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Author Topic: White supremacy in Black movements  (Read 38848 times)
Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2003, 02:56:35 PM »

There should be no doubt in our minds, that is PURE blacks, NEGROID AFRIKAN people on this planet with black/dark complexion and Negroid features, who are more likely to be subjugated, raped and murdered. In any case, so few people with “fair” complexion are victimized that it's not even a number. Every action produces an equal and opposite reaction. The reaction of Negro-blacks to retrench multiracial so-called black people, non-blacks and all whites alike, but inspire Negroid blacks is merely Self-Preservation. Who is to deny that Negro-blacks of today to be the most victimized by whites also when they live in a predominantly black area or a black country? Who is to deny to Negro-Afrikans Inspiration and Unity?

“FAIR” SKINNED PEOPLE GREATLY BENEFITED FROM THE OPPRESSION OF BLACK CITIZENS OVER THE CENTURIES and its Negroid blacks citizens not getting it fair share of the benefits out of the relationship. Thus, I do not hold any allusions about  people with “fair” complexion willing to help us solve our problems. They play off some credulous but they do not fool the informed and educated Afrikans of the Negroid Black PURE Race. We cannot afford to compromise the Truth in the hope that it will release pent up Multiracial, non-Blacks or whites altruism constrained by black methodology.

I have the faith that with Separation, inspiration and Unity, Negro-Afrikans (the most victimized in this world) can rise to reach greatness and full potential, despite Asians, Arabs, Europeans, light skinned so called Blacks rape and exploitation and them being Upset at our Message and Method. So to Negro-Amerikkkans, Negro-Brazilians, Negro-Untouchables of INDIA, Negro Australian Aboriginals, Negro-Black Caribbeans, Negroid Afrikans, Negro-Europeans, NEGROID people all around the world, the time has come to start working to preserve Black Kulture and History as well as preserve our Blackness and prerogative. NEGRO-BLACK NATIONALISM is self-Defense, it is our only hope to withstand the EVIL designs of modern Materialism.


Bantu-Kelani.
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We should first show solidarity with each other. We are Africans. We are black. Our first priority is ourselves.
MUATA
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2003, 12:04:38 AM »

     YES I, excellent reasoning, as this is bringing forth very important topics to I struggle.  

      Give thanks Ras Benjamine, Rootswoman, for I&I's needed insight, And Ras Tyehimba for making a very clear and true reasoning; as I would not try and dispute at all that dark africans are treated with the worst downpression, of any one on earth and absolutely feel the full blast of rascism. for this is the very intention of the color caste system, to declare white the highest and black the lowest; and everyone else is supposed to line up in order according to their shade, between these two, while fighting each other to reach the top. And whatever caste you are your supposed to help hold blackie down! hence the saying "if you white you right, if you brown stick around, but if you black get back, here comes the attack!
     
         I would just like to remind I&I that many of these light-skinned africans, are the direct result of racism on dark africans, and many times, it is attempt by dark africans to sidestep this downpression in future generations. though this tactic has failed horribly!
     
        I dont think anyone in this paticular reasoning, so-far would try to deny dark africans rightful place within our struggle, and within our world, in fact, speaking for I-self, I have no intention, to TRY and obtain leadership with-in our stuggle, I having enough trouble trying to lead I-self!

        Though I am doing I best to HELP, the forward movement(whose leaders are already chosen)of I&I culture, toward placing africans in I&I rightful place on earth,once again; and I am very sure this could still be accomplished with or without I! though I must serve H.I.M., and serve I purpose!

       As I have said already, let the elders, furthermore the people within an african movement decide who is their leader, and let them be black and have itegrity, and princpality's,  and characta! whether they are light or dark!
       
       I man's only arguements here are; first with Ayinde, not in his message,  or in his knowledge of the rightful focal point of I&I movement, or racial complexities within white supremist idealogy, but in his clear separtion of africans from africans, worst of all CLASSING THEM WITH WHITES, this is cause for  reasoning, as I feel it distorts and diverts the importance of the topic by making his meaning unclear! This may be a type unity, but it's not centralisation!

       Secondly, with Bantu Kelani, in her statement;
  "so few people with 'fair' complexion are victimized that its not even a number" this is rediculous! I am surprised to here such a statement from a sista as knowledgeable and enlightened as you! I wont mention the thousands of important present day and historical brothas and sistas, victimized over and over.  im not arguing whether darkskin africans have it worse, this is obvious.but this statement hurts I becuz,  of the thousands of victimized lightskinned africans ,also victimized everyday in this country,  often killed, consistantly raped, at least a dozen of wich I personally know! whos blood and pain never reach the newspaper,often at the hands of whitecops. this statements negates their life, blood, and pain as meaningless, and non-existent.

   If I&I dont remember these lost and torn brothas and sistas, who will. many of them died for our people, resisting white supremacy! I think your statement came out of emotion, please watch what you say, as your statements are powerful! careful where you shoot them, you cant take back a bullet once it has left the gun! finally I not sure about this term 'greatly' in regards to the benefits of lightskinned africans becuz of darkskin oppression. as the majority of lightskinned africans still live in the ghettos with the majority of darkskin africans. though I am very sure more light skin africans are able to get out and find it easier to get work in some feilds. I dont think but a handful of any type of black people could refer to their condition as 'great'. within this system, no matter how hard they try and pretend to be white!
  BLESSED LOVE IS BLACK SUPREMACY! ALL GLORY IN THE BLACK JAH OF CREATION!  I CALL ON ALL ARMEGEDION WARRIORS, FROM THE NORTH, JAH! FROM THE SOUTH JAH! FROM THE EAST,JAH! AND EVEN IN THE WEST, JAH! LET I&I CENTRALIZE, JAH, MAY JUSTICE AND FIYAH BE WITH I&I 4- IVER, STAND FIRM BROTHAS AND SISTAS, I&I TIME HAS COME, CLAIM YOU BIRTHRIGHT AND RAISE YOUR ARMS TO JAH RASTAFARI! ITIOPIA! ALL GLORY BE IN HIS HOLA NAME!

           

   
NOTE TO SIS KELANI : this is an apology for any mis-comunication as a result to my error of terms in your topic "images to remind" I refer to the I as "man kelani" with out consideration to how it would be percieved. I would like to be clear as to I meaning.
     in I mind I was just saying your name; as 'bantu' means 'man' as in mankind and it is in this form I was expressing my greeting , I meant no dis-respect. as I was not applying any masculine or feminine vibe to it. but I realized latter how it might have appeared, so I wanted to make I self clear,  I'll try and be more concious of I word, sound, power in the future! BLESSED LOVE!
          RAS LION KARUME MUATA OF JUDAH
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Ayinde
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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2003, 10:53:12 AM »

This issue also speaks to many other points especially who feel that they are most entitled to reparations and would be at the front of the line for money demanding the most if it ever was to be paid. It is interesting how some pretend that they don't understand who are the real victims of racism and gender discrimination.

If people who can pass for white, are Black in the eyes of some, then those few should have no problems with Whites in a Black Movement. Some Whites now admit that they are Africans. Many can also claim they are Black based on genetics.

The original theme of this reasoning was based on this thread:
[link=http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/reasoning/?board=general;action=display;num=1060835594]Racial Classification[/link]

Posted: Aug 14th, 2003, 12:33am  by Ras_Tyehimba[/I]

A racial classification is given to a group of individuals who share a certain number of anthropological traits, which is necessary so that they not be confused with others. There are two aspects which must be distinguished, the phenotypical and genotypical. I have frequently elaborated on these two aspects.  

If we speak only of the genotype, I can find a black who, at the level of his chromosomes, is closer to a Swede than Peter Botha is.  But what counts in reality is the phenotype. It is the physical appearance which counts. This black, even if on the level of his cells he is closer than Peter Botha, when he is in South Africa he will live in Soweto. Throughout history, it has always been the phenotype which has been at issue; we mustn't lose sight of this fact. The phenotype is a reality, physical appearance is a reality.
 
###

This is one of my earlier responses on the other board.

Posted By: selassieilive [link=http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/cgi-bin/forum/config.pl?read=31560]Rastafari Speaks Board[/link]
Date: Friday, 15 August 2003, at 1:18 p.m.

Quote
Greetings Ayinde
Give thanks for the post. I agree with:

"Another role for really enlightened Whites in a Black movement today is to expose these truths and help uproot and expose other Whites or fair skinned people who try to usurp the legitimate authority or bring more division and distractions to a Black Earth-Based movement. This is the truth of conduct that continually demonstrates their understanding of right order and spiritual growth. They work towards the restoration of truth and justice on earth."

But I must ask, Isn't a light skinned (black/white mix) still considered black? There are many light-skinned Northern Afrikans. Afrikans come in high complexion down to low complexion. Is InI to base their acceptance into Ras Tafari based on degrees of complexion or what is in their mind/heart?

There are always exceptions to the rule. Even when it comes to whites who embrace Ras Tafari.

Guidance
selassieilive


Posted By: Ayinde
Date: Friday, 15 August 2003, at 1:49 p.m.
In Response To: Re: [link=http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/cgi-bin/forum/config.pl?read=31568]White Supremacy in Black movements (selassieilive)[/link]


Quote
"But I must ask, Isn't a light skinned (black/white mix) still considered black?"

Yes, in a general sense they are but racism plays itself out on the varying shades of shin color that negatively impacts on Blackest of people the most. This can never be dismissed in a Black Movement. Once someone can pass for white they are the wrong symbol and they will lack the necessary real Black experiences to convey the truth of racial discrimination.

For example, there was this fair-skinned Venezuelan female who went up for the miss Universe contest, when she came here she proudly say she was Black much to the amazement of many Blacks and whites in the Caribbean. (I have been to Venezuela often so I know how race is played out there) But after saying that, she was completely silly when questioned about racism in her country and made many laugh at her. You see, she lacked the real Black Man and Woman’s (by hue) experiences to articulate the issues, so instead she did us all an injustice. I have seen this often.

Quote
There are many light-skinned Northern Afrikans. Afrikans come in high complexion down to low complexion. Is InI to base their acceptance into Ras Tafari based on degrees of complexion or what is in their mind/heart?


I am speaking about dealing with White superiority, which on its base level negatively impacts on Blacks (by skin color) the most.
(Check the extract from Diop’s book on the reasoning forum and my response to it. It is in the General Board under the heading Racial Classification on a thread started by Ras_Tyehimba.)

Anyone can be accepted into Rastafari or a Black movement but how he or she conducts himself or herself is another thing. A light skinned African automatically gets more privileges in this western dominated system so therefore they feed more into the white supremist status quo and are poor symbols for Black liberation.

They can learn and support but never lead. To restore the balance, leadership and control should return to enlighten Black African people and the Blacker the better. Once someone can get privileges in the white system then they automatically have access to more in this material world and must never get status over a more suitable Black person in a Black Movement.

Again, Blacks should decide this, as we are primarily addressing White superiority and its privileges that throw material benefits in varying degrees to those of lighter complexion. The Blacker and more informed the person is in this upside down system, the more experiences they will bring to the table to help expose and overturn this corrupt system that continually tries to disenfranchise the Blackest of people especially enlightened Black women.
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selassieilive
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« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2003, 03:05:54 PM »

Greetings Ayinde
While I agree that "historically," lighter-skinned blacks get more priviledges than darker hues, I dont think it is true across the board.  What of the exceptions to the rule?  Ones should be chosen to lead by merit, regardless of their shade of black.  If InI start choosing leaders merely on skin color, InI will be taken a risk in hoping that those dark black people can lead.  I live in the hood and see suffering black people of all shades.  When I go to work, I see black sellouts of all shades.  Are lighter skinned people to blame that there foremothers were raped(or consentual) by euro-peons?  They are not rasponsible for the shade they were born.  Now u tell them that they are not black enough to be a leader in the black communities.  With the shituation in the black communities, InI give thanks if a "light-skin" steps forward and takes the role as a  leader.  

Quote
White people or persons of a light complexion can never be real leaders in a Black based movement. This is the simple fact. Titles of leadership, eldership and control must always be in the hands of real Black people in a Black movement. They are not allowed to help decide for the Black masses whom they should follow and they should not be allowed to be the spokespeople for Blacks.


What is a real black person?  Is the criteria based on skin color or mental?  How does white and "light-skin" equate as the same?  To Iman, this is Willie Lynch to the extreme.  Ones seperate each other so much that one group becomes identified with, and part of another, based solely on the shade of their skin.  

I sight what u are saying.  I agree that it applies to quite a few lighter skinned people here in Babylon.  I goes back to the house nigger - field nigger divide.  But it is unity InI seek.  A house divided amongst itself will never prosper.   Ones good works done for Black people should  decide for the Black masses whom they should follow and be allowed to be the spokespeople for Blacks.  Not just their shade of Blackness.  I would be more concerned about the Blackness of mind and heart.

One Black Love
selassieilive

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Until the lion has a historian of his own, the tale of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Ayinde
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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2003, 03:37:14 PM »

On the 15th I responded to you twice and I wrote this:

Posted By: Ayinde [link=http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/cgi-bin/forum/config.pl?read=31568]Rastafari Speaks Message Board[/link]
Date: Friday, 15 August 2003, at 1:49 p.m.[/I]

Quote
To restore the balance, leadership and control should return to enlighten Black African people and the Blacker the better.


and

Posted By: Ayinde [link=http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/cgi-bin/forum/config.pl?read=31581]Rastafari Speaks Message Board[/link]
Date: Friday, 15 August 2003, at 2:09 p.m.[/I]

Quote
So a well-informed real Black person has more experiences from which to articulate the issue from the deepest to the highest.

I gave further clarification to real Black Person on the same day that I made the original post. I further added well-informed and enlighten to give a better idea of what I mean by a real black person.  It seams like some are not interested in what I meant by well-informed and enlightened.
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MUATA
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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2003, 11:38:09 PM »

       HAIL UP! AYINDE! try and listen to what I man saying, I overstand your meaning of well informed and enlightened dark black people in leadership. I agree,  not just with this but with most all of the topic! I think all enlightened black people would.
     I man input into this, is not from dis-agreement with the content, but with it's presentation! ya no see it!? the last thing I&I black race needs is division among our selves; and when you class blacks (any shade) with whites, putting I&I in the same boat as them... well as you can see from this reasoning ,division is what it creates! the white issue is not the same as the light black issue, when I&I are done dealing whitie, I&I must deal with lightie, but not as a enemy, as a brotha or sista who has forgotten who he is, and has been CONfused by the victimization  of whitie!
     I am not going to try and tell you how you should speak, or choose your words. I am only asking you to separate these two very different issues, the whiteman is the downpressor of the african, the light skin african is not; though he has been used as a tool by the downpressor,  relying on the self hatred and desperate ignorance, of lightie to enforce his so- called superiority over blackie. This is not do to lightie's illusion of priviledge, in a society where he will never be equal. but it is do to the fact I&I are like crayfish in a barrel trying to climb,crawl , and push each other to the bottom; just to reach the top, not even realizing, that if they do reach it,they will be on their way to the frying pan for whities dinner!

    anyway,, I sure you know the complexities of I&I struggle, I just cant accept seeing  whitie and lightie placed in the same boat. when in fact blackie and lightie is in the same boat ,true as it is ,that blackie is at the bottom of the boat, and many times lightie has try tip I&I over!
    This is exactly why blackie must rise up and take the forefront of I&I movement, and remind lightie of to whom he belongs.
     as for I, I glory in seeing the deeper depths and higher ites , of the dark black as mid-night mixed with mid-night, brothas and sistas in leadership positions of I&I movements toward freeman african civilization,as it brings great joy to I heart, and I am posed and ready to stand at I&I side in battle  against white supremacy, no matter how the I wish to express his truth, as I&I are centralized in the forward advancement of I&I race!
     In reality I&I should know that from time to time some brothas of extraordinary charactas will be chosen as leaders, by black people and some of them may be lightskinned!
     I would like to know how the I ranks H.I.M. HAILE SALASSIE I in ability to lead dark black africans? in your opinion is HE qualified as "real black" enough?

       From I&I stance he is the ultimate true leader of black people, and the world. and the perfect role model example. to all black people and leaders! second to none. If I didnt feel so; I would be a part of some other pan-african movement. for I only RasTafari fulfills every aspect of I livity. with  respect do to all pan-african movement.

      so as RasTafari ,I would like to say, that within I cultural perspective,spiritual,intelectual, and physical! all I&I leaders have already been elected,by I&I elders, and selected, by H.I.M. and shall not change until judgement has been completed! And it will please the concious to know that at least 98% of I&I leaders are of unmixed dark african stock, as it has always been from the inception, unbroken, unchanged, modern antiques.  In truth, to I knowledge the lightest SKIN leader with-in I culture that I am aware of is H.I.M. HIMSELF!
         FOWARD ALL AFRICAN ARMEGIDEON WARRIORS, CENTRALIZE INTO BLACK SUPREMACY ITES , AND CLAIM YOUR PASSAGE , CLAIM YOUR BIRTHRIGHT. FIYAH FI DE FALSE ROAD, ONE BLACK JAH FOR US ALL!      
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ROOTSWOMAN
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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2003, 08:19:24 AM »

Greetings,

Give thanks unto Ras Selassieilive and Muata for their clear and wise discernment and RASTA perspective.  InI appreciaLOVE the wordsound and OVERstanding of the Afrikan Reality/Experience, in all its variations and complexities.

United we stand.  Divided we fall.

ROOTS
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SANKOFA!
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