouring tribe, the Idi, came to be called Judaei by a barbarous lengthening of the national name. Others assert that in the reign of Isis the overflowing population of Egypt, led by Hierosolymus and Judas, discharged itself into the neighbouring countries. Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin, who in the time of king Cepheus were driven by fear and hatred of their neighbours to seek a new dwelling-place. Others describe them as an Assyrian horde who, not having sufficient territory, took possession of part of Egypt, and founded cities of their own in what is called the Hebrew country, lying on the borders of Syria. Others, again, assign a very distinguished origin to the Jews, alleging that they were the Solymi, a nation celebrated in the j poems of Homer, who called the city which they founded Hierosolyma after their own name.

3. Most writers, however, agree in stating that once a disease, which horribly disfigured the body, broke out over Egypt; that king Bocchoris, seeking a remedy, consulted the oracle of Hammon, and was bidden to cleanse his realm, and to convey into some foreign land this race detested by the gods. The people, who had been collected after diligent search, finding themselves left in a desert, sat for the most part in a stupor of grief, till one of the exiles, Moyses by name, warned them not to look for any relief from God or man, forsaken as they were of both, but to trust to them selves, taking for their heaven-sent leader that man who should first help them to be quit of their present misery. They agreed, and in utter ignorance began to advance at random. Nothing, however, distressed them so much as the scarcity of water, and they had sunk ready to perish in all I directions over the plain, when a herd of wild asses was seen to retire from their pasture to a rock shaded by trees. Moyses followed them, and, guided by the appearance of a grassy spot, discovered an abundant spring of water. This furnished relief. After a continuous journey for six days, on the seventh they possessed themselves of a country, from which they expelled the inhabitants, and in which they founded a city and a temple.

4. Moyses, wishing to secure for the future his authority over the nation, gave them a novel form of worship, opposed to all that practised by other men. Things sacred with us, with them have no sanctity, while they allow what with us is forbidden. In their holy place they have consecrated an image of the animal by whose guidance they found deliverance from their long and thirsty wanderings. They slay the ram, seemingly in derision of Hammon, and they sacrifice the ox, because the Egyptians worship it as Apis. They abstain from swines flesh, in consideration of what they suffered when they were infected by the leprosy to which this animal is liable. By their frequent fasts they still bear witness to the long hunger of former days, and the Jewish bread, made without leaven, is retained as a memorial of their hurried seizure of corn. We are told that the rest of the seventh day was adopted, because this day brought with it a termination of their toils; after a while the charm of indolence beguiled them into giving up the seventh year also to inaction. But others say that it is an observance in honour of Saturn, either from the primitive elements of their faith having been transmitted from the Ideai, who are said to have shared the flight of that God, and to have founded the race, or from the circumstance that of the seven stars which rule the destinies of men Saturn moves in the highest orbit and with the mightiest power, and that many of the heavenly bodies complete their revolutions and courses in multiples of seven.

5. This worship, however introduced~ is upheld by its antiquity; all their other customs, which are at once perverse and disgusting, owe their strength to their very badness. The most degraded out of other races, scorning their national beliefs, brought to them their contributions and presents. This augmented the wealth of the Jews, as also did the fact, that among themselves they are inflexibly honest and ever ready to shew compassion, though they regard the rest of mankind with all the hatred of enemies. They sit apart at meals, they sleep apart. and though, as a nation, they are singularly prone to lust, they abstain from intercourse with foreign women; among themselves nothing is unlawful. Circumcision was adopted by them as a mark of difference from other men. Those who come over to their religion adopt the practice, and have this lesson first instilled into despise all gods, to disown their country, and set at nought parents, children, and brethren. Still they provide for increase of their numbers. It is a crime among them any newly-born infant. They hold that the souls of perish in battle or by the hands of the executioner are mortal. Hence a passion for propagating their race and a contempt for death. They are wont to bury rather burn their dead, following in this the Egyptian custom, bestow the same care on the dead, and they hold the belief about the lower world. Quite different is their about things divine. The Egyptians worship many animals and images of monstrous form; the Jews have purely conceptions of Deity, as one in essence. They call those profane who make representations of God in human shape of perishable materials. They believe that Being to supreme and eternal, neither capable of representation or decay. They therefore do not allow any images to their cities: much less in their temples. This flattery paid to their kings, nor this honour to our Emperors. From the fact, however, that their priests used to chant to music of flutes and cymbals, and to wear garlands of and that a golden vine was found in the temple, some thought that they worshipped Father Liber, the conqueror of the East, though their institutions do not by any means harmonize with the theory; for Liber established a festive and cheerful worship, while the Jewish religion is tasteless and mean.

6. Eastward the country is bounded by Arabia; to the south lies Egypt; on the west are Phcenicia and the Mediterranean. Northward it commands an extensive prospect over Syria. The inhabitants are healthy and able to bear fatigue. Rain is uncommon, but the soil is fertile. Its products resemble our own. They have, besides, the balsam and the palm. The palm-groves are tall and graceful. The balsam is a shrub; each branch, as it fills with sap, may pierced with a fragment of stone or pottery. If steel is employed, the veins shrink up. The sap is used by physicians. Libanus is the principal mountain, and has, strange to say, amidst these burning heats, a summit shaded with trees and never deserted by its snows. The same range supplies and sends forth the stream of the Jordan. This river does not discharge itself into the sea, but flows entire through two lakes, and is lost in the third. This is a lake of vast circumference; it resembles the sea, but is more nauseous in taste; it breeds pestilence among those who live near by its noisome odour; it cannot be moved by the wind, and it affords no home either to fish or water-birds. These strange waters support what is thrown upon them, as on a solid surface, and all persons, whether they can swim or no, are equally buoyed up by the waves. At a certain season of the year the lake throws up bitumen, and the method of collecting it has been taught by that experience which teaches all other arts. It is naturally a fluid of dark colour; when vinegar is sprinkled upon it, it coagulates and floats upon the surface. Those whose business it is take it with the hand, and draw it on to the deck of the boat; it then continues of itself to flow in and lade the vessel till the stream is cut off. Nor can this be done by any instrument of brass or iron. It shrinks from blood or any cloth stained by the menstrual of women. Such is the account of old authors; but those who know the country say that the bitumen moves m heaving masses on the water, that it is drawn by hand to the shore, and that there, when dried by the evaporation of the earth and the power of the sun, it is cut into pieces with axes and wedges just as timber or stone would be.

7. Not far from this lake lies a plain, once fertile, they say, and the site of great cities, but afterwards struck by lightning and consumed. Of this event, they declare, traces still remain, for the soil, which is scorched in appearance, has lost its productive power.


http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/oldtestament/id8.html
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iyah360
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2003, 10:22:35 AM »

"Like Christianity, Judaism had Pagan origins. Sound kooky? It's mainstream scholarship, though you don't come across it often. This well written, easy to read book is by one of the preeminent experts in the field.

Jewish ritual and mythology developed directly from Canaanite ritual and mythology. Yahweh was originally the son of the Canaanite God El and brother of the Canaanite God Baal.

How do we know this? Ugarit. In 1927 they dug up a Canaanite clay tablet library buried at Ugarit, an ancient city along the northern coast of Syria. Hundreds of ancient texts. Same myths. Same rituals. Same Gods. Only centuries earlier than Judaism.

Who knew?"

from:

http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/the_end_judaism.html

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EmpressFiYah
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2003, 11:26:03 AM »

Blessed Love:

Iyah, give thanx for this, the I always has good information to share.  This “Roman” sounds very typical as to how Romans felt towards Jews and justified their inhumane treatment towards them and other people, especially people of color.  Also, to any initiated Jew/Hebrew/Isrealite, would never try to deny that Judaism bears the remnants of so-called “Pagan” societies.  The names of the months on the Jewish calendar are Babylonian gods, this is well known to the initiated Jew.  Its only Christian and Jews influenced under Western Christian thought  that denies these facts!!

Eternal Guidance
Empress FiYah
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iyah360
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2003, 12:02:33 PM »

Give thanks.


Good to sight the Empress on here again. It has been a while.
Yes indeed, nothing exists in a vacuum . . . cultures have influenced one another since day one.

As you state: "The names of the months on the Jewish calendar are Babylonian gods, this is well known to the initiated Jew.  Its only Christian and Jews influenced under Western Christian thought  that denies these facts!! "

Who are the white Jews today, and how do they fit in with things? Do the initiated bow to gods and concepts the uninitiated know not about? The Ethiopian Jews worship under an older form of Judaism than those who hold the legacy of the Babylonian captivity, so perhaps this is where the difference is to be found.

InI know that at the Root, all religions stem from one place, and that is with the people of antiquity of Africa who developed systems of thought and mythology that spread throughout the world.

Rastafari is the ROOT!

Be good to go further with this sis if the I would honor InI with her knowledge.

Bless.
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EmpressFiYah
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2003, 02:09:12 PM »

Blessed Love:

I&I am not sure where you seek to go with your “line” of reasonings, but I will try to the best of my ability to answer these questions.  You said:

Who are the white Jews today, and how do they fit in with things?

Well, you have many theories and projections regarding this.  First, you have to consider that you have “white” jews in different parts of Europe.  Although all European Jews come under the term “Ashkenazi”, which means German and in the bible was NOT a descendant of Shem (semites) but a descendant of Japhet), is it fair to attribute all European Jews to that term?  Apparently many of the Jews in Great Britain are actually Sephardic, which are more closely thought of as the original diasporic Jews.  The term “Britain” is thought to have coming from “B’rit” which means “covenant” in Hebrew.  During the inquisition, many of the Sephardic Jews were forced out of Spain and went to England, France, Mesopatamia, Turkey and possibly to other Eastern European religiously tolerant countries.  Now apparently there was a large Sephardic population in Turkey and the king of Turkey or the “Kasars” was politically pressured by the surrounding Christian and Muslim countries to pick a “religion” so to speak.  In order to alleviate that pressure of not taking sides, they asked upon the Sephardic Jews to teach the king and royal court about Judaism.  They liked the practice of Judaism and subsequently announced the Kasar kingdom as a Jewish country.  When the Kasar kingdom fell, pockets of jewish communities were springing up in Europe.  So its speculated that these communities were actually Kasars.  A lot of Ashkenazim feel they are part of that fallen Empire and feel a sense of pride about it actually as the ancient Kasar kingdom was a pretty advanced society.  About 40% of European Jews do fit amphropomorphic features of the original semitic speaking peoples, which they share with the same features and lineage of His Majesty.  In fact, old Eastern European cartoonists in the 17th and 18th hundreds portray the Jews to be darker hued, large hooked noses and large lips with curly hair.  Now, through much almagmation, it is evident that many of the current Jews are more “Japhetic” then “Semitic”.  If you ask me what I think, I think all of the above is true.  I think diasporic Jews in any country is an almagmation of their uniqueness with the intermarriage and interculture of that country.  You asked how do they fit in with things?  Well only Jah knows.  I once heard an African American Rabbi say to me that European Jews were the custodians of the covenant, however, now that the original jews are returning, they are not willing to move aside (not out) in order to for the original Israelites to assume their rightful place.  I’ve thought that to be the most valid reasoning.  However, if you want to look for a purpose, perhaps it would be that original Jews have a higher appreci-love of who they are based on the fact that they are having such a hard time retaining their rightful place.  

You asked:

“Do the initiated bow to gods and concepts the uninitiated know not about?”

Well, it seems to be the other way around.  The unitiated bow to gods and concepts because they are so influenced by Christian thought.  These Jews see Judaism through the eyes of Christian.  For example, the whole “chosen” thing is not a concept in countries that Jews live without the influence of Christianity.

You said:

“The Ethiopian Jews worship under an older form of Judaism than those who hold the legacy of the Babylonian captivity, so perhaps this is where the difference is to be found.”

Not only Ethiopian Jews, but

The Yemenite Jews
The Moroccan Jews
The Sirian Jews
The “Holy Land” Jew (those who never left Israel for 3,000 years)
The African Jew

Shall I go on.  Those who are Ashkenazic are not the Babylonian exiled Jews.  The Sephardics are the Bablonian exile Jews.  Ashkenazic are extremely new to the whoel Jewish diaspora.  In Israel, 80% of the Jews are not Ashkenazim, they are either Sephardim, Ethiopian, Mizrachim (middle eastern) or Yemeni.  Ashkenazi orthdox Zionists are the ones who runs Israel.  Are they running it righteously, I feel not.  It would be better off in the hands of the collective, not just one portion (small at that) of the Jewish diaspora.

You said:

“InI know that at the Root, all religions stem from one place, and that is with the people of antiquity of Africa who developed systems of thought and mythology that spread throughout the world.”

That goes without saying, however Africa did not produce religions, Europeans did.  Africans hold the irits (spirit), and Europeans hold the laws (flesh).  Judaism was not considered a religion until Jews were living in lands that had other political/spiritual systems.  Otherwise it was simply a way of life.  

Eternal Love
FiYah
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iyah360
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2003, 02:24:36 PM »

Many thanks sis!

As always, your knowledge and eloquence does wonders for my search for the truth.

Give thanks for clearing up my wordsound as well.

Bless.

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Rootsie
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2003, 03:12:19 PM »

What I am finding in my reading is that the Jews before the Babylonian captivity were not even Jews as we understand that term! The word 'Jew' in fact did not even appear until after the Babylonian Captivity, nor did the Hebrew Bible exist!  YHWH was worshiped along with all the older Canaanite deities, and Solomon's Temple was in every particular similar to Temples and shrines for other deities, as were the rituals that went on there.
In Babylon, the captive Jews saw on display the worldly advantages of a single state religion, and when they went back to Judah, they set about creating one. The Chosen People/Promised Land ideology. Women no longer allowed to be priests. They wrote the Bible, as you said, full of Babylon influence. They wrote the ten commandments and 100's of Levitical Laws and set up a priestly hierarchy.
None of these people was European.
    Ones are afraid to say it, and I can scarcely believe that I am saying it, but the problem with Judaism, which thus infects Christianity and Islam too, is that Judaism is FUNDAMENTALIST at the core. Paranoid, and rising from an embattled stance toward life. Everyone is a stranger, and all you have to do is read the history contained in the Bible and you see what they did to strangers-every man, even every animal murdered, a few 'virgin' girls kept alive as sex slaves.
    European Jews don't want to admit that they are white, and have received privilege accordingly. The Christian hostility toward the Jews is like the ideology turning around and BITING ITSELF. I am not denying what Jews have suffered, but this does not make them a RACE. And many Jews rose in Europe and RAN the joint!
    I am reading Riane Eisler's  The Chalice and the Blade, and though she is infuriating in her ignorance/refusal to acknowledge the African influence on Greece, her perspective about  earlier Partnership (Goddess-worshiping) cultures versus the Dominator cultures which turned the world upside down (the Indo-Aryan Invaders from the East), gives a perspective on YHWH/Judaism that is valuable and makes sense.
    I myself read the Bible for years, trying to make the best of the extremely ugly views on display there-the glorification of war and slaughter and the enslavement of women, and a spiritual understanding that is crude and materialistic. What is the Ark of the Covenant? God in a box? I forget in which book of the Old Testament a father delivers his daughter to be tortured, gang-raped, and murdered, and when he sees her dead body in his doorway, nonchalantly steps over it. Apparently with all those hundreds of laws, not one protected girls and women.
    Maybe my response is so intense because I myself have been such a defender of Judaism, but as I said somewhere else, no one with a history of a thousand million murdered corpses has a thing to say to the world today, and that is the Judeo-Christian tradition, and to a lesser degree, ironically, the Islamic.
    I also think that ones who view Ethiopia as a literal 'promised land' and they as 'chosen people' are making the same mistake. This business of the 'true Jews' and 'real Jews'? I don't know. The problem with Judasim is older than Europe.
    I think it is time to be brave and interrogate Judaism/Christianity on its merit as an ideology. We like to say the problem is not the teaching, it's the people, but what if it IS the teaching?
    There are many profound and beautiful teachings contained in the Bible, but they are not new, and have been stated just as well and better elsewhere.

Rootsie

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iyah360
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2003, 07:58:47 AM »

Peace.

Brutal environments create brutal religions. What was done to survive is codified as Law and followed by the next generations as religion, even if conditions change.

From a certain vantage point, all of humanity is disgusting, all have their proverbial "crosses to bear." All the commandments have been broken at many times to forward an agenda or to survive.

If one group is relatively peaceful and has not developed a cunning art of war and a war-like people come upon them, who will dominate?
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Rootsie
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2003, 09:27:52 AM »

This is true what you said. The dominators will dominate. What is interesting is they could NEVER completely eradicate the voices of partnership and peace, as I believe that is our natural desire and tendency, to choose life, to choose the earth...
And the pendulum is swinging back as more and more see the fruits of brute domination-
Forgive me if I get so wound up on this-you know! smile

the post-colonial scholars like Edward Said and many others say it is necessary to 'leave the West', not physically necessarily but in the mind....Western ideeology prevails so completely that those trying to chains of oppression too often proceed with the assumptions of the West unconsciously.
You can see this all over, where ones buy into Western assumptions about how their countries should 'develop' in order to 'catch up.'

Rootsie

my friend reminded me not to be too hard on the Jews-they began with a simple misunderstanding of the spiritual values they saw displayed in Egypt, and it all went downhill from there...
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iyah360
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2003, 09:43:51 AM »

Peace.

You probably have already checked this that I posted:
http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1061971665

The question is now . . . is Judaism(perhaps not called that) an indigenous African religion? . . . can we find the story of the exodus out of Egypt in other mythologies besides the stories in the bible? The Christ is spoken of thousand of years before the new testament stories in many other cultures . . . could it be the same for the story of the exodus?

According to Albert Churchward,  the original peoples of Egypt were the Masai and the Madi(the same as are found this old line of African Jews in the Sudan mentioned in that article). If these ones are practicing an old form of worship with almost exact replica as the Judaism spoken of in the bible, and we know man originated in Africa, is "Judaism" really an import into Africa??

Hmm.

Hopefully the I's have things to add to this!

Bless.
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Rootsie
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2003, 11:00:32 AM »

Well I think it is undenaible that Judaism is African in origin. I mean, who was Moses if not an initiate into Egyptian mysteries?
But the point is it seems they got the FORMS of African spirituality but not the content, so when the Indo-Aryan invasions came, Judaism was easily tailored to suit dominator fantasies.
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ESSENE_RASTA
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2003, 11:42:12 AM »

From I personal INFORMation,the REligion known as "JUDAISM" was CREATED when the BABYLONIAN JEWS were in BABYWRONG.thats when the OLD TESTAMENT was INTROduced.the ORIGINAL HEBREWS had AFRICAN begginings,the PHARISEES are the KEEPERS of this RELIGION,for instance,on the JEW-WISH passover,they cookup LAMB and ting.the BETA ISRAELITE of ITIOPIA,know NOTHING of this,and NEITHER did y'shua (iyesus) and the prophets,for in JEREMIAH,jah said that he DOESNT delight in SACRIFICE or BURNT OFFERINGS,therefore the PRIESTS were CURROPTED,and KILLED the PROPHETS of JAH.thats my OVERstanding of it,SELAH

ESSENE RASTA
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ESSENE RASTA
EmpressFiYah
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2003, 11:57:51 AM »

Blessed Love:

Rootsie, your words resound honesty and truth.  I really cannot find anything to defend within your words and basically concur with your statements.  

Iyah, you said:

"Brutal environments create brutal religions."

Yes-I, and brutal mentalities.  However, its not necessarily so.  It depends on ones outlook in life.  For instance, the native American viewed brutal weather as an opportunity strengthen oneself and know oneself.  So perspective, coupled with environment plays a big role.

Also, as Rootsie so elogquently put it, Judaism is a fundamentalist religion, born out of necessity.  In a way I have to respect this way of thinking, as it is the only world "religion" or spirituality that has survived within various cultures at least 4,000 years without ever being lost, abandoned or "discovered".  Please, note that I said "world" religion, as we are all aware that AFrica has never lost their original ways of life and spirituality.  

Eternal Love
FiYah
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iyah360
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2003, 10:20:48 AM »

Peace.

"Brutal environments create brutal religions."

Yes-I, and brutal mentalities.  However, its not necessarily so.  It depends on ones outlook in life.  For instance, the native American viewed brutal weather as an opportunity strengthen oneself and know oneself.  So perspective, coupled with environment plays a big role."

Yes, TRUTH . . . Rastafari was born from out of the most degrading and brutal period of human history ever.
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scootah
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2003, 10:11:44 AM »

I find it interesting that in 1890's when the 1st contact was made of the Falasha's the Falasha's could not believe that the person that came to visit them was Jewish because he was white. Interesting to see that there was not a tradition of them seeing themselves as being any different from any other Jewish person, meaning that there was no tradtion that revealed the original jews to be white at all, at least to the Falasha's. So that leads to this question, who are the people we know as Jews today?


Rootsie:
Can you point me to more info on the Indo-aryan invasion, I am really interested in learning more of this.

Thank You
Bless
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