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25895 Posts in 9961 Topics by 982 Members Latest Member: - Ferguson Most online today: 121 (July 03, 2005, 06:25:30 PM)
+  Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum
|-+  SCIENCE, SOCIOLOGY, RELIGION
| |-+  Mainstream Religion (Moderator: Tyehimba)
| | |-+  Love or Hate what do we do?
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Author Topic: Love or Hate what do we do?  (Read 24329 times)
hailiniemperor
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« on: January 22, 2004, 04:44:16 PM »

Greetings bredrin and sistren of His Majesty. I have a question to propose because I need some reasoning on this subject. I have been reading the Bible, and I find the contradictions of the Old and New testaments to be confusing. In the Old Testament it says "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the council of the ungodly" and when the righteous showed love to the wicked they were punished, like in the case of Jehosaphet (Chronicles 2). The Psalms say blessed is the man in whose eyes the righteous are loved and the wicked despised. Now, in the New testament Jesus says to have love for not only the righteous but the wicked as well, and to love thy enemies. But I know that in I heart I have no love for a wicked man who pleasures himself off others by sucking off there vibes like a leech, just like most people we come into contact on a daily basis. Because u know the slaves of this country did not become free by sitting back and loving there slave masters. They were able to set the stage for freedom by the acts of those like Nat Turner and Frederick Douglass who faught back with bitter hatred. Another problem I have with the New Testament is that the names go from Moses, Azah, Helkiah, Amos, to names like Peter, John, Paul, and Mark. Now Im not positive but I believe that those names in the New Testament are white or european names. I have also heard that the catholic church wrote the New Testament. Well someone please reason with me on this subject. Thank U Blessings Eternal!
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iyah360
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Higher Reasoning


« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2004, 01:03:06 PM »


Using Biblical allegory:
"When Lucifer challenged God's power in Heaven and marshalled his forces on the plains of Paradise, the God we worship and adore also marshalled His forces... And when anyone transgresses His power He goes to war in defence of His rights." - Marcus Garvey


"We sick an' tired of - a your ism - skism game -
Dyin' 'n' goin' to heaven in - a Jesus' name, Lord.
We know when we understand:
Almighty God is a living man.
You can fool some people sometimes,
But you can't fool all the people all the time.
So now we see the light
We gonna stand up for our rights!"

- Wailers, Get Up Stand Up

"That until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned: That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes; That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race; That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained; And until the ignoble and unhappy regimes that hold our brothers in Angola, in Mozambique and in South Africa in subhuman bondage have been toppled and destroyed; Until bigotry and prejudice and malicious and inhuman self-interest have been replaced by understanding and tolerance and good-will; Until all Africans stand and speak as free beings, equal in the eyes of all men, as they are in the eyes of Heaven; Until that day, the African continent will not know peace. We Africans will fight, if necessary, and we know that we shall win, as we are confident in the victory of good over evil."

- Haile Selassie I
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hailiniemperor
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2004, 12:38:11 AM »

blessings Iyah! u come wit the FYA bredrin yes I ! I loved the quote by Marcus Garvey. Would you or anyone else like to shed some light on the aspect of the biblical contradiction, do u perhaps believe Jesus's teachings could have been distorted at all because "turn the other cheek" sounds like something someone would implant into the mind of someone they want to control (like the catholic church). U check what Im saying? Graces!
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iyah360
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2004, 09:30:30 AM »

I posted the quotes to show that even using biblical allegory, the lyrics of Bob and Peter, and the speech by Haile Selassie . . . an argument can be made for standing up in self-defense. I am not saying this is the be all, end all . . . but I am using symbols that you are familiar with and employ to make my point.

You should realize, like ANY doctrine, law, etc. . . . the turn the other cheek philosophy can be used as a TOOL and JUSTIFICATION for oppression. It can also be used for GOOD, if employed properly at the CORRECT time. Self-knowledge is a key to overstanding . . . when one has cultivated the inner I, the answer to the CORRECT TIME for the APPLICATION of knowledge becomes more apparent. INWARDLY is how I and I approach the Most High . . . it is at this point that the outward forms(symbols, doctrines, laws) become overstood and employed PROPERLY.

I hope this helped.
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hailiniemperor
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2004, 05:29:07 PM »

thank u Iyah. I totally understand what ur saying about the word and the thought process. U know but I am having trouble with the idea that the turn the other cheek philosophy can be useful. U know cuz I believe in not harming anyone in anyway, but I know that I cant let no man try to take my dignity in no matter what form he tries. It is not a matter of pride, because I am a humble person, but many times in my life in my most youthful years I turned the other cheek and until I stopped turning my cheek and I stood up for myself, that is when those vibes knew not to come there anymore, u check? So I not gonna bow for nothing because them vibes will try to suck off u if your not careful, u gotta protect the temple u know.  But I realize Im still young and my path on Rastafari has been relatively short. And Im still trying to get into the House of Rasta. I mean its like I got my foot in the door man but u know Im trying as hard as I can to get all the way in u know. So Im still trying to connect with the inner I and reach that state where the spiritual self and the physical self are ONE. So if U or anyone has any advice for a youthful Lion well then serve me up. Cuz I aint got no elders that I have been able to contact so right now this babylonian computer is the only medium of reasoning right now and Im really working hard and taking a concious road to overstanding. You know but people wanna talk about how JAH love everyone. Man but I feel like if Jah loves everybody then why will he slay the wicked. Its like that Garvey Quote when Satan stood up against the Lord u know the Lord stood up too. Jah didnt turn no cheek when the Lowtalians and there Roman false precepts invaded Ethiopia. So the way I see it is that I aint lettin no bad vibes around me, Im gonna shew them away. And speakin of the bible I mean it completely contradicts itself. I mean I believe in Jesus man but I dont think he would say Love that vampire thats gonna suck your blood the first chance he gets. Reason with me. Big up.
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iyah360
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2004, 10:02:28 AM »

hailiniemperor,

"everything in life has its purpose, find its reason, in every season" a hammer can be used to build shelter or kill a man. the hammer is a tool, what determines the force as a positive or negative is the heart of the man who wields the tool. this allegory should show the difference between ethics and dogma . . . thinking and not thinking . . . conscious evolution and unconscious subservience. dogma would state that the hammer is either good OR evil, so defined by how best it would serve the powers that be. ethics would leave room for the REALITY of the situation, that the TOOL is neither good NOR evil, but can be employed in either way.


check the articles here.
http://www.rastaspeaks.com/Rasta/

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raggamuffin
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2004, 10:58:39 AM »

Iyah...
respect for your contribution, but I can sense the frustration of hailiniemperor in not getting the answer he is looking for.
Unfortunately, I can not supply these answers either, but I can pass down reasoning that was explained to me as a youth.
In comparing the New and Old Testaments God seems to change in personality. The Old Testament God is an angry, vengeful God, full of wrath and fire for the wicked that would scorn his name. The New Testament God is the kinder, gentler, more understanding force that says turn the other cheek.
This is something that never made sense to me either, because there is but one Jah and one who is omnipotent would not change.
My personal belief is that the Old and New Testaments have been tainted over the years with cultural rules and tradition. I do not believe Jah would say only eat a certain type of food, or wear a certain style of clothes. I also do not believe that Jah would say that a women would be unclean for a period of time following her natural menstrual cycle. Does it make sense that Jah would empower women to harbor life but declare them unfit for human interaction for a period of time each month? This is why I read the Old Testament like a parable.
I do not believe that the earth was created in seven 24-hour days. I also do not believe there were originally only two humans. I believe Jah created everything around us and we attempted to put this process into human terms through parables like the Genesis story.
I feel it is very ignorant to discount evolution theory and the big bang as sacriligious or against God's word, simply because it doesn't fit to our literal human translation of Genesis.
If Genesis was inspired by God, and this is a big if, then how do we know that man, being fallable, would have been able to comprehend the awesome forces of Jah?
I think this goes for much of the bible. I don't know how much is real and how much is interjections by religious figures attempting to enforce their own idea of morality through divine mandate. So it is best to step back and look at the big picture and see what can be learned without dwelling on the details.
The teachings of Yeshuah are, in my opinion, probably the most historically reliable text in the bible. And you will notice that Yeshuah often chooses to teach by using parables, which would be consistent with the word of the Old Testament. He doesn't delve into specific mandates by Jah, but offers general advice that can be better for solving everyday problems.
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iyah360
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2004, 11:29:16 AM »

I did indeed give Haileiniemperor an answer, yet that answer may not be within the confines of the question which he asked.

ANYTHING can be USED and ABUSED depending on the INTENT of the person, group, government, organization, religion, etc. using it.

My point is that words, scripture, are TOOLS and the TRUTH is found within I and I moving PROPERLY in INTERPRETING these OUTWARD FORMS. (EVERYTHING IN LIFE HAS IT'S PURPOSE, FIND ITS REASON, IN EVERY SEASON).

One goes to Law School to learn legal codes . .. when one KNOWS these legal codes, one can FORMULATE a CASE in court based on INTERPRETATION of these legal codes. Reality is an ever moving phenomena, it is not stuck, everything has a context. A hammer in good graces is tool for building shelter, a hammer in bad graces is a tool to kill a man. Many tend to think that the REALITY can be grasped by SIMPLY looking at a document and seeing the truth therein, while UNCONSCIOUSLY are ignoring the fact that their INNER FACULTY is indeed INTERPRETING what they see into a SUBJECTIVE context.

The power of any authority is the ability to ENFORCE a SPECIFIC INTERPRETATION of something onto the people. One should be able to see now HOW turn the other cheek can be used to abuse the poor into submission . .. yet in a different PERSONAL, INNER context, turn the other cheek CAN BE a USEFUL and POSITIVE action.
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hailiniemperor
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2004, 11:53:58 PM »

I would like to thank those that have posted there knowledge and wisdom.  My basis for this whole topic is summed up best in an Anthony B "Fire Bun di Wicked". I believe the wicked do, will and must burn. I also believe that we must burn them not in the physical but in the spirtual sense, with the philosophy of Word, Sound, and Power. Words live forever, weapons decay. I also feel that hating a wicked person and burning them with words, can also in a sense be loving them. It may urge them to take an inner look at who they were and ultimately set them on the path of righteousness. I have not always been a righteous person and if there were people there to burn me when I was acting wicked, then my path would have been accelerated much earlier. If u saw a bum on the street it seems like the loving thing to do to give that man some money, but that man may go use that money to further his dismay, yet instead of giving that man money but yelling at him and telling him what a disgrace he is to himself may just inspire him to get fed up with being a bum and move on to a higher livity.
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iyah360
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2004, 02:54:15 PM »

So you see the point . . . things are not static and fixed, the context determines whether an action is positive or negative.

As Capleton says "fire is for the purification." Fire can also be negatively destructive if utilized improperly. Know thyself and then the question of WHEN to utilize TOOLS is clear.

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Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2004, 02:35:20 PM »

I'm no Christian but....

The deciples carried swords, this is Biblical fact...

nuff said.
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Forward to a united Africa!
hailiniemperor
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2004, 11:23:09 PM »

Oshu, what exactly are u trying to delineate when u say that the disciples carried swords?
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sisMenenI
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physical distance cannot be a barrier to love.


« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2004, 08:58:30 PM »

This is a very interesting topic... I was just reasoning with a bredren on Hate... as a next bredren asked me how one could "Hate with Perfect hatred"... I thought of my hate for babylon, and how it is perfect hatred. That's when my bredren showed me how perfect hatred is truly love. Just as InI use FIRE for the purification. If one is willing to put that much time and emotion into something then there must be love present.
As His Majesty teaches InI Rastafari: "... do not reward evil for evil, do not commit any act of cruelty like those which the enemy committed against us. Do not allow the enemy any occasion to foul the good name. We shall take his weapons and make him return by the way he came..."

His Majesty points to the principles of Christ. It's not necessarily the weakness of turning the other cheek, it's the strength in that action that proves something like "your blows cannot touch me". An example of this is the parable Yahushua uses in Mark ch.12. When truly seeking the Ideal I there is humility and overstanding that makes evil wash away with self scrutiny. As one elder taught me in the past, the word is one and the same no matter the language. Most importantly.. LOVE the Most High... and Love your bredren and sistren in the Human community.
Blessed Love and guidance on your Journey
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Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is a simple way of life, pure and original as was given by the most high. Spirituality is a network linking us to the most high, the universe and eachother
hailiniemperor
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2004, 11:47:08 PM »

Sismenen, continual love to u sistrin. What u said about turnin the other cheek, I really checked with it. Its kinda like "standing unburned in the oven". I dig that. That doesnt mean Im not going to protect myself. Cuz when Mussocomelynchthee invaded on the KING, u best believe Selassie I sent em home crying, or shall I say hissing, like the lowtalian bastards in the conference during HIS Majesty's speech in Geneva. Yes I Praise JAH.

Its kinda funny that u mentioned that perfect hatred is actually love. My bredrin and I were reasoning about this on Saturday night. When I was a youngster I did some messed up stuff. But had someone been there to show me some "perfect hatred" I probably would have turned around a lot earlier than I did. Hating someone in many instances can actually be loving them. If InI hate the wicked man enough, maybe he will realize the Love of the Righteous path. I will forgive a wicked man only when he TRULY asks for it. Good reasoning. Big up.
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Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2004, 04:18:24 PM »

hailiniemperor,

It is Oshun(yoruba orisa)...just wanted to let you know.

There is a time for every emotion...I agree with iyah 360 when he said...

"the context determines whether an action is positive or negative."

and obviousely so did the deciples. Why would they carry swords unless they needed them? Love is not always the answer, sometimes we must fight the enemy.
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