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Author Topic: Can the 'Whiteness' of Mind be Changed?  (Read 51096 times)
Ras Mandingo
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2003, 12:50:20 PM »

My Elder IanI,

Love and Respect to the I,

I guess I didn't express myself clearly in the last post.

In the example I shown, that you pointed a patronizing attitude, I meditated on that, and It came to my mind that, trully, what I felt I was doing was to say to a brethren that I felt considered himself to be inferior them me, I was humbly trying to say: please, why are you treating me differntly? Why is this feeling of segregation of levels taking place? Don't you know how I admire you and want to learn from you?

What I love in this life is honesty and humbleness; and the simplest people are the ones who can show that.

I have no intentions of elaborating social programs or things like that. But if I can remember to friends, by the researches I have made,a bout some facts history wants to hide...if I can share this with them and help in some way...isn't that a bebeficial attitude to all?

I don't think that perception of reality and it's laws are necessarily related to accumulated knowledge, as we all a concience to tell us the true if we may listen.

Give thanks for pointing this interpretation, but made me feel I had passed a wrong interpretation of my feelings.

ut anyway, if you think I'm still blind to see what you so kindly want to show me, please try it again and sorry if I pass the impression that I'm feeling difficultly to overstand this matter.

Always love reasoning with the I Elder IanI Cheesy

Give thanks for sharing roots and culture with us all,

Blessings,

mandingo.
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Haile,
Wisdom, Knowledge, Strenght & Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2003, 10:34:48 AM »

Greetings Selassie I Live

I agree that white people have to step out of their world and see the world as it really is, history as it really is, etc., but does this need to lead to self-hatred? Of course there needs to be guilt, and in time that guilt will give way to a sense of wanting to correct through action and dialogue, but is it good to say that anybody should hate themselves for the color of their skin or of the past/current crimes of their people?

Also, as we move forward with these reasings and dialogue, is it good to make sweeping generalizations about a group of people or history in general? I mean, to say that, for example, all Europeans were responsible for slavery and colonialism isn't really correct. Only rich land owners, politicians, and merchants had slaves in Europe or rtaded slaves in Africa. The serfs of the land, poor whites, had no say about slavery, and their ideas of non-whites was usually based on ignorance and superstition...how could a serf, who had never traveled twenty miles out of his own village, possibly know about the world at large? How can history judge these people as bad people? Ignorant, maybe, but not inheritantly evil? I feel that this is what the self-hatred I am talking about comes into play. When white people really dig into their own roots, as Rasta teaches us to do, we can find mostly negative actions of our anscestors, but there is also some good there, and so, in my personal reasonings, I see no reason for self-hatred.

If we are going to have race dialogue, is it productive for any one to make generalized statements about an entire race of people (white or black, or asian etc.)?

I Give Thanks for the this Blessed Reasoning!

JAH LOVE Selassie I Live
Jeff
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selassieilive
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2003, 12:59:53 PM »

Greetings again Jeff
I used the word 'hatred' because that is the word u chose to use.  That is why is marked the word in quotation marks.  U are correct in using the word 'guiltiness.'  This is a better description of their emotions.  Because if there was 'hatred' for their white race, they would deny everything dealing with white people.  But since their mother is white and father is white, sisters and brothers are white, it is a nearly impossible task to achieve.  They will have to confront their 'whiteness' at some point.  They will make use of their white priviledge at some time.

In I opinion, inorder for white people to change their white supremacist mindset, they have to step outside of self and see the world and how it interacts around them instead of thinking they are the world and things interact because of them.

It is the denial of self (ego) that I was addressing.  Not hatred of self.  There is no progression harboring hatred.

Blessed
selassieilive
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Until the lion has a historian of his own, the tale of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Jeff
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2003, 11:36:35 PM »

Give Thanks Selassie I Live

JAH LIVE
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IanI
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2003, 08:46:55 AM »

Greetings Ras Mandingo,

Alright.
Here it is.
No feel no way about what me de say about you reasoning. Ok?
Why? Cause if you de let you emotion lead... reality will never be faced for true. I say this because the I discuss you "feelings" there in you response a bit much. Seen.
And this is one of the things I try and point out in me post... the attitude that is ingrained in the psyche of the white ones. And emotion, "feeling", always get in the way and lead to denial and refusal to see.

I am sure that you "feelings" towards you friend there is quite honest. Your intentions are from the Heart.
BUT...
the bottom line is THIS...
it is NOT up to you, as a white one, to "show" the black one how his inferiority "exsists and must be corrected and transended". (your words)
Don't you see what I am saying here?
There are many, many white ones who think they are doing the right thing when they try and "correct" their black bredren...
however, "correcting" the black ones "inferiority complex" is not up to you and is mostly taken as insult... with the immediate reaction being...
"who the HELL do you think you are to tell me how to see myself!? To tell me to love myself more and to uplift my mind and my perception!?(your words again) What have you ever been through that would make you understand what I am and how I am, and why I am the way I am!?"

If you have certain information and data that you think would be beneficial to you friends, no one says that you should not share it with them. Give them the African history book as a gift... that kind a thing, man.
But to think that you can tell the man how to feel, or be... is just a patronizing attitude that you do not have the ability right now to realize.

If the reality is that you admire the man and want to learn from him then it is questions that you should be asking of him... and not sentamentality "corrections" to his "inferiority complex".
Are you getting me here yet?

This is a very important reasoning here and not an attempt to dis-hearten you or dis-courage you. ok? And I am not calling you 'racist'... so do not let you emotions take control here.

What I am saying is that your privilege and your favor have had serious con-notations upon you psyche... you colour as well as you class. And as I said, it takes long, long time and serious, serious meditations to see it and overcome it.
Not seeing it and acknowledging it is where many go astray.

Ras... I de read all a you reasonings here and see that you heart a good and you desire is for Righteousness. So no take this reasoning discouragingly... please.
The reason Ayinde bring this to the front line is because it is a vital matter that must be looked at with great care and ...yes... HONESTY.

One a the things me so appreciate about Jah Lightening was His teachment to and about the white ones. Many Rastas do not even allow a white one in them yard... not even past the gate! But James always explain how the white ones was in such serious confusion and Him say them no never gonna learn a damn thing if Black ones just chase them away. But... IanI did see that many a white one that come to the hills come with "love" and infatuation, but not any REAL longing to overcome the shame and dishonour them a carry deep within them psyche. So them just "visit' and leave a trinket to 'help out' IanI Rastafari... maybe some little breads(money)... or a new pot fe cooking... or a book about Bob...
and them never even return.
You see what me de get at here?
And Iya never say to them, "you white and you got superiority complex! change it!"
Cause Him know that just bring up... defense!
Him a Wise One... Him know when to be subtle in Him teachment.
hahaha!
And many a bredren say that Him just want white ones around cause them can get Him some breads! So them de come to Him gate begging for a 10 dollar or a 20 dollar whenever them see white one there!
Cho... what a go on in the minds a men!

Look Ras... me no say don't help out you brother...
what me say is watch you attitude about "correcting his complex".
alright?
Being honest with you-self is the first step...
humble to you-self... and then...
LIFE a LIVE!
All a we to LIVE as ONE!
Righteousness a RULE!

Always IanI give thanks fe the reasoning ability here.
Ras Mandingo... LOVE and RESPECT!
Reasoning a GIFT fe true!

ONE LOVE/HEART/MIND
IanI Rastafari
Guidance and Protection
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IanI
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2003, 10:30:21 AM »

Irie Jeffman!

Ah... me glad to see the I a come reason.
First me say...
"white" mind and "western civilization" mindset a inter-twined fe true.
Look...
racism is evident in all public arenas.
The history is that the europeans 'conquered' the globe with a severe attitude of superiority and "civilization". And every where they went they brought that attitude to the indigenous people that survived. Even if they brought "white trash" labor with them from say, England... those white ones were made to believe that they were of some "higher" status or position because they had "white" skin. They were taught, literally, that the colour of their skin was a sign from their god of their "higher" rank in gods eyes. They were "made white'" because of their "favor" from god.
Now this teachment is not very old... and it is not gone.
many would like to say that it is... putting on blinders...
and not seeing it right in their own psyche.
And some... a few... are determined to abandon this wicked teachment and eliminate it from their Hearts.

Selassieilive say:
"in order for white people to change their white supremist mind-set, they have to step outside of self and see the world and how it interacts around them, instead of thinking they are the world and things interact because of them."

First I would say, they have to step outside their "conditioned" self... or "ego" as you put it next...
not their True Self... which is where they really need to go!
and so then my question would be...
how to do that?
If someone does not even know or admit that this "ego" problem exsists, how would they ever go about changing it?
And... for the ones that do know it exsists, is there any way to change it beyond their own Heart/Mind? Collectively?

The people of the bush are considered by most "western civilization" to be "primitive" and "backward"...
how does a group go about changing that perception?
Many see them from a distance and say, "oh wouldn't it be neat to live like that!?"... but in reality the mind-set is that the "higher civilized" people should "help" those underlings get "civilized".
So what is the TRUE definition of "civilization"?
Technologically advanced?
Materialistically wealthy?
Scientifically knowledgable?
or...
Socially advanced?
Spiritually wealthy?
Cosmologically knowledgable?

Jeffman...
you Ras there that says "race dosen't matter", is of course correct in the realm of Higher Heights...
but how does one achieve those Higher Heights if they cannot look, acknowledge and work to change the flaws that exsist in his own character?
And the generalizations are made because the majority of a people are as stated.
It is always also stated that... some... do not fit in with the generalization.
Ayinde has explained this well, before. Seen?

When racism is a thing of the past, it will be another history matter that IanI can learn about and make sure it no happen again... like we like to believe about slavery. But fe now it is VITAL that IanI reason about it's influence and consequence upon each a we own selves and the world as a whole.

Thanks and Praises!
Reasoning a FORWARDING for each a we!

ONE LOVE/HEART/MIND
IanI Rastafari
Guidance and protection


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RasIene
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2003, 01:32:03 PM »

Greetings all and Iance to the reasoning make availe by Rastafarispeaks.com...a truly presence in the life of many Rastas who are privilege to use a computer. I often meditate on how Idrens living in the hills of Jamaica, Ethiopia and else where feel about computers and its power to deliver information.

Now! I know that Rastafari has been infiltrated by organization seeking to overstand what makes Rasta what it is today. Mark you Rastaman have the power to re-define, raise consciousness, and deliver values not upheld around the world. It is for these powers that Rasta are being carefully observed and spied upon for.

Rasta is able to deliver the above mention without a pulpit, without an organized religious base, without preaching, without force. And trust I! it is commendable. However, it is a threat to the establishment of babylon as they are not able to overstand such power inherent in the Rastaman movement.

Therefore, you will find many different people, especially caucasions following Rasta ways. But not all of them are there for the livity; but to seek out information that they can either use for themselves on behalf of some organization. Better yet some are on the payroll of the CIA, FBI and the Umbrella organization formed recently call Home Land Security. I feel and sense that it is watered down communism.

Anyway, like I have said in other article on this board, the  Black Muslims in America have often put in their newspaper, "What the Black Muslims want." The caucasion Rastas should like wise do and say, 'What the white Rastas want." Having said that I think it will shed light on the distinction of Rasta movement particular that Rasta is borne out of the Black experience in the ghettos of Jamaica and Africa.
There are no membership or prerequiste to become a Rasta follower, so anyone can claim that they are Rastafari. It is that automatic admission that makes Rasta appealing and Powerful to those looking for a sanctuary. However, deep down who can truly live the livity and precepts of the Rastaman. It is not about following or adhering to King James Version that gives credence, but Rasta will be a challenge to (any one-caucaion and non-black)them that step in with hope of serving their sanctimonious pursuits.

Many have come aboard and find confusion. Many lay waste and are now cursing Rasta that it has not deliver. Why! they did not become santified as they thought, and thus remain the same person prior to coming into Rastafari philosophy.

So on the inside caucasions and other non-black are being looked at keenly by black Rastafari from the outside. Because there are many doors to enter through inorder to overs Rastafari, but only one door out. If you as a Rasta is not able to enter in and out freely through the livity of Rastafari then you are trap. I think that is how many black Rastas look at caucasion Rastas as been trap in a movement whereby they  look for sanctity.

Truly! that is how now after you find Caucasion Rastas developing their own theory and overstanding. Some even attemp to make suggestions which amaze the tiniest of mightiest in Rastafari theology. For example, they would start a church after the organized religion order in the name of Selassie I, wrtie books for academic theology, go out of their academe to talk the Rastan lingo, drfy their parents money in trust for them, and grab every piece of reggae music out there. Some even attempt to lecture as authority on the roots and diefication of Rastaman.

However, I and I is not postulating that it is wrong or right. But I and I say that since they are in the movement and have develop these avenues after being trap they must espound on "what the caucasion Rastas want." Untill they can do that they will be able to enter in and out freely in the philosophical spirit of the Nyahman(binghi) vibes, telepathetic powers, iconical reasoning, culture, and the most elusive the blackman experience, the Rastaman fearful powers etc.

So this is I stake, RasIene...Ivine Rasta.  
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Ras Mandingo
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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2003, 12:58:20 PM »

IanI,

Give thanks for the words my Idren!!!

True that I'm still a very emotional person and babylon get me crying sometimes alone. I use to be a very week heart, meaning things would always hurt me easily. My grandfather used to say that was because of to much sugar and liquid that diluted my inner person.

But I'm one who is looking for righteousness and thruths and rights with a good heart (as the I mentioned). So, I'm always looking for listening to what any person has to honestly say to me, specially if it's a respectfull position (as I always get here in the board). So, your words will be reverberating deep into I mind the next days.

What you said reminded me that I should be worring about "correcting" and "influencing" my ownself, and not other people.

So, I'm working to become less emotive and more functional (meaning more open to recieve reasonings and to relate with them).

Give thanks for telling me, so honstly how I see I actions, and feel OK to keep on doing so, that's how I can learn and become a better human beeing (wich is my aim in the end).

I feel good we can reason. Feel good with that and don't feel ofended or things like that. And, if I have a superiority complex let me observe that insilence and anylise it to overcome it gradually.

Love and respect to the I my Elder.

Blessings,

Mandingo.
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Haile,
Wisdom, Knowledge, Strenght & Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ras Mandingo
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« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2003, 01:36:10 PM »

IanI,

I forgot to mention:

I feel there's almost no information about Rastafari in Brasil. In 5 years researching about Rasta I couldn't find one single book in portuguese on the topic.

As a journalist/researcher/english teacher, I felt that the way I can contribute to the Rasta trod, according to I individual skills, would be to put the information I was researching in a book and offer to the people in my country, to spread the light and share the reasoning.

Do you feel this is a patronizing attitude? I have no intention to contribute by offering money or with superficial and non-functional things. This is something I feel isnpired and vibrating to do.

If you feel there's patronizing attitude in this, how could I do it without giving this impression? And by asking so I have no intention to atribute you the title of some kind of oracle, but I respect a lot the I words and attitudes.

I always feel like a student who wnats to listen, ponder and learn.

Give thanks for the word/sound/power!!!

All the respect to you my Elder,

The Idren mandingo - Brasil.

By the way IanI, do you still live in Jamaica?

I know it's a future destiny, when the time come (and the building I live is named Jamaica, so I'm feeling almost there for the last five years hahaha!!!).

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Haile,
Wisdom, Knowledge, Strenght & Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ras Mandingo
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2003, 01:52:16 PM »

Finally IanI (sorry for breaking the post like that but images keep on coming to I mind):

Surelly one that sees original people (bushmen) as uncivilized or savage, really has to stop and ponder about what is life all about. How can a civilization so young like the western one could desorganize the world so fast and so agressively, while ancient cultures lived for so long in harmony with the laws of the universe?

I think is a fundamental point you make to desmistify the topioc regarding superirority comples. feel superior for what, for beeing part of such degenerative society that takes away the right of the next geenration of living life and getting a world to live. Because we should take care of the planet for the next generations, making sure that we can mediate the past (ancestors) and the future (ascendents) in the present (we).

Love and respect, and sorry if I used too much space and words.

Ras Mandingo jahson.
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Haile,
Wisdom, Knowledge, Strenght & Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ras Mandingo
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Posts: 460


« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2003, 03:09:15 PM »

Greetings to all,

And greetings IanI and Ayinde,

Your words made me meditate on a recent story in my life existence. About the Capoeira moment that I share with you all I was (am) going through in the Capoeira environment. Was I having a patronizing attitude?

Just to recall the points:

I recieved an e-mail full of accusations from someone named "Devilson".

The reason why I got this e-mail: I had left the Capoeira Group (and my Master).

The reason I left the group: I felt not welcomed, because as I research of life went on and one, and douts and questions arose, I didn't find space to dialogue it mith my master (mainly), and when I wnated to dialogue with the collegues of practice, I was accusing of trying to downtrone the Master.

What were the points I felt urgentcy to dialogue with him: Africanicity of Capoeira and how it relates to Rastafari. How Capoeira would mean and represent as an examaple of an individual. Why Capeira needed to be violent and the importance of preserveing the self integrity of the Idrens and Sistrens during the practicies.

What poinst did disturb them more: I moved to Angola as I realized how what I was looking for had more space there. This after beeing studyind ACpoeira with this same and first and only master.

But I felt I needed to move forward, see!!!

Well, give thanks for the insights this reasoning had offered me,
genuinelly!!!

Mandingo.
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Haile,
Wisdom, Knowledge, Strenght & Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IanI
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« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2003, 06:31:46 AM »

Irie Ras Mandingo,

First... does me live a Jamaica still...
me mother a live in the states and is old and in need of help so I am here for a time. But I get forward to me gates in the hills as often as possible. Soon... I hope. Me sister may take me mother for a time. Seen

Next... about the book...
well... research is one thing, but experience is quite another. Perhaps the best for start would be to get to the books written by Rastas and write to them publishers asking for the books to be written in Portuguese. Maybe something like that, eh.
And me glad you no see I as "oracle" :O... hahahaha!!!!
give thanks!

And the thing me see about the group thing the I a go through is not so much 'patronizing'... however...
you emotions were the first to respond when you get the e-mail, no?
And you write and say you 'master' de send it... but later you say that master no send it.
So... all I can do here is point out that you must work upon those emotions as reaction to the circumstances in you life. Emotions can get the better a we every time if we no learn to control them. Can be the cause of much mis-under-standing and wrongdoing.
And it sounds like the emotions is the problem with the ones in you first group that feel need to critisize you fe making the move.

Emotion... a whole nother topic!

Be irie Ras...

ONE LOVE/HEART/MIND
IanI Rastafari
Guidance and Protection
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Ras Mandingo
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Posts: 460


« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2003, 07:24:53 AM »

Give thanks for the words once again Elder IanI!!!

Good Idea you give about translations. I already translated the book "Marijuana and the bible" frrom the former member of the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church, Jeff Brown, who lives in Miami. I managed to reason with him by e-mail and he gave all the support to the project. I'm woeking to save money so I can edit it.

Another book I'm starting to translate is Rastafari - Healing of the Nations (By Dennys Forsythe).

About the other topic (emotions), I was meditating yseterday how true is this that you said. A lot of times people use emotions as a way of stoping the reasoning to go deeper and deeper.

How do you relate with emotive people, I use honesty, pacience, love and perceeption, praying that the effective words and ways are revealed to me when I need to.

Really love reasoning with the I,

Give thanks for the words once again.

Mandingo.
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Haile,
Wisdom, Knowledge, Strenght & Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jojo
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« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2003, 09:24:25 PM »

GREETINGS in the sight of the ALMIGHTY CREATOR
may we all be purified in heart soul & spirit.....
GIVING THANKS for the breath of life this day and now night is coming in the SF bay area.....it is truly a gift!
i am a new member to this group.....i won't call myself RASTAFARI...
i am a caucasian female...seeking truth & wisdom......was led to this website.....
reading this thread had me reflect upon a song i wrote awhile back....took me hours to find the paper i wrote it on and then i revised it a lil bit........i was gonna post it in the poetry section but then decided to post it here..........here it goes....

I'VE GOT THE WHITE MAN'S DISEASE

all my hair is falling out
i don't think before i open my mouth
and my bones are getting thin
but i'll step on your feet and keep on walking

all my food comes in a package
and all my kids' toys are made of plastic
at night i turn on the TV set
just to see how i'm supposed to live

i've got a dozen products to put on my face
and even more anti-bacterial to clean my place
i've got chemicals for every season
the bugs and the weeds give me the reason

most of my dinner goes to waste
still i can't look a beggar in the face
i just pretend they don't exist
hope they don't speak to me or try to persist

i need my money for the tanning salon
$10,000 more goes to my plastic surgeon
for the collagen in my lips
and the silicon in my breast & hips

why don't you just go get a job
instead of hanging around here looking like a slob
go comb and cut your hair
because i don't feel comfortable when my children stop & stare

and if you don't conform to my beliefs
my government will destroy you & your family
with drugs and the "JUST-US" system
we'll keep your strong ones down or just lock them up in prison

and when my kid's try to rebel
i'll blame it all on you and say "you're going to hell"
and disown them from the family
while tagging them with the name of "BLACK SHEEP"


i've got the WHITE MAN'S DISEASE.........
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Ras Mandingo
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« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2003, 06:05:08 AM »

Give thnaks for this realistic lines Jojo.

Welcome to the reasoning board...and let's reason.

Let's get free of the white man's disease by becoming aware of what is normal, natural, vitilizing, uplifiting, positive and righteous in Jah sight.

Blessings,

Mandingo.
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Haile,
Wisdom, Knowledge, Strenght & Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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