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RNMis4iver
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« on: July 21, 2003, 05:55:34 PM »

hello to all,

well i need an opinion.  i know no rastas,  so the only way for me to reason is with myself in my own head.  i would like to hear from someone else.

ok,  the only music that i can see that says something and means something is reggae music.   reggae music is the rastaman vibration,  it is the message of rastafari.  or at least the only reggae music worth listening to.    

reggae music has taught me so many things.  all the time i listen to new music and learn more.  it taught me not to discriminate.  it taught me to love.  to love all people,  because we are all one people in a struggle to find the truth and righteousness together.  we all have the one beating heart.

now i understand that reggae music and rasta does not hate.  but i get the feeling that rasta is saying that one man is better.  that better man is the african.  and this goes against all i learned from the beginning, that all man are created equal.  it is not the hearbeat that makes you, it is your actions.  

so i understand,  and yes i am white, straight, male.  so i see no discrimination,  i am given things that i didnt do anything for.   i dont like that either.  regardless the white man has never been oppressed.  so maybe i can never understand.

but what i really wonder is.  is it bad for me to listen to reggae music.  no!  buti guess when i see a black person, an african.  i notice difference by the color of skin,  but it is different.  i try to find all the differences that make black people better cause that is the only message that i listen to.  so instead of noticing similarities,  i look to the differences,  and not that they are bad,  i usually look to see why i am inferior.   but i do not believe i am,  i believe i am a person who wants righteousness to rule.  who loves all his brothers and is deeply concerned for all people who are oppressed by greed and hate.  and dislike all the evil around me.   but i feel like an outcast becuase i am white.

thanks for listening  and could someone please tell me what they think about what i think??  is reggae doing the wrong thing to me??   is it racist cause now i see more differences between me and a black man/?
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Rootsie
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2003, 08:10:03 PM »

     Some of your questions remind me of ones I had when I was 19 and first started listening to reggae and learning about Rastafari. Why did this music work so powerfully on me? Why was I so drawn to a teaching created by black people for black people? What I did was stick with it and learn and read and listen and grow.
    I don't think reggae and Rasta claim the superiority of one race over another, but whites experience it this way. I remember when I was about the same age and I read Malcolm X talking about the white devil, thinking now what does that have to do with me? Well what I know now is that it has EVERYTHING to do with me, whether I like it or not, if I don't make it my life's work to break this white supremacy which has mashed black people down.  There are many layers to this white privilege of ours, and if you proceed from here with honesty you will see more and more.  No white person can say with authority:I don't hold any racist attitudes. I'm 46 now, and still things come up and slap me in the face.
    One Love and global unity are worthy goals, but they are hard work! People come here all the time and tell black people they are 'racist' for being angry at whites, racist for not being able to let go of the past and blah and blah. Well the racist system is NOT of the past, and we all suffer with it, and I think our job for our own growth as human beings is to live the kind of life that bears witness to our commitment to One Love. Like I said it means work, and using the privileges we have been given and don't deserve to work toward the education of other whites. It is the only way I can see for a white person to have a life of integrity.
    When black people celebrate their blackness white people get uncomfortable, and feel attacked and unwelcome. There are black people who strongly feel that there is no place in Rasta for whites, and by and large I think they are right. There is no place in Rasta for whites who do not want to look at some very uncomfortable realities, and translate their understandings into positive action.
    History is crucial! Everybody has to come to see that as little as 60,000 years ago we were ALL African. Then we have to question why this history we are taught tells us that Africa holds a minor place in the world. We cannot become black, but we can live our lives according to African values, which are HUMAN values, and look at what is happening in the world through that lens. Africa is the mamaland of every human being. So does that make her superior? Well it makes her PRIMARY at least.
    A good thing would be to look at the Articles section of this rastafarispeaks homepage,  [link=http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/articles/]http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/articles/[/link], and also the articles and forum on  [link=http://www.rootsie.com]http://www.rootsie.com[/link].
    Africans don't need for us to tell them much things, but we need to reason among ourselves to come to this teaching in the proper respectful way. Questions yes, attempts to hijack the flow with declarations of One Love and human unity NO.

Rootsie
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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2003, 01:21:04 AM »

Whites only concern to Rasta Culture is for trifles outward trappings such as REGGEA as "a good damn rhythm," Marley, the dreadlocks, the red, gold and green paraphernalia or Marijuana leaves. They are not even able to understand the lyrics of Reggea Artists' advocates of the Rastafari ideological content of BLACK POWER and AFRICA CONSCIOUSNESS. For them Rastafari becomes a style comparable to punk, new wave, disco or heavy metal Huh. Powerful points of white HYPOCRISY become there identifiable. As I always see it as EXPECTED behavior...

Whites are facing challenges here and abroad that were not present 40 years ago. The delusional way they talk is indicative of two things a) the Racial hate bred into them by their EVIL ancestors and b) apprehension of a "NEW WORLD ORDER" that does not place them on the top rung of the ladder exclusively.

Black people on this forum have a wider set of life's experiences, understand HISTORY and policy way beyond their grasp of it, so whites assume Blacks are 'reverse Racists' when Blacks only identify the source of centuries of Oppression by European-American people.

To combat Racism, to UNDERSTAND or Help Afrikans is to actually be honest with OWN Racism! Everything is all peachy-keen in the sphere of racial politics. Whites should not be all shocked when RACIAL FIRES belies whatever racial UTOPIA most of them imagine for this world.

Black people on this forum base their reactions on the HELL of their Social Reality in this racist world, not on WHITE SUPREMACY FANTASIES!


Bantu-Kelani.
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Ark I
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2003, 07:33:54 AM »

Greetings RNMis4iver,

Different people have gone through different experiences in the trod of RasTafarI. In the city where I live, RasTafarI is I family. I love and treat I RasTafarI as I Brothers and Sisters, and they love and treat I as their Brother.  I love and treat their children as I Nieces and Nephews, and they love and treat I as their Uncle. They don't think of I differently because I am white, and I don't think of them differently because they are black.  We recognize the similarities and differences between us, because of our different cultures, but that doesn't make us any less of a Family. There are differences in the cultures of all people, varying from country to country, village to village.

This is the RasTafarI livity I know, a livity of One.  And this livity includes the battle against racism, not the battle against reverse racism because there is no such thing, just the battle against plain racism, which exists in many men and women of all countries.

"But let us take pride in the fact that as free men we attack and abhor racial discrimination on principle, wherever it is found and in whatever guise. We can, in addition to the economic pressures of which we dispose, bring our moral weight to bear and rally world opinion to our cause by revealing the brutality, the inhumanity, the inherent viciousness and evil represented by this policy. "
-Haile Selassie I

"As we extend the hand of universal brotherhood to all, without regard to race or colour, so we condemn any social or political order which distinguishes among God's children on this most specious of grounds. "  
-Haile Selassie I


Blessed Love,

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I

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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2003, 10:37:38 AM »

As we can see, we've still got whites living in DENIAL regarding what really ails the MAJORITY of Black men and women in this world, that they become purveyors of One Love and racial coalitions premise to AVOID FACING their Historical dealings with Blacks and how they contemporary and exclusively  benefit from Black Oppression.

Without sharing our experiences they summon AFRIKANS for 'THE RAINBOW COALITION' trying to MINIMIZE the Black reality, the unique and deprived set of social situations we face, while THEY indeed continue to benefit of the Black Struggles. Their story is a thrill ride through irrelevant speculation, hypocrisy and cowardness.

Full of nerve and insensibility these folks, continue to spread their Ignorant, Arrogant and Paternalistic Eurocentricity in this black forum. Their psychological advocacy of white Supremacy is palpable, transparent intended and expected...


Bantu-Kelani.
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RNMis4iver
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2003, 11:51:45 AM »

thank you to all for your time and energy to reply to me.  i respect everyones own and unique opinion.  it is just one life for you and me.

maybe i did not articulate my thoughts the way i was actually thinking of them or maybe i did,  but i hope you all dont take me as a bad man.  i am only trying to improve myself everyday.  i hope noone thought that i brought a overtly racist attitude,  because then that means i didnt articulate well.  maybe i do have racist attitudes that have been programed in my head since i was a child and i havent yet reversed all the lies that i have been taught and much less even realize them.

i can understand in a sense(i am white)  why it is so important for their to be such pride for african culture and roots.  i do understand that my group(which i claim i am not a member of any group but mankind) stole, raped, killed, and changed history all for economic, social and pyscological benefit.   i see why it is so important for black people to be very aware and proud of their culture.  to try to keep some culture when it is all stolen and then changed day after day.  i am not trying to claim reverse racism i do not think.  it is hard for me to understand.  but i will keep on trying everyday.

i dont like seeing any person being downpressed, and alomost everyone but me is.  the african man, the asian man, the woman, the homosexual.  all downpressed through hate jealousy and greed.  and as a  man with a mind,  a mind that cannot be controlled,  the only thing that noone but myself can control.  i can choose to move out of babylon and never to contribute to babylon and keep killing the human race and our world.  so that is what i will try to do

thanks so much for the replys,  the more information i get the better i can get.  the more i can move forward, and that is the only way to move,  so if you want,  please help me always move forward

natty nation - if you want to see a brand new world, time to plant the seed, weeding out the seeds of hate, jealousy and greed

actually,  bantu,  one more question to you.  you say that whites can never understand the lyrics of reggae music??  should i be listening to reggae music,  or is it pointless, am i learning all the wrong things??
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Ark I
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2003, 11:53:35 AM »

Greetings,

Bantu said,
"As we can see, we've still got whites living in DENIAL regarding what really ails the MAJORITY of Black men and women in this world, that they become purveyors of One Love and racial coalitions premise to AVOID FACING their Historical dealings with Blacks and how they contemporary and exclusively  benefit from Black Oppression.  "

My historical dealings with black people are when I lived in Africa as a black man a long time ago.  And after that time, the past 20 years. As I said before, my father came to this country in the 1950's.  He almost had no dealings with black people, because there were no black people in the city he lived in Canada until the past 20 years, and there are still very few.  I knew only a few black people growing up in school. Most of my dealings with Africans are when I came to Toronto in 1995.

My ancestors were not the ones who took away the Americas from the Indian, and my ancestors were not the ones who used the Africans in the slave trade. So why must I take to myself the history of another group of people just because my skin happens to be a similar color.

Bantu said,
"Their story is a thrill ride through irrelevant speculation, hypocrisy and cowardness."

I find people often are speaking about themselves when they talk about others.


Bantu said,
"Full of nerve and insensibility these folks, continue to spread their Ignorant, Arrogant and Paternalistic Eurocentricity in this black forum. Their psychological advocacy of white Supremacy is palpable, transparent intended and expected... "

Paternalistic definition:
A policy or practice of treating or governing people in a fatherly manner, especially by providing
for their needs without giving them rights or responsibilities.

I don't know what is Paternalistic about any of the words I speak.

white supremacy?  Nothing I have said has been about white supremacy.

Others should look at their own words when they speak about supremacy or inferiority.


Jah live,

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I
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Princess Tracey
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2003, 06:48:38 PM »

all i learned from the beginning, that all man are created equal.  it is not the hearbeat that makes you, it is your actions.

Here is something to look at and reflect upon... as you may believe, and even wish for the IDEAL… but if you are really willing to look… what in fact do you see?... What in fact is the REALITY of such a statement??

Here-in lies a great disparity between thoughts and experiences.

It has been duly noted that many whites do in fact come to Rasta through reggae music... as for obvious reasons they cannot come to it through "experiencing" the black struggle.

Music... much like art, has a very significant way of communicating its message... as they both speak universally and are able to traverse freely through other forms of barriers that would typically keep people from understanding or knowing different concepts through lack of experience... so it does, and will avail the message even so… as it will touch you and grab you in many profound ways in spite of yourself... thanks be!... smile

And it is because of this… I have come to highly respect the power of conscious reggae and its MessenJahs that sing and share the holy light of truth through lyrical spiritual vibes. Many a nutritious seed has been planted in fertile hearts and minds because of them… to open the eye wider… to see more...reflect more… and look deeper into the root of Rasta experiences.

Here, music has served as a bridge that many whites have walked over. However, once over to the other side of awareness, one begins to see a deeper picture, as the music serves only as a brief introduction to look into the meaning that gives rise to the words. One cannot continue to listen to reggae and not notice the history of black lives affected by the ills of society and the oppressed systems around the globe. How can one consciously vibe, sway, and feel good about that?? This is why one love...will not cut-it!

One eventually will begin to see something beyond the cool skankin riddums, dreadlock appearances, and ganja.
IF one is willing to see... that man is NOT equal... He may have indeed been created equal...but somewhere in history a sharp turn was taken from equality to superiority… and it is this chant that rings loud and clear through much of the message in the music today… therefore… let us indeed look at the ACTIONS of mankind over the course of history and truly see what has contributed to much of the ignorance that continues to flourish this day… and check our OWN actions… as Rasta will reveal the way in Wisdom and Truth!

If you are truly serious about learning more about what Rasta is about...then you have indeed come to the right place where crucial, vital, information pours forth from this deep running river whose generous tides nourish and quench dry thirsty roots. Read, learn, and become better informed through the many views, opinions, books, articles, and perspectives shared and expressed. A more informed person can then speak from a better reference point of knowledge and further the reasonings to higher heights.

Take the time to feed your Self...(action)… there is much food for thought before you might even ask the question...

Know yourself... learn your history.
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RNMis4iver
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2003, 12:15:37 AM »

thank you to all

i suppose i can get one hundred different opinions,  and i dont even know what i am really wondering.  so thanks alot,  but i guess i am fine

it is only i who can know who i am.  i dont need a theology or ideology.  it is only i who can that knows i am living truthfully and righteous.  

so i will continue to read and listen to the message of rastafari,  as it is the only message there is that i can find truth in,  but i dont need anymore opions,  and i thank all who did respond to me.

and everyone else keep reasoning,  it can only lead to progress        Smiley
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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2003, 05:54:24 PM »

Posted by: Ark I

My historical dealings with black people are when I lived in Africa as a black man a long time ago.


WHAT? You lived as a black man a long time ago? How long ago??! What is this SILLINESS again? If you can approach this subject with some CREDIBILITY let me know.


And after that time, the past 20 years. As I said before, my father came to this country in the 1950's.  He almost had no dealings with black people, because there were no black people in the city he lived in Canada until the past 20 years, and there are still very few.  I knew only a few black people growing up in school. Most of my dealings with Africans are when I came to Toronto in 1995.

You are only 20. You have been living around Black people for only a couple of years and you are a Caucasian male....clearly Prejudice is beyond YOUR sphere of experience! So what could be your basis for thinking you are qualified to speak for Black people or Rastafari?


My ancestors were not the ones who took away the Americas from the Indian, and my ancestors were not the ones who used the Africans in the slave trade. So why must I take to myself the history of another group of people just because my skin happens to be a similar color.

Like many whites you are delusional and suffer from acute cognitive dissonance... This argument you and the rest of the Caucasian gang worldwide are putting forth only serves to confirm how Racists you all are. ALL WHITES, YOUR ANCESTORS included, have benefited from our Destruction. AmeriKKKa and the entire EUROPE supported Afrikan Slavery and Colonialism for their own benefit. Today they still enjoy Economic benefits of the Exploitation of the Afrikan people. Check the BROOTHERHOOD between EUROPEANS in exploiting AfriKans on the continent through Economical and political structures!!


Also, ALL THOSE WHO LOOK WHITE, whatever their location, complaints or reservations, BENEFIT FROM WHITE SKIN PRIVILEGE! White folk, included YOU, continue to benefit from Nepotism, Cronyism, Racism and out right FAVORITISM you and other turncoats are on the prowl looking for anything that benefit Black folk that you may label it as 'Racist' but for some strange reason you are quiet on things that benefit white folk like the FALLACY of the 'COLORBLIND' theory and bad Practice. Your race receives the benefits from having white skin even if you do not have a say in the matter even if you wish not to receive the benefits because you are white. If you disagree with this FACT you do attack the Truth or validity of the TRUTH!  That is certainly spreading Insensibility and WHITE SUPREMACY in this BLACK forum. .


Posted by: RNMis4iver

i dont like seeing any person being downpressed, and alomost everyone but me is.  the african man, the asian man, the woman, the homosexual.  all downpressed through hate jealousy and greed.


There has been NO systematic assault and oppression in the world based upon Race as has been inflicted upon AFRIKAN people. This has created and mental slavery in Black people that has transcended generation and helps to keep us down.
By dismissing the cultural and psychological effect of what happened to AFRIKAN people one is being unobjective and is lumping black people in with others to MINIMIZE THE INDIVIDUAL NATURE OF THE PROBLEMS CREATED FOR Blacks SYSTEMATICALLY. Others degree and duration of oppression DOES NOT COMPARE!


Bantu-Kelani.

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Ark I
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2003, 07:19:52 AM »

Greetings Bantu,

I am a young man, but not that young Bantu, I am 27 years old. I said 20 years because I didn't know any Africans when I was really young.

My qualifications for speaking of RasTafarI is from my experience with RasTafarI.  I have learned from the greatest RasTafarI in my city, and I have learned from the Bible and Haile Selassie I.

Bantu Said,
"Like many whites you are delusional and suffer from acute cognitive dissonance... This argument you and the rest of the Caucasian gang worldwide are putting forth only serves to confirm how Racists you all are. ALL WHITES, YOUR ANCESTORS included, have benefited from our Destruction. AmeriKKKa and the entire EUROPE supported Afrikan Slavery and Colonialism for their own benefit. "

While your people were under slavery of the British and those that worked with them, my people were under slavery of the Turkish.  My people were under slavery for 500 years, during the same time period Africans were under slavery in the Americas. So my people didn't benefit from the slavery of Black People, because we were too busy fighting to free ourselves from our own slavemasters.

I agree with you that I benifit from being white in this society today.  I speak out against such prejudice and don't deal with those policies myself.

You said,
"but for some strange reason you are quiet on things that benefit white folk like the FALLACY of the 'COLORBLIND' theory and bad Practice. Your race receives the benefits from having white skin even if you do not have a say in the matter even if you wish not to receive the benefits because you are white."

Just because you haven't heard I speak in detail about the wickedness of the racist policies of America and other white nations, doesn't mean I am quiet about those things.  You just haven't heard I speak much about those issues yet. And you are right, I will  the recieve the benefits from having white skin in this society even though I am against that inequality, because that is the policy of this wicked nation and they don't care about my opinion on the matter.

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I
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Rootsie
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2003, 08:21:58 AM »

The issue is, since white people have this undeserved and in some cases unwanted privilege, it is central to their development to see the maiming effects of privilege on them personally, and so much moreso the entire world, and 'pledge our lives, our fortunes, and sacred honor' to the eradication of this Beast.
A person of integrity cannot just take a helpless stance in front of this White Devil. Of course we have things to say! and the leisure and relative safety and education with which to say them! It is another tentacle of white privilege to throw up our hands and say 'hey they're not listening to ME.' There is too too much at stake.
It is our responsibility to find ways to be heard. TO MAKE 'THEM' CARE!
This would be a much more productive use of our time than squabbling with black people about whose wounds are bigger than whose, Than nitpicking over trivia and missing the large point that the Africans and some whites are making.

Rootsie
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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2003, 09:17:24 AM »

To Ark I and the Caucasian gang on this board,

Listen what was done to the Black man and woman physically and mentally has LASTED TO THIS VERY DAY AND IS PERPETUATED IN MANY FORMS AROUND THE WORLD. One is a physical termination, the other is mental anguish and torture! The treatment during slavery has been MUCH MORE HARMFUL to Black people, LONGER In DURATION than other Oppression, compare it to the death penalty vs serving for 400 years!!
Your 500 years of white oppression argument is one big joke. If you and your people place yourself under what WE went through, I bet you none of you will ever display the FORTITUDE it takes to shake the effects and always move forward. You have a lot of nerve of telling black folks anything, without sharing our experiences in the present day!

When whites cruel attempt at minimizing what the HELL happen to the Black man and woman in the MIDDLE PASSAGE by comparing it to their obsolete oppression, you know the cloaked Caucasian racism is working overtime!
Turncoats' whites like you are no different than all of the xerox copy of the white man types, except that you "embrace" blacks folk intimately to the extent you find us useful. Your argument is the same garbage the far more racists of you whites pull, as if it makes a damn difference your nationality and how you proceed!

The WHOLE Caucasian RACE essentially, lived off of the handouts of slaves - who contributed their labor in Europe and Amerikkka without compensation for GENERATIONS! AFRIKAN SLAVERY was the greatest wealth redistribution scheme in the history of MAN. When will white people wake up and realize this??!

White knows and quotes HAILE SELAISSE I in much the same manner as satan quoted the Bible during the temptations of J.E.S.U.S, selectively and out of context. It's all part of the strategy in their self-proclaimed "Softer face of colorblind theory and practice" which to me just means future leverage against us.  Black people need to be very specific and precise in what it is we are seeking and stop using terms and phrases that can later be used against our goals. Who in the world do they think that they are fooling?

From your Caucasian male perspective you have no clue about the social system that deems Black people second to less to nothing wherever we go or whatever we say or do. You cannot think and judge the Black Experience or Rastafari by your Caucasian Euro standards and ideas flawed  with ignorance and hypocrisy. You cloak yourself as fairness-equality lover when you are at the same time you are fighting the TRUTH. Tumbling deeper into that abyss that is your arrogant white mind.

You crack me up though....because you represent the sore loser who THOUGHT you were going to get your biased on divine whiteness. It is expected!


Bantu-kelani.
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Ark I
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2003, 10:11:19 AM »

Bantu,

You think you know everything about I when you know nothing about I.

Everything you say is about I is your own speculation and presumptuousness.

It is you who selectively take RasTafarI words that suit your purpose and leave off the parts that don't fit in with your plan.

And you also take my words and try to tell I what I meant when I wrote them.  And what YOU tell I about I words is your own imaginations, not I words or meaning.

Jah Blessings to RasTafarI

Ark I
RasTafarI
Haile Selassie I
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nyamabla
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2003, 02:54:52 PM »

Quote
Bantu,

You think you know everything about I when you know nothing about I.

Everything you say is about I is your own speculation and presumptuousness.

It is you who selectively take RasTafarI words that suit your purpose and leave off the parts that don't fit in with your plan.



greetings rastafari

ark 1 no matter how many rastas you be around or how many africans you be around you will never be them. when u look in the mirror you will see your priviledge straight. there is no getting around this bredren becase u yourself said it. u said "You think you know everything about I when you know nothing about I." so the white man that gives u your priviledges nah know u. him nah know how u feel or think about racism, him see u. so bantu cannot "It is you who selectively take RasTafarI words that suit your purpose and leave off the parts that don't fit in with your plan." because bantu like every other african's purpose is rastafari. what u read and than go and reason about is our life continually. if imon couldn't read a word or write a word or say a word, i and i still rastafari

jah bless
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