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| | |-+  West bullying Africa over gay rights
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AS Reasoning
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« on: April 22, 2010, 04:40:05 PM »

By Sixpence Manyengavana
April 22, 2010


The West is bullying Africans into homosexuality. Many Africans subscribe to the notion that homosexuality did not exist in Africa but is only surfacing openly in the continent because of western encouragement. Africa’s zero tolerance on homosexuality is full-proof that the practice is outlawed in most of the continent’s countries.
 
South Africa became the first nation in the world to explicitly prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation in its constitution and it is the only nation in Africa that gives equal rights to gays. In 1993 the African National Congress (ANC) endorsed legal recognition of same-sex marriages. These provisions were echoed in their new constitution approved in 1996, meaning that gays can marry and adopt children. But not all ANC members, including the South African President Jacob Zuma, support the recognition of gay rights.
 
However, the rest of African countries consider homosexuality as against God’s creation and that it is an evil act performed by sexual perverts – gays. In Malawi gay rights organizations work clandestinely. Recently two gay men were arrested for holding an engagement party in December 2009. They are being charged with unnatural practices and gross indecency after receiving a thorough beating from the general public. The gay couple could face up to 14 years in jail.
 
In Uganda, a lawmaker proposed harsh penalties for homosexuality, including the death penalty in some cases. President Yoweri Museveni came under pressure from the British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, the Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton after an anti-homosexuality bill which stipulates the death penalty for “aggravated homosexuality” was tabled in parliament in Kampala. The US and Sweden, both big donors to Uganda, have threatened to cut off aid after the country expelled the local director of UNAIDS, the United Nations programme on HIV, for organising a meeting with Ugandan gay activists.
 
In Kenya the police recently broke up a gay wedding that saw the arrest of many guests. An irate mob had thronged the venue threatening to kill the participants.
 
Nigeria has not been spared by the western influence that is encouraging homosexuality. In Muslim northern Nigeria the penalty for homosexuality is stoning to death.
 
In Senegal nine Senegalese gay activists were jailed for eight years after coming out in the open following an International Aids conference attended by foreign activists who stressed the need for gays to be dealt with openly.
 
In Mozambique organizations in defense of the rights of the minority gays are being established though gay rights movements are not officially registered. The largest number of gays is found in Maputo. They are not fighting for the legalization of same-sex marriage but for recognition of their rights which the Mozambican society is against.
 
Homosexuality is also illegal in Zambia. The Zambian Minister of Home affairs was quoted as saying that homosexuality is “unAfrican” and according Zambian law it is a felony that carries a minimum prison sentence of 14 years.
 
Zimbabwe has joined other African nations in condemning homosexuality. Now that the country is in the process of writing a new constitution, the issue of homosexuality has been raised with MDC-T advocating for the recognition of homosexuals. President Robert Mugabe was scornful of the idea of gay rights which he said would make Zimbabwe’s ancestors turn in their graves. MDC-T is just rallying behind whatever the West says in the interest of maintaining their traditional financiers no matter how scornful and unAfrican the idea may be, as long as it has been dictated to them by their “masters”, they have to give it their full support.
 
As Zimbabweans, we should identify with our cultures and let us try to avoid humiliating ourselves by adopting foreign cultures in our constitution. Let us fight for a home-grown constitution without foreign connotations. Zimbabwe is a Christian country and if we truly follow the teachings of the Holy Bible we will not forget that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God for no other sin but homosexuality.
 
Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai has gone against his party’s position and sided with President Mugabe in condemning the issue of including gay rights in Zimbabwe’s new constitution. Surprisingly, James Maridadi, the spokesman for Tsvangirai issued a statement contradicting his principal to the effect that what Tsvangirai said was his personal opinion and not MDC-T position. He forgets that whenever Tsvangirai responds to official issues he will be speaking from the position of authority as leader of and on behalf of MDC-T.
 
This is not the first time that Maridadi has spoken against his principal. When Tsvangirai finally admitted on the issue of sanctions, Maridadi professed ignorance that Zimbabwe was under economic sanctions which left Zimbabweans wondering whether he knew what economic sanctions were or he was being economic with the truth.
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gman
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2010, 03:15:12 PM »

"As Zimbabweans we should identify with our cultures... Zimbabwe is a Christian country and if we truly follow the teachings of the holy bible we will not forget that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God for no other sin but homosexuality".
I don't think I need to point out the contradiction in the first statement as it is blindingly obvious. Since Zimababwe has only been a Christian country since it was invaded by white people, OBVIOUSLY Christianity is not "[Zimababwean] culture".
The pre-christian Shona, Ndebele and other ethnic groups in Zimababwe may or may not have condemned or tolerated homosexuality; I have no idea. But leaving that aside, as Sixpence Manyengavana is basing his argument on "the holy bible" (KJV I would imagine): it would seem that in common with many, perhaps most, self proclaimed Christians, he (if he is a he and not a she) hasn't even read the book he claims to base his beliefs on in any detail. He certainly seems to have missed the Book of Isaiah, which specifically asks the question "what was sodom's sin" and then answers with several things, not one, none of which are homosexuality. If Sixpence wanted to look for a Biblical justification for violent homophobia he would be better off consuting the book of leviticus, which is much more explicit in condemning (male) homosexuality (along with various other things, including adultery, which Jacob Zuma might get a bit worried about... not saying that it is necessarily "adultery" to have more than one wife, but by all reports he doesn't limit his activities to his five wives anyway, and by some reports does not limit them to consenting partners either).
It is more than a little ironic that a KJV Bible-thumper named "Sixpence" is condemning western influence in Africa.
The only thing I can agree with him on is that the west indeed has no right to self-righteously tell Africans anything. No argument there.
Challenges to the structure of African societies should come from within those societies, not from self-righteous hypocritical outsiders who are only interested in continuing the exploitation of Africa.
The statement "Africa's zero tolerance on homosexuality is full proof that the practice is outlawed in most of the continent's countries" is utterly meaningless.
It's like saying "the fact that the sky is blue is full proof that the sky is blue." Which ain't even true because the sky is not always blue.
I have to go, may say more later if others don't touch on certain points.
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Iniko Ujaama
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2010, 08:19:02 PM »

I agree with some points raised here by you gman
- invocation of the Christian condemnation of homosexuality to forward African right to determining for self what is appropriate. Agreed Christianity in Zimbabwe is a foreign doctrine.
- The West is just being hypocritical and arrogant there and are in no position to lecture Africans about what is appropriate to them

As far as sexuality is concerned, perhaps a good place to start to come to a better understanding of how various African cultures dealt with and saw sexuality in the African context. I have encountered cases of what is termed homosexuality in an article on Egypt as well as mention of something approximating "gays" in Burkina Faso. I do not even know how useful the term homosexual is in terms of understanding ourselves as Africans. What I mean by that is: did we see the individual or gender in the manner in which Europeans did or do? Did African cultures by and large see attraction in the same sense. Homosexuality (the term) focuses on physical sexuality and attraction. Such a narrow paradigm does not allow much space for ones to navigate attraction whether between the same sex or opposite sex. Men can be drawn/attracted to other men or women. What does that mean? Does it mean that it necessitates physical affection or sexual intercourse and so called "romance". To me this is one place to start in dealing with the issue. To me to even start with the term "homosexual" already narrows the discussion. I firmly agree with keeping the White world out of determining what is appropriate for Africa but in a sense they still do in a proxy form via dogmas like Christianity as well as through their terminology, cultural concepts etc.

http://www.cultural-expressions.com/thesis/gay.htm - Here is Malidoma Some "Gays: Guardians of the Gates"

btw could you share that Isaiah verse reference?
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gman
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2010, 11:48:57 AM »

Isaiah 1:10-11 implies some of the sins of Sodom, namely being unjust and not defending the rights of the widow and the orphan. The verse I was thinking of that I remembered as containing the q&a "what was Sodom's sin" is actually in Ezekiel 16:49 - my mistake. Ezekiel mentions arrogance, living in luxury whilst neglecting the poor and needy, and unspecified "abominations."
Obviously the story of Lot and his family, the angels and the destruction of Sodom portrays the inhabitants of Sodom as intent on homosexual rape (assuming that these are the male inhabitants of Sodom) of the angels, giving us a clue as to what was one of these "abominations" they practiced. But this points to homosexual rape, not necessarily to "homosexuality" in general.
The point you make about definitions of "homosexuality" etc. is a good one.
One point to add is that, in my country and I am sure in others, some of the same people spouting anti-gay rhetoric in public or in private, from heads of state on down, and enforcing laws against consenting adult "homosexuality", have, shall we say, skeletons in the closet, and sometimes these skeletons are of the same gender and not always of the appropriate, or even legal, age group.
My country is an especially blatant example of this, given that there is a law on the books specifying 10 years prison for conseting adult homosexuality, whilst the president (said to be given to homophobic comments, although also universally "rumoured" to be bi-sexual himsefl) has just re-appointed a crony of his who was caught on tape soliciting sex from a minor (of the same sex, incidentally) to, of all things "the Rights of the Child commission".
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seshem19
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2010, 10:36:25 AM »

look  there is no need for folks to be "cute" if one does not know every line of the bible it is ok. if one wants to hold on to as much african culture as one can, that is ok.  there is no need to invalidate folks because there are some contradictions.  there is always some contradictions in all human social constructs.  All.! africa doesn't want wholesale homosexuality and i think they should  follow. that.  i agree i dont think homosexuality was rampant in Africa traditioinally ( until invaders) but im sure there were exceptions. as in India which  provided a social place for "female men" If certain leaders were bit by the sexual inversion and perversion of secret bi sexual trysts on one hand and they are still  against their country being flooded with homosexuality on the other, then maybe they dont want what happened to them to happened to their country. (on some unconscious level) plus they know their rank and file people dont want it. maybe it is like a drug addict who is on drugs but certainly doesn't want his  family friends and neighbors on it. (to provide you with a limited analogy)

  YOU DONT HAVE TO BE A SO CALLED HOMOPHOBE TO NOT WANT RAMPANT HOMOSEXUALITY AND GAYS ADOPTING CHILDREN  ETC. IN YOUR LAND!! 
And maybe some of the higher ups that help to get laws like these passed in the west are bi sexual and have "skeletons" also   so that would make them a self serving  interloper in the the hetero-sexual based world of jurisprudence.
 
Lets leave Africa alone for God's Sake... as  Chinweizu has shown in his magnificent book "The west and the Rest of Us"  THE WEST DOESN'T MINE FOOLING AFRICANS, EXPLOITING AFRICANS, ASSASINATING AFRICANS, - INSTRUCT THE CIA AND OTHER FACTIONS TO SPY ON AND UNDERMINE AFRICANS AND SURREPTITIOUSLY INVOLVE THEMSELVES IN AFRICAN POLITICS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE WEST MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, TOXIC DUMP ON AFRICA -NUCLEAR AND NON NUCLEAR, AND FINALLY UNDERMINES AFRICA IN SCHOLARLY PURSUITS LIKE IN EGYPTOLOGY BECAUSE EGYPT CANT BE BLACK .....they have no right after all of this to try to take the moral high ground about homosexuality....AFRICA  BEWARE!  WHATEVER THE WEST SUPPORTS  OR PUSHES NO MATTER HOW HUMANITARIAN IT SEEMS!!!!!   EVALUATE IT TEN TIMES OVER EVEN TAKE IT TO RESPONSIBLE PROVEN ELDERS/ SPIRITUAL READERS (DONT JUST TRY TO INTELLECTUALLY ANALYZE IT ALONE, USE ALL YOUR RESOURCES) FOR THE WEST HAS PROVEN ITS SELF SERVING HARMFULLNESS MANY TIMES OVER!!!
No matter what they seem to give  they take far more with their hidden hand.

Finally  this  note,  maybe as Africa didn't have prisons and the west does  maybe the wests focus on wealth and exploitation is not the proper focus for a society therefore it becomes Crimogenic. (it manufactures and promotes the errant growth of the spirit toward criminality) maybe the ancestors where right and certain rituals and other african cultural devices which help root males in their maleness and females in their femaleness -helps to not have a proliferation of folks suffering from sexual inversion while recognizing humanely that some still get born. (and provide a social niche for them that the people of that land are comfortable with.)

We started this planet in civilization (Egypt/Kemet and Ethiopia) we have a right to lift up our collective minds (the west depressed it)  and come up with our own morality and solutions and not just apply education from oxford or the sorbonne onto it. or  wait for comformation from the US state department or international media arm of the west.   they truly are  the Real "Matrix" and we need to keep resisting them while finding out what is useful from the west and what is not.

and  gman - sodomy from the biblical sodom (as you know) was given that name because of the bible  and it means if  i'm not mistaken a man sleeping with and penetrating another man.
thats the general understanding today  even if the nit pickers will say that the bible didn't specifically mention that exact act.
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gman
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2010, 05:01:10 PM »

"Sodomy", "buggery" etc. are generally defined in the lawbooks (in those countries where they are illegal) as anal sex whether hetero or homosexual.
It's not "nitpicking" to point out that the Bible doesn't specifically list homosexuality as the sin of Sodom, certainly not the ONLY sin of Sodom, which is what the author of the article stated. If you are supposedly getting your views from the Bible then they should be based on what the Bible actually says, no? If you're basing your views on your idea of what is "natural" or "unnnatural" independently of the Bible, then that's a different story, but that was not where the author of the article was coming from.
In my opinion the bottom line is there should be no laws anywhere restricting people's personal behaviour UNLESS that behaviour impacts negatively on others. It doesn't matter whether or not you like gay people, are homophobic or not homophobic or whatever. The point is people should have the right to do whatever they want THAT DOESN'T OPPRESS OR EXPLOIT OTHERS, regardless whether you like it or not. Some people don't like people like me smoking ganja and they could make an argument that it is "unnatural" (what animal ingests smoke into their lungs) that is perhaps more valid than those who say homo or bi sexuality is "unnatural", as several apparent instances of that have been documented in non human species. That doesn't give them the right to lock me up for smoking ganja regardless of how offensive it might be to religious elders who consider themselves guardians of their culture or whatever. By the same token it doesn't give me the right to go in those peoples' houses and blow ganja smoke in their faces.
As far as leaving Africa alone, wasn't that what I was saying? Perhaps you need to re-read the post?
Now going off topic but I've got to say this... NO the president of Guyana and his child molesting presidential spokesman do not have any interests of Guyanese at heart in some "do as I say not as I do" sense (not that that would be justifiable, it would still be complete hypocrisy!) Guyana is run by a clique of kleptocrats, rapists, pedophiles and cocaine traffickers masquerading as a "gov't" using racial hatred and insecurity to divide and conquer the poor people FULL STOP. A picture speaks a thousand words, so check out these youtube clips:
Torture of Teenager in Guyana
and
Torture
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Alafia87
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 11:38:12 PM »

http://www.cultural-expressions.com/thesis/gay.htm - Here is Malidoma Some "Gays: Guardians of the Gates"


The above interview makes me think that some people are really born gay, but in Malidoma's
place, they don't marry men to other men or women to other women, so I think the whole
homosexuality thing is social construction.

Besides, homosexuality is against the 77 commandments--the spiritual laws we were living by
worldwide during the more than 100,000 years of Kemetic culture and Kemetic cultures worldwide.
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Alafia87
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 11:49:22 PM »

Commandment #10--Thou shalt not sin against nature with one's own kind.
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