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25895 Posts in 9961 Topics by 982 Members Latest Member: - Ferguson Most online today: 121 (July 03, 2005, 06:25:30 PM)
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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2004, 11:16:44 AM »

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Plus, just like Rasta took on the Christian iconography but remained true to nature,..

Rastas remained true to Nature? You must be kidding. Give me the name of the Earth Goddess they worship? What are the Cosmic Spirits or Nature Forces they honor? What about the ancestors spirits worship? It's typical for Rastafarians to reject reverence to Nature Divinities to the point of betrayal  the true indigenous belief and practice of the first human beings (God-men) of this planet. Of course, everyone should practice the religion they please, but if Blacks with African ancestry seek to gain African knowledge that stretches back to our remote ancestry. Then, they should revere the faith (IMHO perfect) of our ancestors' source.  

Bantu Kelani.
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Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2004, 11:29:30 AM »

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Rastas remained true to Nature? You must be kidding. Give me the name of the Earth Goddess they worship? What are the Cosmic Spirits or Nature Forces they honor? What about the ancestors spirits worship? It's typical for Rastafarians to reject reverence to Nature Divinities to the point of betrayal  the true indigenous belief and practice of the first human beings (God-men) of this planet. Of course, everyone should practice the religion they please, but if Blacks with African ancestry seek to gain African knowledge that stretches back to our remote ancestry. Then, they should revere the faith (IMHO perfect) of our ancestors' source.  

Bantu Kelani.


I didn't mean in spiritual reverence of nature, but in lifestyle, they live naturally. You know we agree that the spiritual practices of the ancestors are primary and should be continued, and that the feminine aspect is neglected....But Rastas live without harming nature/ the environment...Although I understand that spirituality and lifestyle are inseperable, and therfore neglecting the goddess and the ancestors is NOT ok...I hope that clears up what I meant...
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iyah360
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« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2004, 11:42:31 AM »

Most RASTAS I have known from the Carribean have a respect for nature, deal with gathering herbs for healing ailments, deal with animals as equals(speak with them too), revere the natural elements and are profound in their philosophical arguments.

Quote
Give me the name of the Earth Goddess they worship? What are the Cosmic Spirits or Nature Forces they honor? What about the ancestors spirits worship? It's typical for Rastafarians to reject reverence to Nature Divinities to the point of betrayal


Maybe they don't deal necessarily with names and labels for the elements, nature spirits, etc . ..  but how is this proof of a lack of reverence and regard? I understand your disagreement about the male orientation of Rastafari because I know that this is present.
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sisMenenI
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physical distance cannot be a barrier to love.


« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2004, 12:05:14 PM »

RastafarI are NATURAL people, going back to the roots of creation... the Earth Goddess, the Cosmic spirit is ONE and that is JAH. You may sight that as "betrayal" to true indigenous beliefs, who feels it knows it. It's a natural mystic, RastafarI is not Christianity, although it is often labeled in anthropological terms as a "revitalization movement" out of forced Christianity but a serious teaching from the roots is THE ONLY CONSTANT IS CHANGE. So things like religion can be reasoned on forever but to truly have a say about Rastafari one has to truly experience the essence by feeling it. Rastafari know who the "Holy Ghost" is... Rastafari must nutrure the divine feminine as the Essenes of the Ancient of Days...  If you really check the words of HIM Haile Selassie in whom RASTAFARI got its name, you can sight a much deeper truth than the colonizer's Christianity:
"The temple of the most high begins with the human body, which houses our life, essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through Religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans which were supposed to help people grow spiritually.

Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe and each other. As the essence of our existence it embodies our culture, true identity, nationhood and destiny. A people without a nation they can really call their own is a people without a soul. Africa is our nation and is in spiritual and physical bondage because her leaders are turning to outside forces for solutions to African problems when everything Africa needs is within her. When African righteous people come together, the world will come together. This is our divine destiny."
Christianity's roots are in East Africa.  KMT is where the roots are.. but now with that said, ones must look at the teachings rather than the philosophical aspects because the intention of religion in general is to lead people to a higher overstanding of life and live righteously with love. JAH is Love.
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Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is a simple way of life, pure and original as was given by the most high. Spirituality is a network linking us to the most high, the universe and eachother
Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2004, 02:27:30 PM »

Regardless of what you say SisMenenI there is nothing indigenous in Rastafari, Kimbanguism, NOI and the likes. If there is no worship of the female principal, then there is no original expression of our traditional African (world) religion period. If you knew anything about traditional Africa you would know spirituality is intrinsic with religion in traditional African viewpoint. Go see with your own eyes how tribal and Earth Goddess honoring people live and breath a more powerful religion. In traditional societies there is amalgamation of informal spirituality and institutionzed religious activity. The Earth Goddess is revered and honored through many rituals and ceremonies as well as the Cosmic Spirits and the Ancestors by shaman priests and priestesses as well as by states Chiefs. The supernatural spirits are all of the essence of the Supreme Spirit indeed but a rejection of the sacred ritualistic reverences to every one of of them is unnatural and unhealthy. It's destructive because when we don't integrate into our lives a systematic relationship with every one of them, we loose balance and allow our moral principle to be venerable to selfishness and damages form the dangers of this world. You don't even deny Rastafari is fundamentally masculine, thus is fundamentally an unbalanced movement, the situation is however different with the ancestral African tradition. Our original tradition is in honor of each and every one of the supernatural spirits: the Supreme Being, the Earth Goddess, the Cosmic Spirits and the Ancestral Spirits.

The Creator Source comes in all these manifestations indeed. They all give us health and prosperity. Therefore again, a lifestyle or spirituality that neglects the veneration of all these principles lacks the complete reverence of the Supreme Creator itself. Their invocation and worship is obligatory for they are all sacred and represent cosmic interrelatedness and harmony. A rejection of reverence of each and every one of them lead the consciousness to imbalance, moral degradation that resulted to the modern power-ego-competition cul de sac era instigated by the Judaic tradition 3000 years ago. When we keep rituals involvement with ALL the supernatural Forces, we keep more a sense of BALANCE that also sustain these Spirits benevolance. If you want to argue this point, be my guest.

Bantu Kelani.
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iyah360
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« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2004, 03:02:54 PM »

I see your point BK. The bible does neglect the feminine aspect almost entirely. One has to be a good student of mythology to see the presence of the feminine principal in many of the stories(which are themselves remnents of Babylonian, Egyptian, Chaldean, etc. traditions)

I wonder sometimes about the homophobia of Christianity as being more of a reflection of their promoting homosexuality for almost 2000 years in a doctrine which excludes and/or downplays the feminine principle.

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Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2004, 03:29:07 PM »

Quote
I wonder sometimes about the homophobia of Christianity as being more of a reflection of their promoting homosexuality for almost 2000 years in a doctrine which excludes and/or downplays the feminine principle.



I think that the imbalance caused by the lack of reverance for the feminine principle manifests itself in the physical realm via homosexuality(as well as many other things). If there are all men in heaven, there shall be all men on earth....as above, so below...Our ancestors knew what they were doing by reflecting nature in spirituality and vis a vis. If there is a God there must be a Goddess. Duality is primary for balance.

The homophobia in Christianity is a result of the subconscious mind knowing that suppressing the feminine power will result in imbalance, but the ego won't allow one to admit it on a conscious level.
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Saddhu_Yogi
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2004, 03:45:44 PM »

OHM.it shouldnt be so hard for ones to see a Balance of opposites in everything,for it is a Law of life itself.since ones call themselves Rasta,dont ones know that the earth is a living female?for she is the one who nurtures us physically and ANYONE who wants to come in the physical realm MUST ask her for the skin.i think the problem is that ones who have incorporated this Incient way of Rasta with mainstream religion that professes that god is a man,LoL,yes the Omnipotent one is a man but he wouldnt be anything without the woman.OHHHMM

Shri Krishna Maharaj
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sisMenenI
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2004, 04:16:55 PM »

It's all about perspective:

In the beginning JAH created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of JAH moved upon the face of the waters...

In these first words in Genesis of the Bible is the WOMB of creation. Darkness.. water... the spirit of JAH dwelled there. Hail the divine feminine in all manifestations of life as there is always balance and each man came from a WOMBMAN... science can prove that... and if you truly check the name ELOHEIM it is both male and female. So Rastafari in this time must come forward to nurture the divine feminine mother of creation to restore the balance. .. it's all about perspective. RastafarI is NATURAL people
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Kebo
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« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2004, 04:40:51 PM »


I keep hearing talk about the feminine principle. But if you look around alot of males are broken down, their masculinity is breaking down and many men have already become feminized.
I say there is a greater call for men to realize their manhood. Respect for women is part of this process but a man's first objective should be to build up his masculinity.

Its a mistake to mislead men to get in touch with their feminine side before their masculine side. When men/rastas/kings are secure in their manhood and hard like rock then men should concern themselves with understanding the feminine principle. This is along the lines of Dr. Cress Welsing's insight that the supremacy system's biggest threat is the Black male. And its first goal is the breakdown of the race's manhood, to break down family structures and weaken the race altogether which depends on the strength of the man.

Kebo
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Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2004, 05:41:06 PM »

Quote

I keep hearing talk about the feminine principle. But if you look around alot of males are broken down, their masculinity is breaking down and many men have already become feminized.
I say there is a greater call for men to realize their manhood. Respect for women is part of this process but a man's first objective should be to build up his masculinity.

Its a mistake to mislead men to get in touch with their feminine side before their masculine side. When men/rastas/kings are secure in their manhood and hard like rock then men should concern themselves with understanding the feminine principle. This is along the lines of Dr. Cress Welsing's insight that the supremacy system's biggest threat is the Black male. And its first goal is the breakdown of the race's manhood, to break down family structures and weaken the race altogether which depends on the strength of the man.

Kebo


Since you brought it up...The Isis Papers should also be complimented by the book "Afrikan Mother
Principle of Male and Female Equality" - By Oba T'shaka.  Dr. Cress Welsing hit it on the nose about symbolic language, and also why the female role in Western thought must be downplayed because of the concept of "origional sin"... the act that made one come into life is a sin pecause of lack of melanin(this is her theory for the western spirituality downgrading the feminine).....But we are talking about African spirituality that does not look at the creation of life from an 'origional sin' perspective...and therefore has no problem with revearing the feminine...Oba T'Shaka states  the femanization of men comes FROM the lack of the feminine concept in Western spirituality of which we have adopted in mass(anyone who uses the Bible as a main reference point is doing this whether it is intentional or not...It isn't "OUR" version of things).

..My refference to homosexuality being prevalent in the West is a perfect example of this....The fact that Christianity all but leaves out the woman, and has the highest amount of homosexuality of any religion, outside of the Greko-Roman erra...should be a big clue of how not having a balanced example spiritually(the father, the Son, and the Holy spirit)....Which is the Hellenized/Greek version of the origional KMTic Holy Trinity(Father, Mother,and Child)...and we all know what the Greeks did for initiation into manhood! What kind of symbolic message is that sending to Africans and humanity in general if we are supposed to live "as above, so below"?

We aren't saying some left wing liberal "get into your feminine side" thing....The FAMILY structure in heaven guides the FAMILY structure on earth...If it is all male...isn't homosexuality therefore just an acting out of the symbols men are fed all their life? (There's that symbolic language the Isis papers always refers to) A God should have a Goddess, to reproduce a God... A man should have a women, to reproduce a child. Not a "father"/older man, and a "son"/younger man, with an invisible spirit(although I realize Mary is the downplayed Isis in this story, she still was removed from the Trinity because of the "origional sin" concept).

In closing, being a "man" isn't being with a "man" which is the symbolism one recieves from Christianity and Western culture in general. You shouldn't confuse African traditional spiritualitie's reverence for the feminine as an attempt to "femenize" men...It actually works in the opposite direction, and our ancestors are proof of that. I don't recall us having the social problem of the femenization of men when we were practicing our own indigenous spiritual systems...Do you? So how could returning to our roots create such a problem? Dr Welsing analyzed European/Western thought and spirituality...not Afrcian traditional thought and spirituality...They deserve there own seperate evaluations...The same rules do not apply to an "out of balance" theology(Christianity) as to one that has balance(African traditional practices)...and the social results quite obviously support that.
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Bantu_Kelani
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« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2004, 06:31:52 AM »

Kebo,
Be aware your chauvinism outlook is what led the outrage and destruction of the old Earth-honoring civilizations and current environmental degradation. It is manifest you are ignorant of the depth of the traditional African thought. The original African worldview sees human LIFE directly with the Supreme Spirit through women! Women are the Goddesses of FERTILITY having the power of life as the Earth Goddess herself from which everything originated on this planet. Thus, women are the center of our lives! Tell me frankly, would you would rather focus on authoritarianism, power, ego and competition patriarchy than on the feminine concepts of balance, harmony and humanism?? Remember how from the depth of antiquity the matriarchal cultures created the values of JUSTICE and PARTNERSHIP, while patriarchy societies created those of dominance, sex inequality, warfare, consumerist and exploitation. Honoring the divine feminine principle is healthy and wise because only the veneration of the divine feminine principle along with the sacred masculine, principles will rebalance our world today that continues to diminish our interrelatedness and true spiritual powers.

Oshun_Auset, very enlightening posts, thanks.

Iyah360, you always feel me, PEACE.

Bantu Kelani.


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We should first show solidarity with each other. We are Africans. We are black. Our first priority is ourselves.
iyah360
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« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2004, 09:55:08 AM »

"Lioness, when she be strong the whole INIverse rest, when she be storm she literalize the tempest, she's a lioness yes yes . . . "

- Midnite "Lioness"
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preach
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« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2004, 09:00:04 PM »

.Thanks to all who responded to my initial post and thanks to all who helped it progress to other ideas that all correlate. Everything points back to the original. The last responses pointed back to the original. The original being woman, which is not only a title, but an ideal, a perfected system and the only means by which to experience freedom. Everything is borne of something children, ideas, etc. The entity that gave birth is feminine and is worthy of being praised, reflected upon, and embraced. My question now is why is it that women must take the back role in so called progressive religion?  Isn't this destructive behaviour?
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Oshun_Auset
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« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2004, 10:45:56 PM »

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. My question now is why is it that women must take the back role in so called progressive religion?  Isn't this destructive behaviour?


Any religion, or any other social institution where women must take a back role is the antithesis of "progressive" and therfore is automatically destructive because of it's inherent regressive nature/design....
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