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Author Topic: Babylon is Evil?  (Read 17836 times)
Nazarite
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« on: May 13, 2004, 12:32:05 AM »

Before ones pelt a fire on I,im asking this question on a NON-IBLICAL perspective.besides the things that InI get from the Ible that Baby-wrong was a place of "Pagans" and idol worshipers and things of that,what proof do ones have that this nation was full of stuppidity?for Incient antiquity tells me that a quite few of Mystical men have "Reasoned" or "Mingled" with their thoughts about the paths of righteousness.surely it couldnt be more evil than Amerikkka,right?Selah

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Selassie I /Empress Menen-Y'shua/Mary Magdalene,Perfect Balance
iyah360
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2004, 09:49:02 AM »

Quote
what proof do ones have that this nation was full of stuppidity?


babylon was the inheritor of the same knowledge which built the nile valley civilizations.

knowledge is power, how one uses the power is the question.
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Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2004, 10:33:18 AM »

Quote


babylon was the inheritor of the same knowledge which built the nile valley civilizations.

knowledge is power, how one uses the power is the question.


I agree.
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Rootsie
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2004, 12:01:17 PM »

I think that the reason for calling all oppressive and corrupt systems 'Babylon' is the Jews' captivity in Babylon for 80 years around 650BC, and that is why all the 'great whore Babylon' language comes up in the Bible too.
What is ironic is that the Jews came out of the captivity after having been members of Babylonian society with a great respect for Babylon and its civilization and state religion, and when they returned to Israel they set out to create just such a state religion, only based on the worship of YHWH. So, they closed down everybody else's temples (YHWH had never been worshiped alone before this time), wrote down the Bible, and firmed up the hierarchical priesthood. So I would say they were inspired by Babylon in many ways.
I find it hard to stomach when the Bible calls the Great Goddess the 'great whore.'
It is interesting to look up the origins of the word 'pagan'.
As for idol-worship, this has been completely misunderstood by modern. Animals were never worshiped by the Egyptians for example, but understood as symbols and representations of divine principles.
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Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2004, 12:36:00 PM »

Quote
I think that the reason for calling all oppressive and corrupt systems 'Babylon' is the Jews' captivity in Babylon for 80 years around 650BC, and that is why all the 'great whore Babylon' language comes up in the Bible too.
What is ironic is that the Jews came out of the captivity after having been members of Babylonian society with a great respect for Babylon and its civilization and state religion, and when they returned to Israel they set out to create just such a state religion, only based on the worship of YHWH. So, they closed down everybody else's temples (YHWH had never been worshiped alone before this time), wrote down the Bible, and firmed up the hierarchical priesthood. So I would say they were inspired by Babylon in many ways.
I find it hard to stomach when the Bible calls the Great Goddess the 'great whore.'
It is interesting to look up the origins of the word 'pagan'.
As for idol-worship, this has been completely misunderstood by modern. Animals were never worshiped by the Egyptians for example, but understood as symbols and representations of divine principles.


I agree again....it is interesting how patrarchial tendancies and lack of respect for the divine feminine are so prevalant in the Helio Biblio...very disturbing since the masses of people follow it's teachings(Judeo-Christianity, Islam, even Rastafari "sometimes")
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iyah360
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2004, 02:08:22 PM »

Quote
I think that the reason for calling all oppressive and corrupt systems 'Babylon' is the Jews' captivity in Babylon for 80 years around 650BC, and that is why all the 'great whore Babylon' language comes up in the Bible too.
What is ironic is that the Jews came out of the captivity after having been members of Babylonian society with a great respect for Babylon and its civilization and state religion, and when they returned to Israel they set out to create just such a state religion, only based on the worship of YHWH. So, they closed down everybody else's temples (YHWH had never been worshiped alone before this time), wrote down the Bible, and firmed up the hierarchical priesthood. So I would say they were inspired by Babylon in many ways.
I find it hard to stomach when the Bible calls the Great Goddess the 'great whore.'
It is interesting to look up the origins of the word 'pagan'.
As for idol-worship, this has been completely misunderstood by modern. Animals were never worshiped by the Egyptians for example, but understood as symbols and representations of divine principles.


It is amazing how much of this ancient state structure of Babylon is copied today in Western nations. We can look to the past to see where civilizations go wrong, and the old stories ring true in modern times -  corruption in high and low places - in the microcosmic hierarchy of my physical and spiritual body or the macrocosmic hierarchical apparatus of social authority.

The Jews in this day use many Babylonian words in their rituals, calenders, etc. It would not be too far of a stretch to beleive that some still worship Babylonian concepts of deities.

I think the bible does a good job of dirtying the name of the cultures from which Jews owe their knowledge to.

The true followers of the ineffible name and I would argue the true "Jews"(if one takes that to mean montheistic with no graven images) were the Mbuti in the forests of inner Africa.

. . .

I think an idol can be overstood in a religious sense, as ANY THING - such as a symbol - whose purpose of being a finite representation of a higher idea -  becomes what is worshipped rather than the sublime truth for which it stands.
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Nazarite
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2004, 02:42:22 PM »

"The Jews in this day use many Babylonian words in their rituals, calenders, etc. It would not be too far of a stretch to beleive that some still worship Babylonian concepts of deities"

yesseree,especially the fact that in the Early parts of the ible,you would see that they had Names for their days of the month,they would only say things like,the Third day of the Second Month and things like that,but when they came back from Babylon,they added Babylonian names to their Days and Months.

we can also see it in their Priesthood as in the ible itself says that God doesnt "Delight" in sacrifices:
According to the Bible, GOD Himself gave humans no command to sacrifice animals. God, speaking through the prophet Jeremiah speaks out against the Levitical commands for animal sacrifice and reveals how this was not commanded by Him (God)...."My people, some sacrifices you burn completely on the altar, and some you are permitted to eat. But what I, the Lord, say is that you might as well eat them all. I gave your ancestors no commands about burnt offerings or any other kinds of sacrifices...but I did command them to obey me..." Jeremiah 7:21,22 TEV (Again, keep in mind that if you look this passage up in the NIV, you will find that they have added the word JUST, which does not appear in the original Hebrew, and this changes God's original meaning into its opposite.)

God Does Not Delight In Animal Sacrifice:

The prophet Hosea says:..."They love sacrifice, they sacrifice flesh and eat it, but the Lord has no delight in them." Hosea 8:13 RSV. Also, the prophet Isaiah on a number of occasions condemns the Levitical practice of animal sacrifice: "He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations...they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. Isaiah 66:3&4 KJV.

Also from Isaiah we read:..."To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood...put away the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil..." Isaiah 1:11-16 KJV.

Continuing with the words of God through His prophet Isaiah we read:... "And in that day the Lord God of hosts called you to weeping and mourning, to the shaving off of all your hair [in humiliation] and to the girding with sackcloth. But instead, see the pleasure and mirth, slaying oxen and killing sheep, eating flesh and drinking wine [with the idea] Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!....And the Lord of hosts revealed Himself in my ears, [as He said] Surely this unatoned sin shall not be purged from you until [you are punished --and the punishment will be] death, says the Lord God of hosts. Isaiah 22:12-14 TAB. It is obvious that God does not want, need, nor does He desire us to sacrifice animals to Him.

i wonder where they got those sacrifices from?
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Selassie I /Empress Menen-Y'shua/Mary Magdalene,Perfect Balance
iyah360
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2004, 08:48:13 AM »

Quote

I find it hard to stomach when the Bible calls the Great Goddess the 'great whore.'


A positive picture of the great goddess or the queen of heaven is found also in Revelations . . . this is the same character of Nut, the Egyptian goddess of the sky:

"Revelation 12
1   And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2   And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3   And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4   And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5   And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6   And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7   And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8   And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10   And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12   Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13   And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14   And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15   And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16   And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17   And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

As to the origination of the character of the whore of Babylon:

"In Revelation the mother of mystery is called “Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots and of abominations of the earth”, who has the name of mystery written on her forehead (XVII. 5). But there was an earlier Babylon in Egypt, known to the secret wisdom, which is traditionally identified with the locality of Coptos, nominally the seat of Kep, the Kamite mother of the mysteries. The mother of mystery did not originate with the scarlet woman of Babylon (nor as the red rag of the Protestants), although the title of the Great Harlot was applied to her also, who was the mother of harlots and to whom the maiden-tributes were religiously furnished in that city. Hers is a figure of unknown antiquity in the astronomical mythology, which was constellated as the red hippopotamus that preceded the Great Bear. The red hippopotamus (Apt) had already become the scarlet lady in the Ritual. Hence the Great Mother, as Sekhet-Bast, who is higher than all the gods, and is the only one who stands above her father, is called the lady of the scarlet-coloured garment (Rit., ch. 164, Naville). The Kamite Constellation of the “birthplace” may also serve to show cause why the “great harlot” should have been abused so badly in the Book of Revelation. The creatory of the Great Mother was depicted in the sign of the meshken to indicate the place of bringing forth by the cow of heaven whose “thigh” is the emblem of great magical power in the hieroglyphics. The mother of mystery also carries “in her hand a golden cup full of abominations, even the unclean things of her fornication” (XVII. 4), such as the mystery of fecundation by water, which was the primitive mystery of Kep. This was symbolised in Egypt by the water-vase, and constellated in the sign of Krater, the urn of the inundation. It has been shown that the gods of the Egyptian mythology originated in seven elemental forces that were born of earth, the mother of life, and who were then continued in a variety of characters as the primordial seven powers. These are reproduced as the progeny of the mother-earth, where they are called “the kings of the earth” over whom “the first-born of the dead” is to become the ruler (I. 5) as Jesus in the Book of Revelation, the same as Horus (or Iu) in the Ritual, the god; “who giveth light by means of his own body” (ch. 83). The astronomical mythology was taught in mysteries by the mystery teachers of the heavens. One of the chief of these was “the mystery of the seven stars” ; the seven that are described in the Ritual as “the seven glorious ones, [Page 699] “the seven spirits of fire”, “the seven great spirits”, who are also termed “the lords of eternity”. As never-setting stars the seven were beyond the bounds of time; hence they became the witnesses for eternal continuity. Thus seven stars that never set were made a group of witnesses for the eternal in the eschatology. These in the Book of Revelation are the seven spirits of God, the seven spirits of fire, the seven eyes, the seven golden lamps, or lampstands; as variously typified “before the throne” on the celestial summit."

- from "Ancient Egypt, Light of the World - BOOK XI", Gerald Massey




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out_of_Zion
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2004, 09:21:12 PM »

As far as Babylon goes in Revelation, you have to remember it is a symbol.  I'm obviously not saying anything here that many don't already realize as many of us denote it to be a symbol of oppressive imperial & colonialistic powers.  INI denote it to be the world empire of political & false religious systems - that is all of Christendom & all other religions and political-religious state systems.  It's an interconnected network that is wrought with discord - CONFUSION - literally "Babel" => BABYLON, the Great, mother of the harlots...

If anyone wants to reason further on this particular node let the I know and I will provide some scriptural reasonings, but INI just wanted to state my opinion on the matter as.  Blessings.
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Therefore, become imitators of JAH, as beloved children - Ephesians 5:1
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