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25910 Posts in 9966 Topics by 982 Members Latest Member: - Ferguson Most online today: 37 (July 03, 2005, 06:25:30 PM)
+  Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum
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| | |-+  How to get to heaven when you die
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Author Topic: How to get to heaven when you die  (Read 183702 times)
guybaux
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Roots


« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2005, 04:40:52 PM »

With regard to fanaticism, what you say is mostly correct. The issue is not the bible, the moslems are more fanatic.. black and white... , the real issues are indoctrination and ideology. It is more than a connumdrom. Every nation, every people who have any sense would indoctrinate their new members..kids...or other volenteers into their system.  If they did not their system would disappear and probably them along with it. The big question then is why some people ..communities..do not see the need to have their young fully brought up into their system.

It is not relegion but ideolofy. What we call relegion are ancient ideologies that have lost their grip because of changing times; knowledge, means of productiong and technologies.
Communist were not less fanatic than moslems or christians. No were capitalist when confronting communists, they were all prepared to destroy the planet.

The ancient ideologies remain relavant because they have dimentions that are mysterious to the common man. There will have to be a change it their relevance is to endure.
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XFRODOBAGGINSX
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Roots


« Reply #76 on: May 01, 2005, 07:59:30 PM »

The truth is the word of God, which is the bible.
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guybaux
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Roots


« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2005, 03:09:20 AM »

Which god?

The Ancient explanations of our reality gave rise to various world views or cosmologies.  If  you personify these, which all humans seems inclined to do, then they end up with gods. Reasoning backwards, they arrive at the notion of one god that created the others and everything else.

Naturally, all these explanations are not equal nor equally useful.
Nor should we assume that their originators were idiots or had some great malignant purpose, passing down to us conceptions totally unfounded in nature. This is most unlikely, since whatever they thought up was also used by them.

All this is to say, as writ in the psalms, "the heaven declare his handy work......". We all see this but interpret differently. Some interpretations are slightly wrong and some are very wrong. We been  a "little higher than the beast of the field", how do we know which is the perfect interpretation?

We were not there, 32Ad or 742 Ad. We take what is given to us and most of us (globally) really do just that.

Hence in Moslem countries most of the people are Moslems, in Christian countries likewise. It is not because these others are idiots why they believe it is because they are indoctrinated in childhood and so were we.

So, "The truth is the word of God, which is the bible." is just one solution to an equation that has many solutions that are being practically applied all over the world.




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gman
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AfricaSpeaks


« Reply #78 on: May 02, 2005, 08:37:14 AM »

Rastafari is all about getting to heaven while you are alive. People like "frodo" will never overstand that.
Misery loves company, that's why fundies like him want to convert people so much.
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XFRODOBAGGINSX
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Roots


« Reply #79 on: May 02, 2005, 10:41:31 PM »

The God of the bible is the only true God.  The Lord, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, these three are one.

I am not miserable YOU are.  I have peace of knowing where I am going when I die, do you?
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jemba
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YENGE BANTU


« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2005, 10:31:46 AM »

According to the scriptures 100% percent of the world is going to hell, we commit more sins in our lives then we do good acts before dieing. You would have to be a Buddhist monk to get into the Christian heaven, even Christians them selves worship god only on Sundays, their to busy to dedicate their lives to him.
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Think Clear BE Clear>>>>Always Analyze never Dismiss We all are here to learn>>>>> this earth is a BIG class Room
Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2005, 11:51:36 AM »

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The God of the bible is the only true God.  The Lord, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, these three are one.


Why?

I'll answer my own question. Because the Hebrew version of God is the one with dominant political power in this day and age. This political power came from European empirical expansionism starting with the consolidation of the Roman empire under the state religion of the Hellenistic version of X-tianity instituted by Constantine, and continuing through the age of capitalism, direct colonialsim, and slavery, and now economic imperialism and neo-colonialism. The same system Rastafarians(and all other like minded African centered folk, as well as others non Euro-centered people) are against, and must DESTROY because of the inherent massive oppression and exploitation that was and IS it's target GOAL in formation!

Why come to a site like this with such dribble?

Run way missionary man!

Of course you will state something to the effect of... It's because it says so in the Helio Biblio and because you believe it to be that way.   Sleeping
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XFRODOBAGGINSX
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Roots


« Reply #82 on: May 04, 2005, 10:41:10 PM »

I am not a Catholic and am very different from them.  I believe what the bible says.  They teach their own church false docrines which contradict the bible.  My church has never been associated with them.
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jemba
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YENGE BANTU


« Reply #83 on: May 05, 2005, 07:40:10 AM »

There are some people who will never have the ability to develop free thinking
If you don’t ask questions you don’t get answers.

The people who don’t get answers get orders and Christians don’t have the abilities to give me the answers I am looking for.

Where is god?

Where is heaven?

What happens after death?

The bible has not answered these questions even for Christians themselves, the bible only makes them believe that there is a god not see or hear or feel or touch.
If humans beings can’t experience god with their fives senses they will not be able to explain what or who is god.

So they put them selves in an elusion and pretend to believe in god or a god because they have no explanations within their range.  


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Think Clear BE Clear>>>>Always Analyze never Dismiss We all are here to learn>>>>> this earth is a BIG class Room
guybaux
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Roots


« Reply #84 on: May 05, 2005, 10:50:48 AM »

Quote
Rastafari is all about getting to heaven while you are alive. People like "frodo" will never overstand that.
Misery loves company, that's why fundies like him want to convert people so much.



A persons emotional state should not bear on their argument. The question is do they make reasonable propositions and do they respond  to propositions as if they understood.
In this case, no. Maybe his computer is programmed to spit out, “The God of the bible is the only true God….etc.”
By all means defend your beliefs but if you really think  they must be true, them you are believing that you are infallible. Hence you are the veritable god himself.

Just stop and cast your mind around. All over the world people are defending religious systems into which they were inducted as children. Even if the bible is the word of god this is still true. We did not go up mount Sinai and discover it, and we cannot prove nor disprove that claim.

But the notion of heaven on earth is very alluring. Do no hide it from us. Let us know where or how to  find this great beneficence.
Furious 3
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guybaux
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Roots


« Reply #85 on: May 05, 2005, 10:53:18 AM »

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According to the scriptures 100% percent of the world is going to hell, we commit more sins in our lives then we do good acts before dieing. ........



According to Christian belief sinning does not follow rules of arithmetic, hence one act  of forgiveness can wipe our a life time of sin. This is problematic but the blood of Jesus can over come it. There are things that are beyond our understanding. Perhaps it does work we just do not understand it yet.  

Take a stone person who knows nothing of electricity into your home and say to him/her press that button and you will get light.
May be this person is genius in his stone age village and has a good working knowledge of the world and “knows”  that nothing works like that. He would be justified to say that the proposition is  nonsense. But he would not get the light if he does press the button.

Besides some realities are psychological and we know that for human beings such realities can  become more important that the physical. This is a component of their nature. It would be illogical, unwise and will prove fetal to build a social theory…system…. that denies human psychological realities.



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guybaux
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Roots


« Reply #86 on: May 05, 2005, 11:00:05 AM »

Quote


Why?

I'll answer my own question. Because the Hebrew version of God is the one with dominant political power in this day and age. This political power came from European empirical expansionism starting with the consolidation ..............................   Sleeping





What you say here is widely accepted but there is some implications that are unsettling.
You seem to say that Constantine and his contemporaries put together a  system and with their great foresight and wisdom could see that it would evolved into a global hegemony about this time. Hence you impute to them god like skills and great malice. The history does not suggest that at all.

The people who dominate global affairs are west Europeans. All the other Europeans and white people are hangers on. They are in the same category like the Asians and the Africans. That is why they were the second world.


The Romans were in Western Europe as you said but the relationship is some thing like that of Jamaica and England in our day.  The Jamaicans  have parliamentary democracy because they are familiar with it and it is one of the most successful systems going. There are many individuals in Jamaica that are British or part British and that is kind of relationship that the west Europeans have with Ancient Rome.

During the middle ages the Europeans struggled to maintain independence of their home lands.  Spain and Portugal were taken over, southern France and Germany were battle grounds, most of Eastern Europe was conquered. The struggle was long and hard, over seven hundred years. The Europeans were fighting on their home turf, they had the advantages, finally they won.  This has nothing to do with Constantine and a great plot.
Had the Europeans not come to power on a global scale some other group of nations would have done the same thing. Such a group of nations would have to deploy power and force just as the Europeans have done.

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jemba
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YENGE BANTU


« Reply #87 on: May 05, 2005, 11:58:11 AM »

Hotep Guybaux


John 16:5 to 8


I am the vine, you are the branches. He who aides in me, and I in him, bears much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, he is cast out as a branch and withered: and they gather them and throw them into the fire and my words in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. By this my father is glorified, that you bear much fruits: so you will be my disciple.



Lets remember he was speaking to very spiritually dead people and speaking in the language of there time. If a Christian was to read this the only thing they would see is hell, but he is telling the people in his time that his words is what they need to overstand what or who the most high is.


The bible has negative and positive words it’s not for Nubians, the bible has does not have enough knowledge to help a spirit stand tall. It’s a beginners book read it to children but when they get little older then what.  


 
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Think Clear BE Clear>>>>Always Analyze never Dismiss We all are here to learn>>>>> this earth is a BIG class Room
Oshun_Auset
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Posts: 605


« Reply #88 on: May 05, 2005, 05:22:53 PM »

Quote

Take a stone person who knows nothing of electricity into your home and say to him/her press that button and you will get light.
May be this person is genius in his stone age village and has a good working knowledge of the world and “knows”  that nothing works like that. He would be justified to say that the proposition is  nonsense. But he would not get the light if he does press the button.


Bad analogy. How can you compare the seemingly instantaneous light form an electrical switch,(to the uninitiated stoneage man...an initiate in who electricty is conducted would know that there is a process) with that of someone claiming instant spirtual enlightenment?

The masses of X-tians are like the stoneage man who thinks that flipping the switch is all it takes to reach enlightenment...get the light. They are led to believe that all it takes is to believe in Jesus and you are 'saved'... They believe in shortcuts. They are the uninitiated, largely lacking any spiritual enlightenment.it is deemphasized by the church on purpose) the, or a process to achieve enlightenment that so many other religious/spiritual tradtitions actually emphasize.

Yet they preach and prostelize.
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Oshun_Auset
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Posts: 605


« Reply #89 on: May 05, 2005, 05:43:22 PM »

Quote





What you say here is widely accepted but there is some implications that are unsettling.
You seem to say that Constantine and his contemporaries put together a  system and with their great foresight and wisdom could see that it would evolved into a global hegemony about this time. Hence you impute to them god like skills and great malice. The history does not suggest that at all.


Where did I say such a thing? If anything Constantine just started the ball rolling. I am actually saying that X-tianity is largely globally popular because of the accident of historical circumstance and European greed and force. It's a cultural trait that evolved from the development of European expansionism.  Constantine had no idea how far it would go. Are you equating greed and mass murder and oppression with "God like" qualities?

Quote
The people who dominate global affairs are west Europeans. All the other Europeans and white people are hangers on. They are in the same category like the Asians and the Africans. That is why they were the second world.


The economically dominant Western European elite DO NOT EVEN COME CLOSE to equating Africans(and other non-Europeans) with their less powerful Eastern and Mediterranean European neighbors...period. I thought that was obvious. Yes, they may not 'cherish' their neighbors well being as much as Western Europe...but I recall the Balkan intervention ect. Rwanda, Haiti, or the DRC anyone?  White supremacy is still the order of the day. And that means Black is still at the bottom of the caste system. If you don't get that then....


Quote
The Romans were in Western Europe as you said but the relationship is some thing like that of Jamaica and England in our day.  The Jamaicans  have parliamentary democracy because they are familiar with it and it is one of the most successful systems going. There are many individuals in Jamaica that are British or part British and that is kind of relationship that the west Europeans have with Ancient Rome.


Are you serious? I was stating that the cultural tendancy for Westrn Europeans to be expansionist evolved from the same cultural tendancy of the Roman empire to be expansionist. One was regional...the other worldwide...but 'out of check' greed was still at the core. IMO you are comparing apples and oranges.

Quote
During the middle ages the Europeans struggled to maintain independence of their home lands.  Spain and Portugal were taken over, southern France and Germany were battle grounds, most of Eastern Europe was conquered. The struggle was long and hard, over seven hundred years. The Europeans were fighting on their home turf, they had the advantages, finally they won.  This has nothing to do with Constantine and a great plot.


Believe me...no Euro history lesson needed. You were missunderstanding what I was getting at.

Quote
Had the Europeans not come to power on a global scale some other group of nations would have done the same thing. Such a group of nations would have to deploy power and force just as the Europeans have done.


People always say this... The European expansionist cultural tendancy is not just happenstance that took place in a vacuum. BTW...Africans circumvented the world millenioa ago...but didn't set up an oppressive empire...Explain that?

So are you one of those folk that think the only reason Europeans were global colonizers was because they had superior military technology?  I don't think so. Keep reading the site. Culture determines a lot.
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