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+  Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum
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| | |-+  Religious trickery (Racism tied to Religion)
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Author Topic: Religious trickery (Racism tied to Religion)  (Read 53414 times)
Rootsie
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« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2003, 07:16:20 AM »

"Your summary was helpful, but I much prefer to read original texts as opposed to interpretations of or hearsay regarding them. I hope that my posts bear this out."

Africa has been beset by Greek and Arabic and European observors for over a thousand years. Check some of them. There are copious sites on this internet that describe these African traditions, transmitted mouth to mouth from ancient times up to this day without disruption, even through slavery. You look for 'sacred texts' as though they are 'the proof' of the validity of a tradition, and fail to see the strength of oral tradition, especially in terms of historical accuracy. To those entrusted to transmit the stories, accuracy is a sacred duty.
These are your ancestors, sir. It is well that you should approach without a set of preconditions for accepting the validity of their worldview.
Rootsie
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Rootsie
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« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2003, 08:51:27 AM »

This is not to say there are not also written texts...
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ryu
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2003, 02:20:51 PM »

Rootsie, I have read all the Greek and Roman descriptions of Egypt (Egyptians) and Nubia (Nubians). Ultimately though, like later observations (Arab or European), these descriptions are only hearsay. In no way was I attempting to deny the validity of oral traditions, for when I asked whether “their beliefs or theologies” have been “recorded in modern times” I am referring to oral cultures. In the case of such cultures, have their oral traditions been recorded in translation- rather than merely summarized or described? If so, what are the names given to these texts? I could search for such things on the internet and by the bibliographies of books, but thought it would be easier to simply ask someone who appears to know about these matters.    
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ryu
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2003, 02:23:19 PM »

Bantu-Kelani, while I am certainly lighter than most regarded as being black, I am not “white.” It is therefore odd that I should be accused of promoting a “white supremacist agenda.” I am Chinese, Norwegian and Cree- and it is perhaps this rare combination which compels me to reject race, for while I of course can trace my own ancestral lineage, by any conventional measurement of the term “race,” I do not belong to such a thing. Thus, while I am not “colorblind” and accept that different people have particular lineages, I do not believe in race- if the term is understood as a category defined by lineage that associates skin color and other such traits (eye color, etc.) with other characteristics such as intelligence. Accordingly, you are correct to note that I am not “interested in debating Racial Issues.” I never claimed to want to take up such debates here. My first post bears this out: I said nothing about race, as I was concerned primarily with your statements regarding ancient and medieval history.
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ryu
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2003, 02:27:45 PM »

Ayinde, since you raise the issue of “disrespect,” it must first be said that respect should not be placed on a one-way street. While critical of certain statements made by Bantu-Kelani, my first post was not disrespectful. Yet I was greeted by a rant in which, among other things, I was falsely accused of “insidiously making an apology for the Religious Invasions.” More recently, Bantu-Kelani has implied that I uphold some “white supremacist agenda.” Meanwhile, you have made allegations as to my “arrogance” and “delerium,” as well as call me “rude and obnoxious.” I have never made such accusations and ad hominem attacks. Thus far, Rootsie is the only person to have responded to my posts with respect- and I have tried to respond in kind.

Related to this is the fact that most responses to my post have focused on my identity- as if my identity alone can establish or deny the veracity of my arguments. Indeed, most recently you have erroneously suggested that my ignorance of certain African “cultures/ spirituality” (to which I fully admit) is even relevant to the issues I first raised. On the contrary:

I do not need to know about the said African cultures/ spirituality in order to question the contention that "The bible's main purpose was a justification and a rationalization for the slave trade against people outside of Europe. That is the whole purpose and it was created from a collection of books for European Power desires."

I do not need to know about the said African cultures/ spirituality in order to question the claims, as left unsubstantiated, that "What the world fail to realize is that before Europe came into existence in 808 BCE with Homer there was over 10,000 years of African Civilization before the Greeks and AFRICAN WERE MUCH MORE SPIRITUAL AND HAD MUCH MORE INTEGRITY."

I do not need to know about the said African cultures/ spirituality in order to question the assertion that "Now Islam and the Arabs came to Africa when the Africans were trying to get the Romans of their Back and Islam and the Arabs did get the Romans off the Africans Back."

I do not need to know about the said African cultures/ spirituality in order to question the claim that "Bible LITERALISM is OUTDATED and MEDIAVAL, BEST LEFT TO THOSE in DARKAGES!!"

I do not need to know about the said African cultures/ spirituality in order to question Bantu_Kelani’s interpretation of the destruction of the temple of Serapis, the destruction of the library of Alexandria and the murder of Hypatia.

I do not need to know about the said African cultures/ spirituality in order to question the claim that " during this same time archaeology findings like the Rosetta stone were producing replica texts of Christianity before there was a Bible produced."

As I made clear (see point 4 in my first post), Bantu-Kelani had no knowledge of the theological traditions of medieval Christendom. Two comparisons need to be made. First, just as I do not need any knowledge of the said African traditions in order, for example, to argue that the murder of Hypatia was not motivated by Rome’s desire to extinguish Egyptian culture, she does not need knowledge of medieval European theology in order to discuss the policies of Leopold II. Secondly, there is an important difference between us: while she makes statements about things of which she knows little (medieval theology, etc.), I refrain from discussing those things of which I am ignorant. Indeed, I have readily sought knowledge of these things from those who appear to be knowledgeable of them.
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Ayinde
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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2003, 03:23:12 PM »

You feel you do not need to know many things and maybe for what you desire it is so.

You will not be able to relate to many people especially as you feel that you have the only interpretation to history from your Greek and whatever sources that are void of an authentic African reality.

Well, there are many informed Africans (not the mentally enslaved ones especially many in academic circles) who will not share with you given how much you do not need to know before trying to correct someone.  I am certain that your confidence in your version of what is important will make it very difficult for you to be anything other that someone with a false superiority complex.

You missed the point because of the many things you do not know.

If you are lucky enough to win Bantu Kelani's favour (not an easy task but a worthwhile exercise), I am sure she knows a whole lot more about real life history and spirituality which certainly is not a puerile academic exercise.

Maybe, one day you can learn how people really do connect through time/history and can experience real joys and sufferings from a distant past.

This is the reality of indigenous Africans and conscious people today. This is not academic; this is real life.
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