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Author Topic: CONVERSATION WITH MOMA AFRICA  (Read 35570 times)
out_of_Zion
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« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2003, 03:14:49 PM »

"Ever wonder why there is so much funding for Christian fundamentalism by the powers that be in these times? It keeps people in a state of perpetuating the system for a longer period of time in hopes of the glory of a future time(exactly where they want us). "

That is very on point, accurately stated, and I completely agree.  There has to be a balance point, a hybrid, between faith and action...
You look back at the facists throughout history, and the comments of atheists, and they know the truth from the outside, that religion does serve as an "opiate to the masses."  The key, though, is to gain the spiritual enlightenment without a complete enslavement in the here and now.

The I also does agree that we can attain to a Christ-like state.  In fact we are called to.  Paul called Christ the "exemplar of our faith," and in that we are to use Him as an example, not an object of worship so I agree with the I there too.  But when it does come right down to it, despite all efforts we make as it is, the ultimate redemption will come at the hands of JAH and will completely and utterly shock the nonbelievers of Babylon who think their "silver and gold" (metaphor) can redeem their selfishly lived lives.

The I just wants you to stay spiritually awake at the same time you live in this system as it is because it's our spirituality and soul that prevents us from becoming as empty & lifeless as the ones that are ruining this world, ya agree?

JAH spirit be with ya
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Therefore, become imitators of JAH, as beloved children - Ephesians 5:1
iyah360
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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2003, 08:38:48 AM »

I just re-read how this post had started and noticed how a change came when out_of_zion made a statement about how we have to wait a bit longer for the "kingdom" to come. I noticed that with this statement, there was a very missionary like assumption made on the part of out_of_zion, which is that African people do not have the full truth unless they embrace the Christian doctrine as espoused by this statement: "Eden will be back brother (Rev 21:3,4) and ya can return to africa if ya desire.  The meek'll inherit the earth (Mt 5)...and she babylon will fall.  We just gotta wait some more for JAH kingdom to come"

Africa is the place of the birth of mankind, civilization, religion. Christianity is a re-interpreted remnent of African religion. To say that the originators do not know the truth is racist in and of itself. If the I would like to be Christian, that is all well and good, it seems that you have some grasp of issues for YOURSELF through the path you have chosen. The problem is that with the attitude you espouse Africans to follow(wait for redemption while more and more is taken from you in this life--and many have nothing), you are not fully grasping the reality of the situation and thus are really not helping the situation. I do not know personally the I's background or struggle. I would be willing to bet though that you do not have a sufficient overstanding as to what Africans have given up and have lost!  It is our duty to overstand as much as possible so we do not continue on a destructive path. True Christ principles originated in Africa, and while not called Christian, have existed in Africa for thousands of years. It would be good for the I to OVERSTAND that even though you think that you espouse a rather universal doctrine of redemption, the doctrine you espouse has been colored by the conquesting fantasies of the originators of the Roman church who used the religion as a tool of unifying peoples into a vast empire. Christ principles from other cultures do not hold this same type of spin to them. You could very well be unconsciously propogating that which you SEEMINGLY lash out against the most(Babylonian/Roman imperialism).

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out_of_Zion
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« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2003, 01:31:27 PM »

"Africa is the place of the birth of mankind, civilization, religion. Christianity is a re-interpreted remnent of African religion. To say that the originators do not know the truth is racist in and of itself."

The first statement there is undenyable, but the second is not.  Christianity was a build-on fulfillment of Judiasm, which if properly believed, traces back to the very roots of mankind - through oral and written history & tradition.  There is a lot of African influence, obviously, as many Egyptians joined Moses & the Jews on their exodus out of Egypt...but to say that Christianity is a re-interpreted remnent of African religion is to say that it is Christianity is a dependent religion, having no merit of its own, which would explain why you haven't embraced any of the scriptural references I made as anything more than words.  The truth is what you wrote, though, that Christ-like principles existed in Africa prior to Christ, b/c they existed EVERYWHERE prior to Christ.  The simplistic view of Christianity or ANY religion is simply the golden rule and law of universal love.  If that's not part of a religion, of what use is it?

As for what Africans have lost - how can I not see that?  Though I am not of African blood, it's easy to see they have been victimized ever since white men claimed a hold on what's been perceived as the "modern era" with slavery, and later half-freedoms in most every developed country (the possible exceptions being in the Latin world).  The resulting effect is an oppressed state that has not allowed Africans to recover economically - and from that - social problems have followed.  Then, to compound the problem, those on the outside have done little except blame the black communities for being responsible for problems that are inevitable with the social injustices that are nearly ubiquitous.  It eventually becomes a futile blame game that politicians do not even have to deal with usually...because their motive is votes & money, neither of which usually come from the areas afflicted.  

What could allieviate this?  A revolution?  A lot of time?  I just don't see any panacea to it all short of a complete shift of power, the kind that is described Biblically.  That is why the I makes mention of it as the solution, not as a means to "propagate what I am lashing out at" as you suggest.  But the only way I see the Anglo-American imperialistic power coming to its end is through a chaotic overturn of everything that is.  They dominate world trade, armery...and yes, mainstream religion.  

The devestation of the harlot in Revelation perfectly symbolizes what is to occur to this "disgusting thing" (the UN) and the triumph of the righteous. It seems that you believe the book to be a tool of the Church, but the I doesn't view it that way.  Instead, INI see a book that is condemning the very ones that claim to "believe" in it ---AND--- INI also believe you can embrace the Book, the Word, and Christianity, WITHOUT embracing the hypocritical masses that claim to follow it.  

Ghandi upon reading the Bible said, "Christianity is such a wonderful idea.  What a pity it's never been tried." In it's true form, it is being tried; but the truth and the purity of it is never seen.  Why?  It doesn't sit well with the fat man on his sofa that he's not the one doing it.
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Therefore, become imitators of JAH, as beloved children - Ephesians 5:1
iyah360
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« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2003, 02:10:43 PM »

"The first statement there is undenyable, but the second is not.  Christianity was a build-on fulfillment of Judiasm, which if properly believed, traces back to the very roots of mankind - through oral and written history & tradition.  There is a lot of African influence, obviously, as many Egyptians joined Moses & the Jews on their exodus out of Egypt...but to say that Christianity is a re-interpreted remnent of African religion is to say that it is Christianity is a dependent religion, having no merit of its own, which would explain why you haven't embraced any of the scriptural references I made as anything more than words."  

If you think Judaism is special and that "Jews" actually were in Egypt and fled and all the other myths that the old testament talks about, then that right there is the starting point of a failure to grasp African history. Modern Jews claim historical validity for things which were originally African astro-mythology. They took mythological figures(Abraham in Ur, Moses, the Exodus of the chosen ones out of Egypt, etc.) which represented various bodies in the heavens and movements of these bodies and made them actual historical figures. I have posted this information at various times on this site, it is still up if you would like to look at it.


"As for what Africans have lost - how can I not see that?  
Though I am not of African blood, it's easy to see they have been victimized ever since white men claimed a hold on what's been perceived as the "modern era" with slavery, and later half-freedoms in most every developed country (the possible exceptions being in the Latin world).  The resulting effect is an oppressed state that has not allowed Africans to recover economically - and from that - social problems have followed.  Then, to compound the problem, those on the outside have done little except blame the black communities for being responsible for problems that are inevitable with the social injustices that are nearly ubiquitous.  It eventually becomes a futile blame game that politicians do not even have to deal with usually...because their motive is votes & money, neither of which usually come from the areas afflicted."  

It is SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT. It is the wholesale dissolution of culture and erasing of history which is further propogated by ones who advocate the bible story of a world 6000 years old and places the glory of mankind on people who have benefited on a wholesale basis from the looting and raping of Africa on a cultural, economic and psychological level.
 
"What could allieviate this?  A revolution?  A lot of time?  I just don't see any panacea to it all short of a complete shift of power, the kind that is described Biblically.  That is why the I makes mention of it as the solution, not as a means to "propagate what I am lashing out at" as you suggest.  But the only way I see the Anglo-American imperialistic power coming to its end is through a chaotic overturn of everything that is.  They dominate world trade, armery...and yes, mainstream religion."  

The answer is already prepared by the powers that be and this is the solution we are going to get if we continue to wait for them to fulfill the book.

"The devestation of the harlot in Revelation perfectly symbolizes what is to occur to this "disgusting thing" (the UN) and the triumph of the righteous."

The powers that be have their own interpretation of it and their will is what is going to shape our destiny as we continue to wait.  I too wish for something completely not counted on to turn their world upside down and give power back to the people, and perhaps they have dug their own grave unknowingly. Their all-seeing eye can't see everything.  Wink

"It seems that you believe the book to be a tool of the Church, but the I doesn't view it that way.  Instead, INI see a book that is condemning the very ones that claim to "believe" in it ---AND--- INI also believe you can embrace the Book, the Word, and Christianity, WITHOUT embracing the hypocritical masses that claim to follow it."

I believe the book to be that tool because that is how it has been used in its history. I think their are deeper meanings to the scriptures and I myself have gained much from reading it though. And I find much of it to be allegorical, things which can be found in other cultural mythologies as well.

"Ghandi upon reading the Bible said, "Christianity is such a wonderful idea.  What a pity it's never been tried." In it's true form, it is being tried; but the truth and the purity of it is never seen.  Why?  It doesn't sit well with the fat man on his sofa that he's not the one doing it."

I do not know exactly what Ghandi is referring to in this quote. He very well could be referring to the universal aspects of "Christ's teachings"(at least the revealed ones) which indeed have not been practiced in any meaningful way by the church and associated henchmen.



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Rootsie
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« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2003, 02:21:41 PM »

"What could allieviate this?  A revolution?  A lot of time?  I just don't see any panacea to it all short of a complete shift of power, the kind that is described Biblically.  That is why the I makes mention of it as the solution, not as a means to "propagate what I am lashing out at" as you suggest.  But the only way I see the Anglo-American imperialistic power coming to its end is through a chaotic overturn of everything that is.  They dominate world trade, armery...and yes, mainstream religion."

I can empathize with you here because my analysis of Babylon is exactly what turned me into an apocalyptic thinker. But I came to realize this was backwards thinking. "Well it's realy bad and we need a complete revolution (Literally a 'turning over') so I will believe that Jesus is to return at the 'end of time' and set everything in order." Even though I never could quite buy into this, my attitude was similar. I was 'waiting for a miracle.' Well lo and behold. It's here. It turns out it's us.

I believed this because it is a 'useful fiction', one that made me able to keep going when I saw and felt so deeply all the things that are wrong. But it was not courageous.

It is debilitating and profoundly disempowering to believe that we can ulitmately have no effect on the human condition. It is also mistaken. And it is extremely convenient! We can blame 'them' without seeing how we actually materially benefit from the way things are (if we are white and live in the West), and it gives us a great excuse for doing nothing.

Maybe it depends on where you think divinity resides. If you think it's exclusively somewhere off-planet, something other than your own highest and truest self, I guess you end up in the waiting game.

When you think in terms of linear time, you have to wait till the END of it for your redemption. When you don't, the fall, judgement, redemption...well they are every moment. And the utimate responsibility lies within you. That is what our ancient ancestors knew. That is what Christianity has lost.

Revolution, rather than redemption from 'out there', is indeed what is called for. Turn it over. See it new. Revoltuion is what happens inside of you.

If you think you have to wait, then surely you will.
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iyah360
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2003, 02:57:46 PM »

"Revolution, rather than redemption from 'out there', is indeed what is called for. Turn it over. See it new. Revoltuion is what happens inside of you."


Yes, the negation of the inner power of the Most High within us is THE ULTIMATE TOOL that they can use against us.

It is obvious in the media the attempt to keep us fixated on our lower nature of fear, sex and impulse. Obsession with idols is the tool to keep us indifferent to their games of control. People are fixated on movie stars, pop stars, cars, houses, materials, their image, gossip, drama, michael jackson, etc, etc., an endless cycle of fuel for our inner fire to burn on as our lives burn out. This is all an attempt to fixate us on our lower nature.

The power of I and I when fully manifested indeed smashes most of the power "they" hold against us. Self-control of the inner man. IANDI will cause profound change in the world in which we live. If we harnass our own energy, our own thought generator(in the beginning was the word, and the word manifest itself in flesh), that energy is no longer for sale! Free your mind and the rest will follow!

Think of a field filled with pieces. If one piece moves, the whole shifts.
 
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out_of_Zion
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2003, 03:03:02 PM »

"I do not know exactly what Ghandi is referring to in this quote. He very well could be referring to the universal aspects of "Christ's teachings"(at least the revealed ones) which indeed have not been practiced in any meaningful way by the church and associated henchmen."

Yes - he was saying that professed Christians never had accomplished a Christ-like church.

"It is SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT. It is the wholesale dissolution of culture and erasing of history which is further propogated by ones who advocate the bible story of a world 6000 years old and places the glory of mankind on people who have benefited on a wholesale basis from the looting and raping of Africa on a cultural, economic and psychological level."

This is a part that I am removed from.  The I has never been taught all of the true history of Africans because of exactly what you say, an "erasing" of history; reminds me of Orwell's 1984 quite a bit when I think of it.  All conscious thinkers quickly realize in high school that the history they are taught is terrifically tainted & innacurate.  The sad fact is there is scarcely a source to replace it with facts.  I have a book called Lies My Teacher Told Me written by a man named James W. Loewen and he takes a look at the true history of the Federal Govt and "The Disappearance of the Recent Past."  While it does not focus on black history specifically, it definitely highlights the phenomenon that you're speaking of and I know it exists...

You tell me that a lot of the Hebrew scriptures originated from African myths.  I would be interested in reading of it if ya could link me to it.  What kind of makes me weary of reading so much of that type of thing is the I reaches a point where all INI can say to myself is "What is sacred anymore?"  I don't know if you've heard of or read Joseph Campbell's "The Hero With a Thousand Faces," but it scopes out so many religions and ancient stories, it makes one begin to have Voltaire-like questions - that religion, and any god that exists, is a pure invention of man.  And we know what happens to a godless culture...we live in one.  I'm not entirely certain what I'm trying to explain by saying that, but maybe you understand my failed attempt.

All of it eventually traces me back to one simple question:  What can man really know for certain?

iyah - That said, does the I believe that there will be a restoration of paradise and ultimate redemption of the righteous, or do you believe that to be a mythological creation of mankind?
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Therefore, become imitators of JAH, as beloved children - Ephesians 5:1
Rootsie
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« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2003, 06:41:38 PM »

"...life is paradise, and we are all in paradise, but we won't see it; if we would, we should have heaven on Earth the next day."      
Fyodor Dostoevsky
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iyah360
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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2003, 07:56:14 AM »

Peace.

Here are some links to start you in researching the African origins of Judaism and Christianity.


!JACOB, ISRAEL of TSWA(PYGMY) PEOPLE!
http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1069957148

RED SEA PASSAGE FABLE OF THE NAMA PEOPLE
http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1068485221

Exodus Story of Bible = Egyptian astro-mythology
http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1068480104

"UR" IS CELESTIAL, NOT GEOGRAPHICAL!!
http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1068483829

THE EXODUS STORY OF THE MERU of KENYA
http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1066833814

Text from the book, Hebrew and Other Creations, by Gerald Massey
http://africawithin.com/massey/gml1_hebrew.htm

Text from the book, The Historical Jesus and Mythical Christ, by Gerald Massey
http://africawithin.com/massey/gml1_jesuschrist.htm

A comparative list of some pre-existing and pre-Christian data which were christianized in the Canonical Gospels and the Book of Revelation."  
http://www.theosophical.ca/AncientEgyptAppendix.htm


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aldred
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2004, 05:36:02 PM »

DON'T BURY YOUR THOUGHTS MY BREDREN!!!!
Black people start looking at your one another, really take time and check our beauty, not from THAT MAN'S ice vision,but with warmth and love for our one another.

I am not a violent person, I am very peace loving, but the way things are going, it is really time for us to take up the reign, for it is necessary to have freedom by the necessary means, WE are the greatest force on this DIRT, WE are the greatest minds of this EARTH, Reason enough for THAT MAN to keep I and I down for so long, that is why THAT MAN has done everything in his power to keep I and I away from our own greatness, infiltrated our ways, our lives, our very minds, stolen our culture, even tried to steel our GOD, just look at the way things are happening now a days, THAT MAN is now so blatant, he does not give two, if he is found out , to be lying, eh! watchya man I could go on and on and on, THAT MAN is the cause, like AIDS. THAT MAN has brutalized I and I for so long, has held I and I under pressure for so long that, a lot of us think it is normal reality that what's happening to us, and what THAT MAN does to us, is quite normal. What THAT MAN , if a one can really call THAT MAN, has practiced on the black man, woman and children, over centuries, total control, THAT MAN is now trying to implicate that on the whole world.....I have to stop here because I am getting furious....NONE OF THAT MAN and his brethren have a right to mingle in our affairs, because only he or she who feels it knows it; ALL WE HAVE HAD OVER THE LAST SO AND SO HUNDRED YEARS HAS BEEN OUR FREEDOM OF MIND PROJECTION..... DREAM..... LIKE MARLEY SAID, NUH BURY YU THOUGHTS PUT YU VISIONS TO REALITY.....PERIOD

Take a look at the map of Mamma Africa, and you will see a SKULL, Italy a boot, U.K. the witch on her broom etc,

So listen:
Africa the skull
Africa the head
Africa the cranium of the world
Africa you are dread
So many mysteries
Africa you are dread
So many mysteries
Africa you are yea! yea! yea!
Africa!
The head so dread has bled
And Africa still bleeding until this day man.

JAH bless Rasta!
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