Blacks See Growing Values Gap Between Poor and Middle Class

[will]

Blacks See Growing Values Gap Between Poor and Middle Class
Optimism about Black Progress Declines
November 13, 2007

This is too important for Blacks everywhere, to over-LQQK... If Black optimism declines in the UNITED STATES, THEN YOU KNOW WHAT BLACKS in other countries will face..
Read the report... By following the link below,  you will get complete report including all their RAW DATA...

This P E W group is a prestiges research firm in the USA....


http://pewsocialtrends.org/pubs/700/black-public-opinion

[siger]

Can i just ask a stupid question before i offer an opinion on this matter?

... If Black optimism declines in the UNITED STATES, THEN YOU KNOW WHAT BLACKS in other countries will face..

why do you think the African-American is the torch bearer for the world's black community. it is important that i understand this, so's i know how to sculpt my opinion (and it is a burning one).

also, the report does not do much to explain the corruption or diversion of values btn the two classes, nor does it mention any of the values. it might be nice to have an idea about "black american" values.

cheers.

p.s- thanx for starting this. perhaps now we can have a reasoning session devoid of the usual trappings of pointing fingers.

[will]

Siger...

i think you asked several stupid questions in that post, but i try to explain them as best i can...

African-Americans being TORCH BEARER'S? i never said that.. U did... But let me re-phrase that statement by saying that many of the Emerging African & Island nations already have a pretty stiff divide between those that are well-off & those that have almost nothing... Right??? Correct me where i am wrong....

First of all this is a public opinion survey reflecting the views of various American citizens... And from all the data collected, the RESEARCHERS released their findings... They are that the total BLACK COMMUNITY is giving in to the pressures from the Americana GOVT., in that the BLACK community is irrevocably split for the very first time, along "CLASS-LINES"...

This was never TRUE before... As a matter of fact, US BLACK UNITY & It's willingness to work closely together for BLACK gains for all it's people is what got us to this point....  Eventho' AMERICA remains a racist society, most BLACKS (except in the southern part of the USA) had fairly-equal access to education...  When those BLACKS graduated, they had a very good chance of landing a decent JOB..

This continued until the BLACK middle-class approached near parity with their WHITE COUNTER-PARTS... When BLACKS with higher-moral-standards started to outpace the WHITES, the dominant society did a RACIAL BLACK-LASH, meaning covert measures were taken to push back BLACK GAINS...

When this didn't work fast enough for WHITES to regain economic control, they simply created suburban communities that the majority of BLACKS could not afford to move into.. Then they moved out in massive numbers, taking all their business's, jobs & available capital with them, leaving BLACKS to fend for themselves in CITIES that had no revenue base...

One-by-one, successful BLACKS have joined the WHITES again, separating themselves from the NEW-LOWER-CLASSED BLACKS... Diversity, education & affluence is cited as main reason for this separation... The successful ones are now aligning themselves squarely on the side of their WHITE FRIENDS & ASSOCIATES, saying that they now have more in common with them, than with those they left behind....

Further, they are laying blame on those poor dis-enfranchised BLACKS for the plight they find themselves in, eventho' they knew these BLACKS had virtually no opportunity to make it out of the URBAN BLIGHT that they were born in.... This less than optimistic view speaks to the fact that AMERICA is unwilling & see's no way to bridge this ever-widening GAP between UPPER & LOWER CLASS BLACKS...

Now if AMERICA, who controls the WORLD as we know it, can & will do this to it's own US MADE BLACKS, what does it have in mind for NON US BLACKS...

Case in point: Haiti; Many of the AFRICAN NATIONS like SouthAFRICA, Zimbabwe; the KONGO; most of the CARRIBEAN  Islands...  RACE & the CAPITALIST SYSTEM are more important than HUMAN RIGHTS....

But you know all of this... Where are you anyway??? Isn't there a Class division among BLACKS where you live??? If not, expect one.. If so, watch it grow... Some BLACKS will get RICHER, while many more will get increasingly poorer....

Now remember, this is a public opinion survey, but the raw data and assertions are buried there-in....

May i ask a stupid question of you??? DID YOU READ IT??? Or were you just trying to sound 'CUTE"...

[siger]

i am going to ignore the provocation...

i understand the growth of the divide in the black community. Rev. Eric Dyson calls it the emergence of "Afritocracy" and "Ghettocracy" classes; where the former tend to define themselves as base white. Bill Cosby and his Pound cake speech, for example.

my question is which "values" (as per your topic head) have been lost; neither you nor the research piece clears that up.
of course, we can go on about how WHITE some blacks feel, how WHITE this and WHITE that; but that only vents anger and doesn't aid reason.

i dont know if i'm making sense...


ps. on the question of black optimism and its far-reaching implications... i thought you might go along the lines of how american values are exported to other peoples esp. through film and music. a value change in these cultural avenues would be felt across the world.
then again, i wronged to assume your post was about values.

[will]

You are correct... It is not about VALUES... And it's not MY REPORT... As it states, it'S about UPPITY BLACKS admitting publicly, for the first time, that they are aligning themselves with WHITES, while leaving the lower class BLACKS to figure it out on their own...

i added NOTHING to the report...  My concerns has always been for UNITY...  The kind that worked so well for us in the past... Black affluence has always spear-headed the movements for upWARD MOBILITY FOR ALL...  With-out their LEADERSHIP, where would any of us be today???

Again, if White this & White that, doesn't provoke reason (sometimes with anger), inside of us, then we are LOST... Because Black/White relationships are the REAL REASON for the disparity between the RACES... You either DEAL with it COLLECTIVELY, or you contine to widen the disparity.... The condition that most BLACK PEOPLE lives in, should be enough to spur the STRONGER BLACKS, with a conscience, to move towards more UNITY, not less...

It's very easy to say, "i got mine", now you get yours".... Not all of us want to do that...  But in my opinion, that's what this reports say's LOUD & CLEAR...

Common-SENSE should tell us all, that aligning the the UPPER-class BLACKS with the dominant White society is very detrimental for all BLACKS NOT YET READY FOR PRIME TIME (and that's the majority of BLACKS)...

Are we no longer our BROTHERS-KEEPER???  Many are answering with a ressounding "NO".... How are you answering the question?

OH, and about provocations (ANIMOSITY between posters) concerning this REPORT... There would have been NONE, had you not delivered THE FIRST BLOW... BROTHA...

Peace...



 

[siger]

we both feel strongly about this issue

i agree with you completely <!> that the unity of the black community is in peril. again, i reference the silent ones here to Eric Dyson's interview on hip hop, Democracy now... he says a lot about this.

you asked about how it was where i'm from... this is something we've had for a long time. its one of the things that led me to this forum. get this...
a minister (like State secretary) had the audacity to say that the poor should all be arrested for treason; the poor constitute over 70% of the population. he is still in office.

so i understand this clearly.

[will]

Hello Siger...

Yes, this is exactly situation that i am railing against....  We have the same thing here & it get's worse every year... We do have some BLACK-politicians & Black-ness-Pimps, that takes advantage of this situation whille forging a very good living for themselves, by staying in the fore-front of organizations & rally's; giving us 'lip-service' but very little else...

When it's time to confront authority & speak directly to them about the deteriorating situations, they suddenly go mum, letting these protest fizzle-out... That way, they never have to go out on a limb, putting themselves in danger; yet, they want to ACT like they are up-front LEADING us to VICTORY...

We've not had a man willing to give it his all, since the late 'Dr. MLK'... And before him, it was Malcolm...  But even with these men, i feel that they came up short of the mark, in as much as MLK led us to the door, but stopped us from kicking the damn door down.. Had we gone all the way, at that time, while we were organized & determined, then meaningful gains could have been made...

Instead, he stopped us short of confrontation & victory, at a time when we were completely united, and were all on the same page, thirsting for from freedom and equality... He accepted small gains on our behalf, that satisfied the soft-LEADERS, standing behind him... These gains took enough pressure off the situation, that it encouraged us to dis-band for the moment, knowing that we could come back for more, later-on...

However, in an effort to prevent us from ever re-grouping in a meaningful way, they took DR, KING out...  That was like cuting off the head of a chicken... We just floundered around for a while, jumping, kicking & crying, until we BLED TO DEATH & DIED... Dr. KING actually failed us by not building an organization strong enough to carry-on effectively, in his absence....  Instead, he left behind a group of soft-men, women & children. with no leadership skills, who would prefer to pray for deliverance, rather than to confront those denying us our basic HUMAN RIGHTS....

It's been years, but SO FAR, we've received no DELIVERANCE from GOD.. We are still STUCK IN PLACE....

In MALCOLM"S case, i am still not sure what happened there...  He was certainly a strong dynamic force that could have taken us all the way, had he not mis-handled his situation with Elijah... But he chose to step-away from the NOI, in such a way that his life was threatened... He then turned to his NATURAL ENEMY (white people) for help; they refused to assist him...

NONE on our so-called BLACK LEADERS would go to his aid either, so he was consumed by the in-action of us all... Most of our present LEADERS were available including 'DR KINGS' group; yet none reached out to MALCOLM... He gave his LIFE in the service of BLACK people & their plight... We benefitted mightily from his actions; we MOURNED his passsing in a moving memorial.. In hind-sight, we all have a measure of 'affinity' for him deep inside our hearts....He is still 'toast-ed' to this day; but in his DARKEST HOURS, we collectively abandoned him... He was there for us... But where were we during his time of need???

i am perplexed by his acceptance of the orthodox muslim faith; and the comfort he claims to have found with some blond-blue-eyed muslims during his trek to mecca... Like these people were not driven by the same RACIAL HATRED, that drives his NATURAL ENEMY... Don't they beleive in slavery also??? Are they not still taking & holding SLAVES, as we speak? LQQK at the SUDAN... (Perhaps, Muslims hide these facts during their Hajj...)

i find it very strange that all our prominent LEADERS opt for acceptance & inclusion with white people, or MUSLIMS, at the LEADERSHIP LEVEL.... While the majority of our people (the poor, the dis-advantaged, the dis-enfranchised ones) sit hungry, diseased & suffering at the bottom of so-called civilized societies...

There's no way that we, as AFRICAN PEOPLE, are better off today...

So far, none of these attempts at ONE-NESS has benefitted our poor; not even one-little-bit; so why must our LEADERS insist on TAKING US THERE???

Will it ever work??? Has it ever worked, ANYWHERE??? Or, will we (the people) be forced to find OUR OWN SOLUTIONS??