Why Whites Think Blacks Have No Problems

[out_of_Zion]

Noah,

while I agree 100% with your solution and what you are saying - I cannot in my wildest dreams imagine it occuring and for the very reason you provided.  To believe that the upper class whites would relinguish their privledge is a naive hope; they lord their wealth over blacks and whites alike and believe themselves superior in all respects (see the comments I made in my first post about the 12% of law students that claimed to have black friends).

But the problem is not isolated towards only blacks.  The Native American tribes have had their land stolen and been given little plots properly titled "reservations" because that's all they are - little reserves to represent a land that was once entirely populated by these people.  

A global form of socialism would be the solution to all of this, but I don't believe that it is within man's ability to achieve this.  There is far too much avarice & greed.

[Oshun_Auset]

Out of Zion, You said....

Yes - but notice a distinct difference in the handling of the two matters.  To call an injustice wrong is to call a spade a spade; we're merely reporting the news accurately since the media and history books refuse to do so.  To take a stance on a political action, i.e. reparations, is to involve ourselves in worldly affairs where we told to have no role.  There's a fine line between the two, though, so your question is very valid and important.  I personally can hold the opinion that abortion is wrong, but that doesn't mean I should go out and picket it or even do obnoxious acts like take the lives of abortion doctors.  Rather, I'm told by JAH, "vengeance is mine, and retribution."  (Duet 32:35)  We have the utmost confidence that final solution to these injustices, reparation included, will be Jehovah's kingdom...

This is a major contradiction. Are you saying the slaves who had to fight against their oppressed condition were violating Yeshua's teaching by "being of the world? What about Yeshua himself turning over the tables in the temples? What about his battle against Imperial Rome? Wasn't that the main reason he was crucified? What about the Abolitionist Christians during slavery, were they "being of the world" for fighting against injustice? What about the civil rights movement? Don't tell me if Martin Luther King was a Jehova's witness they would  have taught him to "not get involved"? If we all just laid down and waited for the "kingdom of God"...wouldn't evil take over? Wear would African people be right now...Still colonized and enslaved waiting for God's return? Isn't non-action actually "letting" evil win? It sounds like "kingdom hall" might be a retreat from reality into illusion...I'm not trying to be flippant but this statement of yours really disturbs me for obvious reasons... I tend to agree with the following quote when people are afraid to take a moral stance and act upon it, and subsuquebtly use their religion as an excuse...

Religion is what keeps the poor from killing the rich. -Napolean

Don't let him be correct...Remember if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

By the way the anglo-cising of your parents isn't really a valid reason not to get into your Cherokee spirituality and heritage. My parents were both Christian, I practice Ifa from the Yoruba people...I researched my background...anyone can do that. How long have Africans been trapped in the West with very few cultural/religious ties to Africa taught to them? You don't have to have it passed down to you...You can go seek out your roots on your own....How do you think the plethora of information even exists on thiis board? We can't just go with what is spoon fed to us, especially by our oppressor, But you only can do that if you are willing...  

[Oshun_Auset]

The majority of whites today are not willing to provide the OPPOSITE FORCE to offset the effects of white racism, which thus preserves the effects of white racism, which is akin to being racist. Most whites are opponents to forces that are opposite because those forces threaten white privilege. Whites can and do rationalize that it is unacceptable for whites to be burdened with discrimination against them to offset past and present discrimination against blacks. Yet, they can and do accept that blacks can live with the burden of white racism, without any offset. That rationalization, in and off itself, is evidence of racism because it places a premium on the value of white lives over blacks. Whites should not be burdened unfairly, but it is ok for blacks to be burdened unfairly. How about an equality of unfairness and burden, if not an equality of fairness?

From your keyboard to Olorun's/God's ears!!!

[out_of_Zion]

This is a major contradiction. Are you saying the slaves who had to fight against their oppressed condition were violating Yeshua's teaching by "being of the world? What about Yeshua himself turning over the tables in the temples? What about his battle against Imperial Rome? Wasn't that the main reason he was crucified? What about the Abolitionist Christians during slavery, were they "being of the world" for fighting against injustice? What about the civil rights movement? Don't tell me if Martin Luther King was a Jehova's witness they would  have taught him to "not get involved"? If we all just laid down and waited for the "kingdom of God"...wouldn't evil take over? Wear would African people be right now...Still colonized and enslaved waiting for God's return? Isn't non-action actually "letting" evil win? It sounds like "kingdom hall" might be a retreat from reality into illusion...I'm not trying to be flippant but this statement of yours really disturbs me for obvious reasons... I tend to agree with the following quote when people are afraid to take a moral stance and act upon it, and subsuquebtly use their religion as an excuse...

Martin Luther King couldn't have been a witness, not for that reason, but because he would have been disfellowshipped for his undying love of fornication.  He may have loved to teach about brotherhood, unity, and respect, but he continued that loving with all kinds of women right into the bedroom.  

You are right though about that.  Dante said something similar, "All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing."  You referred to Yeshua overturning the temple tables - but he was fighting religious hypocrisy.  Similarly, we've overturned the tables of Christendom many times figuratively and received similar hate, but the statement that Yeshua made about "being no part of the world" refers to political involvements.  

As to how slavery would have been abolished without involvement, without war: I don't know.  This world is so damn wicked I sometimes can't even begin to rationalize and tred through these things because they don't make any sense to me.  I honestly find it hard to believe that some things I read about actually happened, slavery, the holocaust, even the two world wars.  And yet I've now lived through a few things, the Gulf War, 911, etc.  It's all just more proof that "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" (1 Jn 5:19).  

I don't know where to draw the line between becoming obsessive about reforming a wicked system that exists and being patient and "showing a waiting attitude for the God of [our] salvation" (Micah 7:7, partial).  I really don't.  This is a topic I've brought up many times actually, and never once received an answer that made a damn bit of sense.
--
As to why I haven't really engaged in Cherokee rituals, I guess I feel my spiritual need is satiated.  Does that make sense to you?  I guess I just don't feel as though I am particularly detached from anything because I've never known it to begin with.  On an unrelated note, it's hard enough to fit in as much time as I do for scripture reading and spirituality because this world tries to choke it out of us, day by day, by this entire system...

I have more thoughts, but no more words.  I'm frusterated.  I try my hardest to make sense of things and to obtain answers and sometimes I feel all I meet is more confusion.

[Oshun_Auset]

I was frustrated when I wasn't "doing" anything also...When I was younger(teenager) I used to be a couch revolutionary.   But since I became an activist I feel much more optimistic becuase I see the PEOPLE'S victories every day.

Putting MLK's infidelity asside(it seems that was and is used as an excuse or distraction to the true question at hand)...It was THE PEOPLE that created the civil rights movement...not just the catalyst/motivator MLK...The PEOPLE were organized and caused change(although I view the system's structural results like "affirmative action" as a pacification for revolution)....Were the POEPLE who were fighting for their rights being "part of the world"? What was the Jahova's Witness' role (or lack thereof) in the civil rights period?  

Whatever happeneed to the Biblical saying "God helps those who help themselves?

My resistance to this line of thinking is becuase I tend to believe that people who claim to not be "political" are suffering from a lobotamy. To me spirituality, politics, and culture are forever intwined...But that is the traditional African view of things. The European world view seperates the three(or at least usuccessfully attempt to) so that might be where our difference in opinion is derived from.

I see religion/spirituality as something to be lived...a lifestyle...behavior you have when interacting with society...All of society...not just picking and choosing non-controvercial issues...actually I view that as cowardess and retreat. Wouldn't Yeshua dealing with the poor and outcaste's of his society be viewed as a "controvercial political move" by those in power during his time?

And don't think I;m just attacking your faith...I know many Afric-centrists who do the same thing...They think they can "meditate" a better world...I find this is often used as a form of retreat, and an excuse so they don't actually have to "DO" somethng...Buddist too....They forget Buddah reached enlightenment and then spect the rest of his life fighting for the poor and oppressed. If we don't make this world a better place who will? Oh, I forgot...you think God will come back to do it...

My people are suffering now...I don't have the luxury of sitting back and waiting for something to happen or God to come back...that isn't patience...that is social castration...Life is more valuable than that...Actually anyone who claims to love humanity shouldn't feel as though they have that luxury.

Sounds like Napoleon was right.
You might want to re-listen to what Bob Marley'w teachings were...If you think he is correct that is...

[out_of_Zion]

Brother, I have been down so many mental avenues of thought in my short life of 23 years and found all of them dark & bleak.  What I mean by that is I came to the harsh realization years ago that my teenage dreams of making a "big" impact on the world for a positive were naive.  Instead, I succombed to pessimism, which is a large part why I became what some what refer to as a religious fanatic.  I see so little being done it depresses the living hell out of me.  And then I did try to make a push on a small scale to help people I knew that were having problems and all the people, "friends," I contacted were too self concerned even to do that.  All in all, I don't think man is capable of solving his own problems and if Jehovah, THE CREATOR of this global civilization gone awry, does NOT step in, I feel fairly certain mankind will drive himself and most of the other larger species extinct within a couple hundred years.  I'm not going to go deeply into Bible prophecy, but we have good reason to believe that the great day of Jehovah is near.  How near, no one knows.  Whether it will come even in my lifetime - still cannot say with certainty.  But I feel like mankind is eons away from ever acheiving anything and if anything we are going to go into another dark age.  SERIOUSLY.  

As for the MLK thing - I feel Malcolm X made much more of an impact.  I also have a much greater respect for Malcolm, even though he was quite racist at first (who the hell wouldn't be with what happened to his father, things said to him as a youth, and the treatment of his mother's mental illness), because of his high moral standards that he and the entire Nation of Islam lived up to.  Not just that, of course, but he WOKE UP the sleeping masses not only to the fact that they were opressed by whites, but that they were oppressing themselves with substance abuse, gambling, and utter acceptance of a second class citizen's role in society.  It's a shame that when he really obtained a good overstanding spiritually of the desire of all men to worship the True God - JAH or ALLAH - he was shot by his own former brothers.  One can only wonder what he might of accomplished.
To me, Dr. MLK seemed more or less to paint a pretty picture, but really do little more.  Malcolm exposed the gathering that occured in Washington as what it really was, a publicity stunt that made whites feel that they were not so bad afterall, when in fact, the fact is they were just starting to give rise to what has become the norm today: ignoring the problem and pretending it is already fixed, the main complain that is rightly voiced on this board.

I understand what you mean, but I'm almost at a loss, brother.  I'm not certain there's any impact I could even motivate myself to make in a world that is not only decaying morally and socially, but also ecologically.  It truly seems that the prophecies that are poetically revealed in the book of Daniel & Revelation are unraveling and that the hour is near.  If not, I'll die either way.  "To live is Christ, to die is gain," as Paul said.  

You say your people are suffering now.  I know.  A sister from Jamaica in my class today and I were talking about the situation in Haiti.  And then I move on and hear about Iraq on the radio.  There truly is no end.  Not just Afrikans are suffering...almost everyone except the power elite are going to be suffering b/c that is the aim of the "New World Order."  This, again, is another topic that many on this site know a lot of, and I, too, could write more - but the hour has come for me to get some sleep.

Just in closing, in curiousity, what do you do now in terms of activism?   INI remain open.  Pat me on the back as they may at the hall for the preaching work I do, I admit to myself much of it is futile and falls on deaf ears.  You know how spiritually mute this damned country is (USA).

[Bantu_Kelani]

Brother, I have been down so many mental avenues of thought in my short life of 23 years and found all of them dark & bleak.  What I mean by that is I came to the harsh realization years ago that my teenage dreams of making a "big" impact on the world for a positive were naive.  Instead, I succombed to pessimism, which is a large part why I became what some what refer to as a religious fanatic.  I see so little being done it depresses the living hell out of me.

All in all, I don't think man is capable of solving his own problems and if Jehovah, THE CREATOR of this global civilization gone awry, does NOT step in, I feel fairly certain mankind will drive himself and most of the other larger species extinct within a couple hundred years.  I'm not going to go deeply into Bible prophecy, but we have good reason to believe that the great day of Jehovah is near.  How near, no one knows.  Whether it will come even in my lifetime - still cannot say with certainty.  But I feel like mankind is eons away from ever acheiving anything and if anything we are going to go into another dark age.  SERIOUSLY.  

You say your people are suffering now.  I know.  A sister from Jamaica in my class today and I were talking about the situation in Haiti.  And then I move on and hear about Iraq on the radio.  There truly is no end.  

You really believe you cannot make a difference? That is nonsense thinking when you say that because every man or woman in this planet can make a difference! So, join an organization whose position and views corresponds with yours. Get involved in Black communities' activities. Be Conscious of what's going on by reading local, national, and international papers. Respond to the media to express your opinions, let them know that a White American male read their paper agrees or disagrees with statements in their papers. Talk to friends and family about what is going in the world, educate yourself and others about the rich history of the Native American, African and Asian culture that are as relevant as the history of Europe. Come up with solutions no matter how small that can help humanity. Do your grassroots work and then you will see change. If you just give up and let it all be in the hand of the God you pray then you are certainly going to fail. You have to be doing something, anything. Sometimes you have to die for JUSTICE, that is action!

Don't be disappointed or irritated just because the people around you are not changing their old patterns for the highest good of yourself and others. Everyone needs to grown in their own way and in their own time, but YOU train your intellect to follow your rescuer/rebel path. You will gain higher consciousness and you will increasingly attract people who want to relate to you and what you believe to be true. Risk actions and learn in struggles. Only then, you will become a stronger and a more enlightened being. Trust me, the more you educate and empower yourself, the more powerful tool you become to make a significant change in this world.

Bantu Kelani.