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EmpresKeneilwe
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« on: August 13, 2008, 09:30:56 AM »

Greetings

I'm fairly new on this forum. I'm not Rastafarian, just looking for guidance.
I have two things on my mind that have always bothered me Huh. I'm here to learn and grow into my most spiritual being with the Most High. I'm not here to offend anyone, and if I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

Hotep.
Keneilwe

  • Why is it that most rastafarians always make reference to the bible, and yet they stand firm against christianity?
  • Don't you ever wonder why the bible does not dwell much on "his teenage years"? I mean from when he was 13 to 33, happened during those years
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Tyehimba
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 09:46:24 AM »

Greetings Keneilwe

#" Why is it that most rastafarians always make reference to the bible, and yet they stand firm against christianity?"

It has to do with the context of the early Rasta movement in Jamaica. Jamaica was/is a heavily Christianized country, so even though the early Rastas rebelled against Christianity and the general colonial order of Jamaican society, they maintained aspects of what they were accustomed to. It is important to note, that not many avenues of information was available, except for the bible. The context is much different to now, where persons have access to THE internet, and many books, newspapers, magazines and other sources of information.


RAS MARCUS: Very much. Some of the songs that Rastafari people sing today were Christian songs. They just changed the words around. Most of us came up in Christianity because our parents went to churches and so on. We learned much about Christianity. We only transferred it over in the name of Rastafari and turned the thing around. It didn't cleanse the movement because it was a Christian doctrine in Jamaica under the British. We have all types of churches there. We have the Catholic, the Baptist, the Presbyterian and all the different things to go with the different churches. When your parents go to church, they would dress you up and take you to another side. When you grow up as a Rasta, you would be looked upon as rebellious because you rebelled against the White picture. Most of those Christ pictures of White paintings would be on the walls in your mother's house. You believed in it because it is coming out of the Bible, therefore, you become very much influenced by the Christian situation in Jamaica.
http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/ras_marcus/3105072.html

Also: http://www.mutabaruka.com/newfaculty.htm

I can understand the context in which the bible was used a point of reference, however in this time, people have much much greater access to sources of information, so they do not have to rely on a book that was imposed on Caribbean people during enslavement and colonialism.
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EmpresKeneilwe
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 10:19:32 AM »

RAS MARCUS: When your parents go to church, they would dress you up and take you to another side. When you grow up as a Rasta, you would be looked upon as rebellious because you rebelled against the White picture. Most of those Christ pictures of White paintings would be on the walls in your mother's house. You believed in it because it is coming out of the Bible, therefore, you become very much influenced by the Christian situation in Jamaica.
http://www.rastafarispeaks.com/ras_marcus/3105072.html

Also: http://www.mutabaruka.com/newfaculty.htm


I give thanks for the enlightment and the references. I'm a bit clearer on this issue.
I think in general, all blacks go through that whole period of being forced to go to church. I'm from Azania and trust me religion, moreover christianity is big in the black community. People would kill for that religion.
The image of a white Jesus just goes unnoticed. Once again. Thank you.

Hotep.
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Tyehimba
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 10:47:57 AM »

It is interesting that no matter how much Christianity has been imposed, in the Caribbean and Africa, people would still find a way to keep certain traditional aspects of African spirituality alive. No people can ever be totally colonized.

Are there organisations in Azania who are advocating and trying to encourage African awareness and spirituality?
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mrthepen
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 05:00:59 PM »

GREETINGS  KENEILWE (DOES THAT HAVE A LINK TO KENNETH McNIEL AND WE?: SOUNDS LIKE ONE OF THOSE CODED NAMES: YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT "I AM THE MASTER OF BREAKING THE CODES."

YOUR QUESTION WAS: "WHY IS IT THAT MOST RASTAFARIANS ALWAYS MAKE REFERENCE TO THE BIBLE YET THEY STAND FIRM AGAINST CHRISTIANITY?" (THAT WAS YOUR QUESTION (EMPRESS) KENEILWE?) ARE YOU AN EMPRESS? YES OR NO? PLEASE RESPOND, SINCE I LIKE TO KNOW TO WHOM I AM REASONING WITH!!!!!!

MY ANSWER: FIRST, I AM PRETTY SURE THAT YOU DO NOT KNOWMOST RASTAFARIANS, THE LATEST COUNT OF RASTAFARIANS NUMER IN EXCESS OF ONE MILLION ADHERENTS WORLD-WIDE ( SEE THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD RELIGIONS PUBLISHED BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC SYNOD )

SINCE YOU DO NOT KNOW MOST RASTAFARIANS!!!  YOU CANNOT PRESUME TO SPEAK FOR I N I (US).

SO YOU ARE REALLY ASKING SOMETHING THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW BUT YOU FAIL TO HUMBLE YOURSELF ENOUGH TO ASK? AND WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTION YOU SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT THOSE WHO ANSWER ARE QUALIFIED TO DO SO!!!!

LET ME GIVE YOU A VERY BRIEF I-STORY ( HISTORY OF RASTAFARI)

I N I FORWARD FROM CREATION ( WE HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE CREATION)

THE FIRST RASTAMAN IS ADAM!!!

BECAUSE OF EVE: I NI ( ADAM AND EVE ) LOST THE IRATION!!

IT WAS TURNED INTO FRUSTRATION!!!

I NI HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET FORWARD TO THE IRATION!!!!

IN THIS DISPENSATION I N I "WORD SOUND" IS RASTAFARI SELASSIE I !!!!!!

THE ONLY SOUND THAT CAN SHOW I N I "THE WAY TO IRATION"

PERSONALLY I-MAN WAS RAISED IN THE CHURCH: ALL ARTICAL RASTAFARI PEOPLE HOLD FIRMLY TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE BIBLE ( IBLE ) BASIC INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE LEAVING EARTH )

IN JAMAICA WHERE RASTAFARI SELASSIE BECAME MANIFESTED IN THIS DISPENSATION, I N I HOLD TO THE WORDS OF HIS IMPERIAL MAJESTY (HIM ) "...AS FOR THE BIBLE, WE GLORIFY IT..." ( HIS IMPERIAL MAJESTY EMPERIOR HAILE SELASSIE I IS THE DEFENDER OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH ) SEE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, SEE THE ETHIOPIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH, SEE THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH!!!!!!!

RASPEK.
-MRTHEPEN-
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Tyehimba
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2008, 05:27:34 PM »

MRTHEPEN:
Quote
LET ME GIVE YOU A VERY BRIEF I-STORY ( HISTORY OF RASTAFARI)

I N I FORWARD FROM CREATION ( WE HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE CREATION)

THE FIRST RASTAMAN IS ADAM!!!

BECAUSE OF EVE: I NI ( ADAM AND EVE ) LOST THE IRATION!!
~~~~

That is not Rastafari history...that is Judeo-Christian mythology and fables that Europeans imposed on people of the world during colonialism. The first man and woman on this earth was not Adam and Eve, that is a 2, 000 year old fable, that is in the same category as Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Humanity has been around much much longer.

Rasta is a very diverse movement and there are differing perspectives as to the role of the Judeo Christian bible. I know many Rastafarians who reject it outright, and i know many Rastas as well who embrace it.

For me as a Rasta, the Bible is not necessary, and is just a book like the other millions of books around. With its many contradictions, misconcepts and confused stories it can even be an impediment to a people understanding themselves. People can get much more from studying general African history and the collective wisdom of the ancestors.

Quote from Mutabaruka:

"What I am really trying to say here, is that our own religious knowledge goes back no further than the 6,000 year history presented by this bible, (from Genesis to the beginning of this century, according to the bible, is 6,000 years). History and archeological evidence prove Ethiopia and Egypt existed thousands of years beyond that - much, much more than a mere 6,000 years.

Rastafarians have been very influential because of our music and cultural practices. For Rastafarians to move forward in this time, we will have to go beyond the bible, we can no longer continue to justify Haile Selassie’s divinity through the Davidic link. Ethiopia existed thousands of years before Abraham walked out of the Ur of the Chaldees. Even Egypt, which as been demonized by the authors of the Old Testament, existed thousands of years before Israel.

We can not continue to close out other information that is not in line with the bible. The bible is just one set of peoples’ understanding of human behavior and personality. The events recorded in the bible are on the periphery of afrikan knowledge. Stories recorded in the bible have their genesis in other indigenous people’s folk tales. What we are taking as history is other people’s mythology."
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EmpresKeneilwe
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2008, 02:48:03 AM »

Greetings...a new day has dawned upon us, well it's 8:01am where I am.
Hope it gets brighter!

Are there organisations in Azania who are advocating and trying to encourage African awareness and spirituality?

Not that I am aware of. I'm fairly new to these realisations. So I'm only starting to do as much research as  possibly can. Once I have certain info, I will certainly share my findings.
In all honesty, most people where I stay are pretty much westernised. Always in defense of the mainstream religion, any religion and education. We are always encouraged to go to church whether or not believe in it. And if you speak against the church and the bible, you are labelled "satan's disciple". It's quiet difficult to voice your opinion about anything, but not impossible. Or you are being racist.

GREETINGS  KENEILWE (DOES THAT HAVE A LINK TO KENNETH McNIEL AND WE?: SOUNDS LIKE ONE OF THOSE CODED NAMES: YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT "I AM THE MASTER OF BREAKING THE CODES."

No it does not. That's my name, which means I am given in Setswana.

ARE YOU AN EMPRESS? YES OR NO? PLEASE RESPOND, SINCE I LIKE TO KNOW TO WHOM I AM REASONING WITH!!!!!!

I feel and believe that I am a Goddess, like every black woman, which means, to me you become an Empress. Every black man is an Emperor. Though I give thanks for your comment/input, you are not at liberty to reason with me. I'm only here to learn and grow. This is not a debate.

MY ANSWER: FIRST, I AM PRETTY SURE THAT YOU DO NOT KNOWMOST RASTAFARIANS, THE LATEST COUNT OF RASTAFARIANS NUMER IN EXCESS OF ONE MILLION ADHERENTS WORLD-WIDE ( SEE THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD RELIGIONS PUBLISHED BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC SYNOD )

SINCE YOU DO NOT KNOW MOST RASTAFARIANS!!!  YOU CANNOT PRESUME TO SPEAK FOR I N I (US).

SO YOU ARE REALLY ASKING SOMETHING THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW BUT YOU FAIL TO HUMBLE YOURSELF ENOUGH TO ASK? AND WHEN YOU ASK A QUESTION YOU SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT THOSE WHO ANSWER ARE QUALIFIED TO DO SO!!!!


If i came across as being arrogant, I truly apologise. But if you take a look at my original post, I specifically said "most", not all Rastas. And yes, you are right; I do not a lot of Rastas. It's just the few I've come across. Thanks for the references, I will most certainly make use of them
It's now that I'm embracing my conscienceness. I'm sure I'll learn a whole lot from you all.

Stay blessed.
Keneilwe

Humbling myself To MRTHEPENand everyone else
I'm fairly new on this forum. I'm not Rastafarian, just looking for guidance...I'm here to learn and grow into my most spiritual being with the Most High. I'm not here to offend anyone, and if I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

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mrthepen
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2008, 03:33:11 PM »

GREETINGS KENEILWE: SO YOU ARE FROM AZANIA? (THEY SHOULD HAVE CHANGED THE NAME BACK FROM SOUTH AFRICA TO THE ORIGINAL "AZANIA" DID YOU SUPPORT "PAC"?

YOU MIS-UNDERSTOOD MY USE OF THE WORD "REASONING" ( IN RASTAFARI IT DOES NOT TRANSLATE TO "DEBATE" I AM NOT DEBATING YOU)

LET ME CLARIFY SOME THINGS FOR YOU AND TIE-HIM-BA (SOUNDS LIKE KUM- BAH- YAH )

MUTABARUKA DID NOT INVENT RASTAFARI!!!! HE DOES NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY ON I N I REASONING, I KNOW HIM, HE DOES NOT PRETEND TO BE "THE VOICE OF RASTAFARI, HAILE SELASSIE!!!!"  NEITHER  DO I-MAN- SO GET THAT STRAIGHT (PUN INTENDED )

I N I BURN 6,000 YEARS HISTORY OF THE BIBLE ( THAT IS WHAT YOU SAY, NOT I )  THE BIBLE ( BASIC INSTRUCTION BEFORE LEAVING EARTH) IS AS OLD AS THE EARTH (PANGEA 4-6 BILLION YEARS)  IF YOU PAY ATTENTION YOU WOULD OVERS ( UNDERSTAND! ) THE BIBLE INSTRUCTS "... WITH ALL YOUR GETTING, GET UNDERSTANDING!..."    ANOTHER PASSAGE FROM THE BIBLE  ..."ONE DAY IS LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS IN THE EYES OF GOD..."  YOUR CONVENTIONAL TIMELINE OF THE BIBLE IS MOOT TO I N I RASTAFARI!!!  lET ME SHOW YOU.  SINCE THE BIBLE IS A BOOK OF INTERPRETATION IT FOLLOWS THAT I N I INTERPRETATION IS AS VALID AS YOURS!! NOW HERE IS THE DEFERENCE BETWEEN RASTAFARI AND SO CALLED CHRISTIANS ( CHRISTIAN MEANS FOLLOWER OF "THE CHRIST" ) CAN YOU TELL ME IF EVERYONE WHO CALL THEMSELF A CHRISTIAN IS "A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST?"   AS RASTA PEOPLE WE DO NOT TRY TO CONVINCE (CON VINCE) ANYONE!!!!  FOR A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE I SUGGEST YOU READ DR. JOSEPH BEN JOCHANNAN'S "A CHRONOLOGY OF THE BIBLE"  AND "BLACK MAN OF THE NILE"  THESE SHOULD GIVE YOU A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE EVOLUTION OF RELIGIONS, INCLUDING CHRISTIANITY.  FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE THE REASONING IF YOU SO DESIRE.

RASPEK
-MRTHEPEN-
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EmpresKeneilwe
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2008, 03:58:29 AM »

Greeting MRTHEPEN

I give thanks for your humble reasoning.
SO YOU ARE FROM AZANIA? (THEY SHOULD HAVE CHANGED THE NAME BACK FROM SOUTH AFRICA TO THE ORIGINAL "AZANIA" DID YOU SUPPORT "PAC"?
.

I fully concur with that. And yes, I do support PAC. It is just unfortunate that when Nelson Mandela was released from prison, the ANC went to rambling about how they would do everything for a better change. Equality of everything. But as you know, only a small black elite are riding the gravy train. The very people that voted them in power are the ones suffering the most. Poor than ever. It is true when they say that most of Africa's people are illiterate. The thought of them voting some else in power is far fetched.

As you may be aware, PAC wanted to drive the whites out. ANC refused. And now the whites are still running the country, even under black rule (face). ANC members are fighting amongst themselves for power. The situation is getting worse. For the sake of diplomacy the name was kept as that. Not much has changed; apart from coming and going as you please. No more "europeans only".

Now everyone claims to be AFRICAN Angry, and how we live in rainbow nation of equality, but as you know, they are always quick to use the term "white" (purity)  according to many, when blacks are painted in a bad light!

FOR A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE I SUGGEST YOU READ DR. JOSEPH BEN JOCHANNAN'S "A CHRONOLOGY OF THE BIBLE"  AND "BLACK MAN OF THE NILE"  THESE SHOULD GIVE YOU A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE EVOLUTION OF RELIGIONS, INCLUDING CHRISTIANITY.  FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE THE REASONING IF YOU SO DESIRE.
Unfortunately, our book stores, only cater for whites and other races. Religion is very scares. Even books by black authors, are scares. There's only one shop where we get books on African history, that have to be shipped from the US. (I stand corrected if someone else knows more). Therefore there's a waiting period of about 4 - 5 weeks to get those books. So I stick to the internet. Smiley

Peace to you all.
Have a blessed day and keep browning as the sun keeps shining.

Hotep
Keneilwe
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EmpresKeneilwe
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2008, 04:42:06 AM »

One more thing, I forgot to mention about the failure of the ANC.

The xenophobic refugees to being forced to leave the camps. The government does nothing about it. Most whites are shouting "it's about time they eliminate each other". Black-on-black at it's worst.

Which confuses is that Mbeki, is being diplomatic about the Zim situation, and on the other hand he's allowing refugees to be terrorised. That for me, that is having double standards. Angry

So basically, we have no say in anything. The government has the final say.
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Tyehimba
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 01:55:08 PM »

Quote
I N I BURN 6,000 YEARS HISTORY OF THE BIBLE ( THAT IS WHAT YOU SAY, NOT I )  THE BIBLE ( BASIC INSTRUCTION BEFORE LEAVING EARTH) IS AS OLD AS THE EARTH (PANGEA 4-6 BILLION YEARS)  IF YOU PAY ATTENTION YOU WOULD OVERS ( UNDERSTAND! ) THE BIBLE INSTRUCTS "... WITH ALL YOUR GETTING, GET UNDERSTANDING!..."    ANOTHER PASSAGE FROM THE BIBLE  ..."ONE DAY IS LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS IN THE EYES OF GOD..."  YOUR CONVENTIONAL TIMELINE OF THE BIBLE IS MOOT TO I N I RASTAFARI!!!  lET ME SHOW YOU.  SINCE THE BIBLE IS A BOOK OF INTERPRETATION IT FOLLOWS THAT I N I INTERPRETATION IS AS VALID AS YOURS!! NOW HERE IS THE DEFERENCE BETWEEN RASTAFARI AND SO CALLED CHRISTIANS ( CHRISTIAN MEANS FOLLOWER OF "THE CHRIST" ) CAN YOU TELL ME IF EVERYONE WHO CALL THEMSELF A CHRISTIAN IS "A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST?"   AS RASTA PEOPLE WE DO NOT TRY TO CONVINCE (CON VINCE) ANYONE!!!!  FOR A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE I SUGGEST YOU READ DR. JOSEPH BEN JOCHANNAN'S "A CHRONOLOGY OF THE BIBLE"  AND "BLACK MAN OF THE NILE"  THESE SHOULD GIVE YOU A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE EVOLUTION OF RELIGIONS, INCLUDING CHRISTIANITY.  FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE THE REASONING IF YOU SO DESIRE.

I am quite familiar with the writings of Ben Jochannan, which you have cited. More people should definitely read the works of this great African scholar. However, his work directly contradicts what you are saying. Even the direct works that you cited do not support that the Judeo Christian mythology book , the Holey Bible is as old as the earth. In his work A CHRONOLOGY OF THE BIBLE" Ben Jochannan explains that the books of the bible were a distorted version of the "Book of the Coming Forth By Day and By Night". He dates the Old Testament at around 500-700 BC.
See Link: http://www.africawithin.com/jochannan/drben_bible_chronology.htm

African culture, phiilosophy and spirituality was flourishing for thousands of years before the creation of this Judeo Christian book of myths, which as Ben Jochannan shows is not original in itself, nor inspired by 'God", but largely distorted and copied from earlier sources.

The pervasiveness of the Judeo-Christian bible can be attributed the the military and missionary might and greed of colonizing Europeans.
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mrthepen
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« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 03:58:07 PM »

A RESPONSE TO TIE-IM-BACK:

SO YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE WORKS THAT I SUGGESTED?!

WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

THAT HAS NO MEANING TO ME.

YOU ARE CORRECT IN SAYING THAT DR. BEN SAYS THE BIBLE ( A COLLECTION OF WRITINGS THAT IS SAID TO BE INSPIRED BY GOD) IS NOT ORIGINAL ( THAT IS IN THE CONTEXT  OF HOW MOST CHRISTIANS BELIEVE/THINK).

HE USES THE WORKS ASCRIBED TO THE PHAROH AKNATTON TO SHOW THAT THERE ARE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN SOME ANCIENT KEMITIAN WRITINGS (MEDU NETER) AND THE( WRITTEN) BIBLE ( A PHYSICAL BOOK).

WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT "THE INSPIRED WORDS OF THE MOST HIGH GOD(JAH), THE BIBLE,(BASIC INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE LEAVING EARTH) WERE WRITTEN ON THE TABLES OF THE HEART: ADAM'S AND EVE'S , LONG BEFORE THEY WERE PHYSICALLY WRITTEN DOWN ON STONE OR PAPER.  SELAH.

-MRTHEPEN-
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Tyehimba
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2008, 07:00:05 PM »

Mrthepen,

I do not think that you understand the very books that you mentioned.

What you are presenting is in essence a Judeo-Christian interpretation. The Judeo Christian bible is not a history of the world or of humanity. Humanity certainly did not start with Adam or Eve.

People  need to break free of the shackles of the Judeo Christian/European concepts of 'god', history and the divine.

Tyehimba
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emmpress_i
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« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2010, 03:37:34 PM »

Christ is said to be born in Nazareth according to the bible. So when stydying the book of leviticus it is clear that he also lived under all the laws that Jah commanded. This includes not cutting or shaving the hair nor combing nor using alcohol etc... Christianity  and the tern was born later than these events. So if the "christian" world claims to be firmly rooted how then can we ignore the very traditions and statutes by which Christ himself led his life. He was a dread man coming in the image of his father. Selasie I is ahmaric for power of the holy trinity and this is the name that ancient Africans used to chant because they believed that their ancestors were reincarnated into a different flesh. So was christ. I read an old catholic doctrine which was written in the 1940's that said even Mary Magdalene and his disciples did not recognide him whan he was resurrected until he spoke in his usual paraboles (in tongue) and repeated words he had conversed with them earlier. Hebrew = ahramaic (ancient ahmari) and the ethiopians used the croo to signify nature and respect it even before Christ made himself known among humanity. This is not a question of religion or "christianity". The rasta movement si based upon and firmly rooted in history, geography, anthropology, arccaeology, science(biology,chemistry,numerology etc..). It is the "christians" namely the first pope who claimed descendance from the disciple Peter who decide to change all the nazarite laws and tell the world its ok to shave your heads and eat pork. Before Samsons mother conceived him an angek visited her and told her that 'you are not to touch one hair upon the head of the for his shall be like the son of man. and whan we dread people were pating respect to our descendants namely Abraham I saac and Jacob (which is chirists bloodline) romans wre thinking of ways to crucuft Christ. Where do we draw the line? Ras tafari himself is descandant of Solomon throughSheba and having the royal bloodline. H.I.M id Christs descendant (power of the holy trinity) and Jah said the sceptre shall not depart from judah (christ) and davids descendants shall sit on the throne. so if christ is solomons descendant then so is David since he is the father fo Solomon. Even genetics,DNA and the average family proves my point.
Holy Emanuel I Selasie I jah Rastafari.
Blessed heart of love. This is the generation of them that seek thy face oh Jacob!
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