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Tyehimba
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« on: October 06, 2003, 08:06:23 PM »

Democracy Was Not What They Had On Their Minds

by Marquita Hill

America is a land of myths - tall tales and downright lies told and
retold until they seem to carry the weight of history. And they're not
just any old stories, good for entertainment. They have a serious
purpose, which is to persuade us not only that we live in the best of
all possible worlds but that the world we live in is the only one
possible.

One of the most powerful of these myths has to do with democracy. It
starts with the authors and their supposed devotion to a government "of
the people, by the people and for the people." The truth is that the
authors were wealthy white men of property who wrote a Constitution that
legally defined a Black person as three fifths of a human being and
restricted the vote to men like themselves.

Having won, by force of arms, their independence from England, the
authors, Slaveholders, bankers, merchants, lawyers and land barons set
about the task of fashioning a state in their own image. For inspiration
they turned to their older bourgeois cousins in Europe. Author Alexander
Hamilton was an ardent admirer of England's House of Lords (a body of
Britain's filthy rich which exists to this day) as a bulwark against the
pernicious innovation" of the masses. "All communities divide themselves
into the few and the many, " this aristocrat told the Constitutional
Convention. "The first are the rich and well born, the other the mass of
the people. Give, therefore, to the first class a distinct, permanent
share in the government. They will check the unsteadiness of the second
... nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy."

From the very first presidential elections, this philosophy of keeping
the masses in check was carried out in practice. The much-lamented "low
voter turnout" is in fact an institutionalized part of America's
political machinery. While in some years some states chose their
Presidential electors by popular vote (electors are the people who to
this day actually choose the President), for many decades it was common
for the electors to be selected by the state legislatures that is, rich
white folks.

The first genuinely contested election in United States history took
place in 1796 and 1792 (George Washington was unanimously chosen by the
electors) when John Adams ran against Thomas Jefferson. The popular vote
counts were 18,017 for Adams -- a Founding Father who six years before
the Declaration of Independence had served as a lawyer for British
troops after the Boston Massacre -- to 12,306 for Virginia slaveholder
Jefferson. Less than 1% of the population actually voted in that
election.

For the next three decades, the number of states holding popular
presidential elections increased, until by 1828 only two states,
Delaware and South Carolina, continued in the old way. The popular vote
rose slowly but steadily during those years, as more states were added
to the Union and as political agitation by small white farmers and
workers, gradually forced the elimination of property ownership as a
requirement for voting eligibility. In 1800, Jefferson beat Adams in a
rematch, 11,694 to 7,891. Jefferson was re-elected four years later when
he defeated fellow slaveholder Charles Pinckey, 76,421 to 35,953. Total
votes didn't top a million until Native American killer Andrew Jackson's
defeat of John Quincy Adams in 1828.

As popular participation slowly broadened, new methods of control were
needed to keep the masses of Americans locked out of power while
maintaining the myth of democracy. In the 1830's, the two party system
was invented to accomplish this purpose. The parties would guarantee
voters a "choice" between two candidates chosen behind dosed doors by
the ruling elite: a further modification -- party primaries -- was still
many decades away.

The struggle for enfranchisement continued also. African Americans were
not granted the vote until 90 years after the American Revolution and
then only to have it effectively taken away for nearly another century
after the defeat of Reconstruction and the onset of Jim Crow. Women did
not receive the vote until 1922. Native Americans, who were not
"granted" citizenship until the 20th century was well underway, got the
vote even later.

The early history of American elections lays bare the foundations of
presidential politics. Handfuls of white, male propertied voters
established the precedent that only their kind would sit in the White
House. That precedent, 204 years later, remains unshaken.
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iyah360
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2003, 06:49:12 AM »

Peace.

Check the book, "Secret Societies of America's Elite" by Steven Sora.

It goes into the founding of the US, and the real motives behind its founding by capitalistic interests who found Britain's trade system not FREE enough for their interests.
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illskillz
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2003, 01:20:25 PM »

why do you all carp and complain and not even try to fix the problems that exist huh. please forgive me but I&I am just not guided in that direction to accept this over here. my main problem is lack of unity of diasporian black people,

2) no commitment, egos etc.

there are those who say I&I complain too much and that things must be fine as they are now so there is no need to be upset and die and go to heaven under Jesus name. but I know and overstand, got to look for yours on earth.
not letting religion whatever take me from my goals,
have read marx and fraud,  if we want a better life we need to work as a collective but that is some how hard to do and we consider ourselves adults. How do we expect to get restpect if we cant even work together to build a community at all. huh?  If we know that we cant get democracy here then why we dont make arraignments to leave and go back to africa as garvey did, huh. all we want to is be like whites who overstand the problems but do nothing about them. we are no better, for there are white collage proff who know africa history as well but do nothing to end the suffering.

now i do this everytime. if anyone is serious about building a real democracy before Jah that we can be proud of then get at me.  if not then dont tal, put that money where  your mouths are at.  We have done nothing since  civil rights and our best minds are being absorbed into corperate america, as we watch. many of us "dreads" would be proud of have our kids do well and succeed in babylon, why I dont know. I&I dont not want to aid our eniemy. if we have intelligence and skills then why not build our nation in the african union and not babylon? huh?   real ones hit me up please, many are called but few are chosen . we read too much and act to little
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kristine
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2003, 01:35:00 PM »

Greetings RAS Tyehimba...I don't know if you are familiar with this information...but it became a critical piece of the puzzle for myself....to a point...

What are Bilderberg Conferences all about?
TG 08Feb00 - The Bilderberg Secretariat proclaims the conferences to be '...private in order to encourage frank and open discussion'. Frank and open discussion is a good thing in any forum but when those doing the discussing are some of the very most powerful financiers and media tycoons in the world it begs the question: If what they discuss is for the good of ordinary people why not publicise it! Isn't it a perverted use of the word 'open' when no-one can find out what they're saying?

Is Bilderberg a secret conspiracy?
When such rich and powerful people meet up in secret, with military intelligence managing their security, with hardly a whisper escaping of what goes on inside, people are right to be suspicious. But the true power of Bilderberg comes from the fact that participants are in a bubble, sealed off from reality and the devastating implications on the ground of the black-science economic solutions on the table.

No, it's not a 'conspiracy'. The world's leading financiers and foreign policy strategists don't get together at Bilderberg to draw up their 'secret plans for the future'. It's subtler than that. These meetings create an artificial 'consensus' in an attempt to spellbind visiting politicians and and other men of influence. Blair has fallen for this hook, line and sinker. It's about reinforcing - often to the very people who are on the edge of condemning Globalisation - the illusion that Globalisation is 'good', 'popular' and that it's inevitable.

Bilderberg is an extremely influential lobbying group. That's not to say though that the organisers don't have a hidden agenda, they do, namely acumulation of wealth and power into their own hands whilst explaining to the participants that globalisation is for the good of all. It is also a very good forum for 'interviewing' potential future political figures such as Clinton (1991?) and Blair (1993).

The ideology put forward at the Bilderberg conferences is that what's good for banking and big business is good for the mere mortals of the world. Silently banished are the critical voices, those that might point out that debt is spiralling out of control, that wealth is being sucked away from ordinary people and into the hands of the faceless corporate institutions, that millions are dying as a direct result of the global heavyweight Rockefeller/Rothschild economic strategies.

When looking at one of the (partially reliable) participant lists it should be remembered that quite a number of participants are invited in an attempt to get them on-board the globalisation project. These are carefully selected people of influence, who have been openly critical of globalisation. Examples are Jonathan Porritt (Bilderberg 1999) and Will Hutton (Bilderberg 1997) but there are many others. Most of these kinds of participants are happy to speak about the conference afterwards, and may even be refreshingly critical.

The Bilderberg organisers are accepted by those 'in the know' as the prophets of Capitalism. Will Hutton, deputy Editor of The Observer newspaper in London and left-leaning Economist, described private clubs of the elite as masterminded by 'The High Priests of Globalisation'. The ecclesiastical allusion is not accidental. The Bilderberg high-priests are a force against good, out to wipe morality from the earth. For the organisers Bilderberg Conferences are an annual ideological assault by the world's most power-hungry people. Not content with owning unimaginable amounts of money and property they want to use that wealth to acquire even more power for themselves. Power is the most dangerous and addictive drugs known to man. Will the craving be satisfied when a handful of men own and control everything on earth?

And just like the Nazi party in the 1930's the global Capitalist Elite are rising in power by peaceful means. There are some very uncomfortanble and unexplained connections between Bilderberg and the Nazis through the Conference's founder Prince Bernhard.

These crown princes of capital use violence at the sharp end - the destruction of dissent - the repossession of homes men and women have worked a lifetime for - needless deaths from starvation and geopolitical machinations - this violence is notable by its absence from the annual meetings.

One can't help but wonder, when the Bilderberg organisers, Rothschild, Rockefeller, Kissinger and the rest have completed their project of enclosing all global goods and services into their own hands, enclosing too the media to stop people freely discussing what they are up to. What then?? What happens when the men who would be gods turn out to be the global devils?

Who is behind Bilderberg?
Bilderberg is run by a Steering Group - if you're wondering who's responsible for so much of the capital-friendly and dissent-crushing law-making, poverty and general misery in the world this may be the place to look. Up-to-date lists are available from the Bilderberg Secretariat. This is the closest approximation to a shadow world government. And this is another hidden agenda at Bilderberg.

There may be other groups pulling the strings behind even the Steering Group possibly even high degree occult groups such as The Masons or Illuminati! [eg.] - but that is 'conspiracy theory', Bilderberg is not.

There must certainly be some sociopathic minds behind Bilderberg since they go to so much trouble to promote policies that lead to exploitation, inequality and despair. These individuals seem oddly switched off from the suffering they are clearly causing. Surely only pernicious people would want to control the ideology of the world's mainstream press, and undermine natural political discourse. Public opinion and democratic institutions are a threat when you want to own the world.

The perverse objective of the Bilderberg Steering Group is to dress totalitarian corporate ideology up to appear rational and push it out for mass consumption under Chatham House rules without anyone knowing where these 'inevitable' ideas have come from. Meanwhile, outside the Bilder-bubble, 'god-is-money' globalisation is on the loose with the greedy given a pat on the back as they destroy both the earth and the human spirit.


http://www.centrexnews.com/members/bilderberg/
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Kebo
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2003, 05:45:37 PM »


Crazy, and scary, sh*t. The whole power-money game must make those elite men literally crazy. If you're not crazy and self-centered you probably can't break into that elite. And if you do somehow and get the power without being crazy they'll probably kill you.

How did the English get their grubby hands on American real estate in the first place? Didn't Christopher Columbus discover this land, wasn't he Spanish. England are the colonizing kings of the planet. I guess I should go back and study my world history.
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African justice - white redemption
illskillz
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2003, 09:43:17 AM »

 YALL SOUND LIKE COWARDS AFRID TO CHALLENGE THE SYSTEM SO YOU TALK TRASH BEHIND THE MASSA BACK THINKING YOU EMPOWERING YOURSELF IN SOME LIL MINISCHOOL WAY.  THAT TO ME IS CHILDISH REALLY.  TO SAY THAT TO TAKE POWER ONE NEEDS TO BE SELF CENTERED IS TRUE NO DOUBT IN WHAT YOU PEOPLE ACCEPT AS REALITY,(WHY i&i DONT KNOW).  BUT THE TRUTH REMAINS IRONIC IN THAT ALL OF YOU ARE SELF CENTERED THAT IS WHY YOU DONT WANT TO MAKE ANY REALY COMMITMENT OTHER THAN 2 CENTS WORTH OF COMMENTARY THAT WILL CHANGE NOTHING AND ADD ON THE THE OVERALL FEELING OF HOPELESS NESS.

THE WHOLE SITUALTION REMINDS ME OF MY OLD GRAND WHEN SHE WE WITH US, SHE USED TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW WEAK SHE WAS UNTIL SHE HAD TO DO SOMETHING THAT SHE WANTED TO DO. THEN SHE HAD THE POWER SOMEHOW. THUS PROVING THE POWER IS WITHIN IF YOU WANT IT, YOU CAN HAVE A BETTER LIFE BUT YOU WOULD REATHER COMPLAIN THAN EMPOWER YOURSELVES WHICH i&i INTERPRET AS SELFISH TO THE NEXT GENERATION OF KIDS.

I&i READ WORDS LIKE CANT IN YOUR COMMENTARIES, MARCUS SAYS IF WE THINK LIKE THAT WE ARE TWICE DEFEATED. i&i WONDERED IF YOU HAVE EVEN STUDIED THE MAN AT ALL CLAIMING TO BE DREADS. YEAH RIGHT. JAH KNOWS YOUR JUST HYPOCRITES BUT i&i HIT TOO HARD AND YA LIL EGOS WILL GET HURT BY THE TRUTH, BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT IN THE REAL WORLD BIG KIDS DONT CRY AND THEY GET THINGS DONE, NOT CRY ABOUT WHY THEY CANT.

WE ARE AFRAID TO TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY, LIKE SOME CHILDREN.  WHAT IF DAVID WAS AFRIAD OF GOLIATH,

OR IF THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE AFRIAD OF ENGLAND WHO WAS THE STRONGEST MILITARY POWER OF THE TIME, GET THE METAPHORE, (USA IS THE STRONGEST TODAY)

LIKE THEM OR NOT THE ARABS ARE STARVING AND HAVE LIL KIDS THROWING STONES, AND FIGHTING A SUPERPOWER WITH BASICALLY HANDGUNS YA BUT THEY ARE TAKING ON A
FORCE BIGGER THAN THEM SELVES AND DOING DAMMAGE AND MIGHT WIN, AS DID THE VIETNAMESE,

THE REALITY IS THAT IF WE PUT FORTH AN EFFORT WHO KNOWS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN OR WHO OR WHAT FORCE WOULD AID US, FRANCE AND SPAIN ADDED THE US REVOLUTION. I&I BELIEVE WE COULD FIND HELP IF WE NEEDED IT. BUT MODERN DREADS WANT TO PARTY AND PRETEND TO LOOK SMART SO THEY CAN GET THE OPPOSITE SEX WHICH IS WANT MOST PEOPLE OF THIS GENERATION ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN.  WE HAVE ON GUTS AND WILL GET WHAT GUTLESS PEOPLE GET IN THE END.  CHALLENGE ME I DARE YOU.
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Yann
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2003, 10:14:52 AM »

If going the route of the Arabs is what you see as the solution to our problems, then you are free to strap yourself to a stick of dynamite and sit on the white house lawn, or pelt big stones at the windows if you wish. Serious people will find serious solutions.

You have not yet tried to engage anyone on the issues at hand and your conduct is not only irritating but also bordering on unacceptable on this site. This is not how we conduct ourselves here.

If you have solutions, present them. If you would like help you can ask for it. Above all this is a place where we offer help to those who honestly seek it. But do not assume that you know the works of the people on this site or continually make judgment on people’s character or intentions.

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illskillz
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2003, 11:00:28 AM »

YAN

I&I AM VERY STRONG AS A PERSON IN MY THOUGHT AND GUIDANCE. I&I YOUR COMMENTARY TO BE AS THE ESTABLISHMENT AFRAID OF NEW IDEAS AND ENEGIES THAT WILL MAKE MOVE MENTS. JUST AS THE BLACK PANTHERS  SHUCK THE  OLDER PEOPLE I AM SURE THAT MY BRASSNESS HITS YOU AS HARD. IT IS JUST IN MY GENERATION TO BE THIS STRONG MAN SORRY BOUT THAT IT THE TIME, REALLY I&I AM M0RE REASONALBLE THAN MOST YOUNG LIONS WHO WOULDNT EVEN PUT THOUGHT TO SUCH ISSUES.

BUT THE REALITY I&I KNOW IS THAT OLDER PEOPLE ARE USED TO THE RULE WE HAVE AND WONT DO THE THINGS NESSARY TO MAKE CHANGE,

AS FOR THE WHITE HOUSE COMMENT, I&I BEAUTIFULLY MADE A METAPHORE OF THE STRUGGLE OF THE ARABS IN WHICH THE WHOLE WORLD AT DURBAN AND THE US RECONIZES BUT YOU CANT YAN. (I&I HOPE YOUR STONG ENOUGH TO BE INTELLECTUALLY AND REASONALBLE CHALLENGED AND NOT INTO ABSOLUT RULERSHIP, I&I BEIEVE IN FREEDOM OF THOUGHT. YOU WILL DIS ME FOR BEING STRONG WHICH YOU MAN CLAIM AS IRRITATING, THE SAME AS MALCOM X WAS SEEN AS A PARRIAH IN HIS DAY FOR BEING TOO BLACK AND TOO STRONG, HISTORY RECORDS HIM AS A GENIUS, WHILE IN HIS DAY HE WAS OSTRASIZED AND IGNORED MY RULING CLASS BLACKS WHITES WHOMEVER, I&I KNOW HOW HE FEELS)

THE POINT REMAINS THAT I&I RESPECT THE ARABS FOR HAVING THE GUTS TO FIGHT BACK AS THE FRENCH DID WITHING THE UNDERGROUND IN WWII, AND THE MAO MAO. IS THE REVOLUTIONARY SPIRIT GONE FROM WITH IN US, HAVE WE LOST OUR FIGHT? THE FACT REMAINS THAT ISREAL IS NOW AT THE TABLE BARGAINING AND THE US IS HAVING FITS IN IRAQ.  MALCOM SAID THAT POWER YIELDS POWER ONLY TO POWER.  THIS IS THE LEVEL THAT BIG BOYS PLAY AT WE ARE IN A BIG BOYS GAME. SORRY TO BE SO REAL.  IF THE TRUTH IS IRRITATING SORRY FOR THAT ONE REALLY I&I AM.

WAR IS RUFF STILL, I&I DONT LIKE VIOLANCE BUT RESPECT THE FIGHT STILL.  

I&I DO HAVE THE PEACEFULL SOLUTION THAT WE AS A PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR BELIEVE ME. i&i KNOW SAY I CAN DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS THAT AFLICKS US STILL BUT IT IS MORE IMPORTANT IN THE SCEAME OF THING TO BUILD UNITY AND RESPECT OR THE IDEAS WONT HOLD WEATHER THEY ARE RIGHT OR WRONG.   ARE WE AT THE POINT WHERE AS WE CAN RESEPECT OUR INTELLECTS AND DISCUSS THINGS , AGREE AND DISAGREE AND STILL HAVE A DIALOG.

OR DO WE GET MAD AND LEAVE IN A HUFF WHEN OTHERS SEE THINGS DIFFERENT THAN WE DO?

WHEN I&I FEEL THAT MY INTELLECT IS RESPECTED AND PEOPLE WANT TO GIVE TIME AND NRG TO DO THIS THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT MY IDEAS TO FIX THINGS.

TRUST ME I&I IS NOT ANYBODY SMALL AT ALL. SEEN TINGS AND MOVED WITH BIG PEOPLE, SO I&I IS A BIT SERIOUS.

IF YOU WANT BUILD YAN TRUST ME THERE IS NEVER EVER EVER DISRESPECT IN THE RANKS WITH I, SEEN.  BUT SOME THINGS HAVE TO BE SAID TO SHAKE THINGS UP AT TIMES. WE ARE IN A STATE OF EMERGENCY. TRUE MAYBE THIS IS THE WRONG CREW TO DEAL WITH THINGS. AND MAYBE I&I SHOULD BE SHINE THE LIGHT ON THE POSTIVE THINGS LIKE THE FACT THAT THIS SIGHT IS EVEN UP, FOR PEOPLE TO EXCHANGE IDEAS, WHICH IS NOCH, BUT REALLY DOUGH, AS A YOUNG BLACK MALE MAN I DO BE GETTING SCAIRD AT TIMES THAT WE ARE DOOMED AND THE SYSTEM IS AGIANST I, SO I ATTACT LIKE A CAT THATS TRAPPED AND CLOSED IN.  I&I DONT BROKE STORE OR KILL MY OWN KIND TO REACT TO THE HARSH CONDITIONS IMAN DEAL WITH BUT THIS CAGED BIRD ISNT SINGING ABOUT THE CONDITIONS.  MALCOM SAID IS SWINGING WHILE THEY SINGING, ME TOO BUT I&i SWING WITH MY MIND AS THE PEN TO i IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD,

AND i&i NOTICE THAT YOU ASK ME FOR SOLUTIONS WHILE YOU DONT BE GIVING ANY. HMMMMM  JSUT ASKEIND
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Ayinde
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2003, 11:11:08 AM »

I personally may not engage you not because of your views but because of your conduct, together with the fact that I do not like reading posts written entirely in capital letters. Adjust that and you may get a dialogue going.
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illskillz
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2003, 11:56:28 AM »

now, I&I contually ask what is this conduct your refuring to?
your starting to make a brother have to tap into a lil ego that  I&I hope I&I wouldnt see. I&I have been past polite in addressing the point as my intellectual accumen is evident in my posts.

I&I seem to getting what I&I want but at what price, I&I notice that I&I have to beg black people to help themselves, but I&I know that like a good parent, a good revolutionary's job is thankless. most dont know about freddy hampton or stoakly charmicheal much less deal with them on a level.
but this is small and peity really and was just said to clear the air so that it is not misiterprated that I&I is weak as I&I yield myself for the good of the group's forward.

I&I as a young freedom fighter who will one day have to (no pun intended) have to put it on the line, relize there will be some growning pains in this organization. (that is indeed if we do organize) I&I realize that some of my young yankee yout ways dem is brass, but reality I&I use good diction at all times but the spirit of the youth is strong.  yo how I&I see things if people dem dont acknowage my points, not from an ego thing but from and respect thing, the respect level will deteriorate and we will treat each other as any old people. we must have respect for all ideas in the group. this is step one. we are now fighting amongst ourselves in front of the white man. we should be past all that there, we can and will forward as a people as soon as we learn to work with each other, I&I said in complete confidence as I&I know the brain power is there as a blesseing from Jah( to whom I&I give thanks as a show of humility still).   My love of justice and my people compels me to speak my mind and to try to work with  ANYONE who want to work to better our people.

I&I have been at this a very very long time believe you me, and I&I have ascertained that the Rasta movement is our best shot so far as a people in theory.  But if we dont get it going then we too can fall by the wasteside.  

please dont let the ego thing kill us as it did the nation of islam. whom I&I believe were also guided to free us.  People with in the nation were jelous of Minister Malcom. and that was disruptive. hindsite being what it is lets me to learn from the mistakes of our past and hopefully we can make different ones in the future and not the same old same old okey doke.

Ok  now that I&I have some of yall attentions, we must together figure out a way to empower ourselves as a community. (here is where I&I would love some feed back, is this just my goal or is it the   goal of the group here).  I&I feel that we can if we set our minds to it,  the blueprint has been laid by "greater minds than mines" along time ago, it really should be taking this long right?  (agian sorry about my high expectations I&I am used to winning as I&I used to play alot of sports competively, I&I relize not all want it as bad as I&I do and my winning drive might be the conduct that yall is refuring to).

sorry guys I&I see a good squad here of some find minds and carictors, why we are the wretched of the earth I&I just dont know. I&I feel that if we can get from a bunch of talented indiviuals to becoming a team or collective or even a commuity we can aspire to great highs as a testiment to Jah's blessing. I&I wont lie it hurts my black ego and pride to know that we are the original man out of Jah's mind, (for when he made man he made us, we are better than this) we are being dominated by others we used to teach as babes in togas. It hurts my pride man, it do. we was kings and queens,  now you dont want to know the reality I&I would show you we are for you would talk of my conduct to being too real man. we have Little time to waste man our own  people are dying man.
sorry I&I am Iman just cant accept that.

this form was about democracy, well the word democracy means ruled by the people, from the greek work demos meaning people right, ok so we have to rule as people inorder  to make it work. we cant sit back an be lazy and let the plutocracy usurp the rights and therefore lively hood of the people. I&I know that saying this pro democracy stuff is the kind of thing that got people killed in tenniman square, kent state, or mississippi in civil rights. But Jah will guide me I&I hope not to end before our job is done to truely free our people. I&I would work my life for us man and I&I hope to find people with the same level of commitment, to show the world that we are serious about forward and will not be turned back easy.  we are still on stage one of getting the team to gel.
we need to start to work on stratagies if we want to have a chance at real demoracy.  hail the rasta movement, we will not be no tokens.  

freedom is a must, I&I have heart yea. and I&I know you must the same. please get at me with individual point as that are easier to address and forward issues dem.


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