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Author Topic: Selassie's Denial Of Being The Messiah  (Read 28134 times)
Ayinde
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« on: September 29, 2003, 04:16:30 AM »

Posted on the Message board By: kaya IsesaJah
Date: Sunday, 28 September 2003, at 8:11 p.m.


Emperor Haile Selassie's Denial Of Being The Messiah

Rastafarians worship Emperor Haile Selassie despite his many denials of being God.

Listen to Emperor Haile Selassie denial of deity in an interview in Canada in 1967 aboard the royal train.

Below is a portion of the transcript of the first personal radio interview granted by Emperor Haile Selassie. CBC reporter Bill McNeil conducted the interview with Emperor Haile Selassie while in Canada 1967 aboard the Royal train.

Questioned by Bill McNeil: "there are millions of Christians throughout the world, your Imperial Majesty, who regard you as the reincarnation of Jesus Christ."

Selassie's answer: "I have heard of that idea. I also met certain Rastafarians. I told them clearly that I am a man, that I am mortal, and that I will be replaced by the oncoming generation, and that they should never make a mistake in assuming or pretending that a human being is emanated from a deity."

Narrator: But, despite this clear declaration, millions of Ethiopians still believe that he is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.

(Please Note the Narrator made a categorical mistake. Millions of Ethiopians do not consider Selassie to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. Ethiopia is one of the oldest Christian nations. In fact The Ethiopian Orthodox Church is said to be one of the oldest churches in the world and actually may be the first established church. (See Acts 8:27-39.)

Related Articles, Resources and Links

Bill McNeil, a 42-year veteran of the CBC


http://www.jamaicans.com/culture/rasta/interview_popup.htm
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Kebo
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2003, 07:32:03 AM »


This quote from Sellassie I conflicts with the story that when Haile Sellassie came to Jamaica in 1961 and met with the Rastafarians in a meeting he told them
"Holy Priests, Warriors, and traitors Be Still! And know that I am He"
Bob Marley celebrated that quote from His Majesty in one of his versions of the song 'Waiting in Vain' which he opens up saying "Holy Priests, Warriors, and Traitors Be Still, for Jah live"

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sisMenenI
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physical distance cannot be a barrier to love.


« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2003, 12:46:32 AM »

Something many Rastafari fighters fail to overstand is InI sight His Majesty as the perfect example... yes he fulfills prophecy all across the board.. but in his denial to be God is the perfect example of humility. I would be much quicker to question His Divinity if he stated "Yes, I am God."  ... nah, God wouldn't say that. And so, I stand solid as a rock in the truth and knowing that King Sellassie I is the Almighty and everliving King of Creation... who feels it knows it. Who else is to be seated on the throne descended from King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, having hair like lambs wool and feet like the brass? Only HIM Haile Sellassie the first and ofcourse His Empress Menen goes without saying in that the meaning of Haile Sellassie is Might of the Trinity, Father Son and Mother. Or ofcourse, you could sit around waiting for the clouds to break open and commit sin until that day never arrives... Jah Knows.
Blessed Love and give thanks for the reasoning.
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Yann
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2003, 10:40:15 AM »

"but in his denial to be God is the perfect example of humility. I would be much quicker to question His Divinity if he stated "Yes, I am God."  ... nah, God wouldn't say that. And so, I stand solid as a rock in the truth and knowing that King Sellassie I is the Almighty and everliving King of Creation"

Sis MenenI, Please explain how you came to understand this?  So he lies to prove that he is God? That does not make any sense to me. Lies to prove himself humble? Humility cannot be denial of truth. Please explain.

I would think there was much to be gained for what the man actually said:

"I told them clearly that I am a man, that I am mortal, and that I will be replaced by the oncoming generation, and that they should never make a mistake in assuming or pretending that a human being is emanated from a deity."

I see in that that he has carried out certain works and that the future generations should continue them. That is the divinity of our ancestors, that they live on within us, in their works and our divine committment to continue their works.

The insistence on bestowing godhood on a man who categorically refused it more than once seems to be unnecessary acrobatics to me.

This paper offers an interesting perspective. i have just taken this excerpt as it directly applies to my comment; the entire article is quite informative:

http://debate.uvm.edu/dreadlibrary/piper.html

"As the backbone of the Rasta religion, Selassie sits as the unsuspecting centerpiece. Hearing that all of these Jamaican's thought he was the living God, was completely ridiculous to him. This is why I fail to understand the reason why so many claim Selassie to be God, when he openly admitted that he was not. This is generally responded to, however, by the argument that God would not know he was God, on purpose, just so he, (Selassie), would not become absorbed in his power. I can understand this argument, but do not agree with it. I believe Selassie was often prophetical in his political and social decisions and clearly so, involving his influence on Rastas. However, I do not think of him as a true prophet, using the defenitions stated above . A major reason for this belief lies simply on the fact that he did not encourage the Rastas and refused to condone the"back to Africa"or Zion movement. As a political figure, with an image to uphold, the last thing he wanted was thousands of poor, dreaded Rastas, to sit around Ethiopia, puffing herb, and praising him as the Holy God. Instead he told the Jamaicans to stay where they were, and that Ethiopia was not their Zion.
Many people saw Selassie as a great hero in the struggle of black peoples everywhere and the work that Selassie did towards abolishing slavery in Ethiopia was perhaps some of the greatest work he did, in the eyes of the Rastas. Even though he was God, to many however, not all of his actions were purely righteous. Selassie's purpose was generally regarded as a man searching for political advancement and social achievement. His true intentions did not exceed the boundaries of these narrow goals. Although he is the basis of the Rasta movement, because some believe he is God, his existence on this planet was not truely propehtical. He was mainly a righteous man, politically, but not much else connects him with the Rasta movement. His life was so different than Marcus', or Bob's, because was a political figure at the same time, that they are all very difficult to compare. "
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sisMenenI
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physical distance cannot be a barrier to love.


« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2003, 11:38:16 AM »

Give thanks for the reasoning Yan,
In the current times, and as this reasoning board most obviously proves, race is a very significant issue. Can you imagine a black King professing to the world that He is God in flesh in a world run by the white business man? He worked his way through this system to be greatly respected by these men, he spoke in a way the whole world can understand. Have you read His Majesty's speeches?
It is also known that on his arrival to Jamaica, it rained after a long drought. He met with Rastafari elders in privacy where things were revealed in which these elders hailed His Majesty throughout their days. This is not a matter of lying, especially when seeing how most Christians hail Jesus on the cross... Sellassie I is the last person they'd expect to be riding down from the clouds in revelation. So the I must overstand the state of the world and how every move His Majesty made was being watched, for HIM to profess himself as God would not be of best interest in these times. And when I say God, I am speaking of the perfect example in which His Kingly character can be exemplified.  You said that our ancestors live within us, well then from that statement I am assuming that God dwelling within us is a concept you understand? Therefore, accepting His Majesty as the Almighty dwelling within each of us is something that should not be fought down when seeing the outcomes of such acceptance. Ones can say this or that about His Majesty's reign, but are the Rastafarians acting out in these ways in which are spoken of HIM? More than anything you hear "one love" attached to Rastafari. So this brings me back to how I sight HIM denying himself as God to be an act of humility and not as an act of lying. To each his own, nobody can "prove" Sellassie I is the Almighty to anyone, it's a conception of the heart... but InI keep our head and heart in unity, so the facts are there for the proof as well.
Blessed Love
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Tyehimba
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2003, 12:24:14 PM »

While i would disagree how persons who are decidely anti Rastafari/antiAfrica represent issues such as rastafari, Africa and Haile Selassie, i believe that people should not dwell in the bondage of blind faith and what is given to you, but do one's own research and operate from one's direct experiences as much as possible.

Respecting someone doesn't entail doing everything that person said or did especially without understanding the context/circumstances involved. Sometimes truth can challenge deeply imbedded notions that exist in the mainstream. Dealing with people's belief is a delicate task, and people's right to belief should be emphasized and advocated. At the same time, people also have a right to information, that would allow them to make the best possible decision. Although i have always respected the role Selassie played, i do not seek to do evverything that he did, and i do not agree with all the things he said. This is especially so in terms of his thoughts of the bible, and his diplomatic opinion of the Pope and the time. Even those that most say that they follow and subscribe to all the words of Selassie won't have the same opinion of the Pope that Selassie did. Selassie said that he considered the pope to be a good man.

Furthermore, because Selassie ate meat, does that mean that i should? NO!!! I won't condemn him for making his choice but i also have my choice to make based upon my experiences.


I think the crux of the issue is about examining ourselves critically and understanding why we do this, why we think like this. Are we just following the crowd, or are our beliefs stemming from our direct experiences.

modified @ 3:38 pm
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illskillz
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2003, 03:40:44 PM »

HIM is a man, no doubt, anyone can see that he says that vry clearly, why would God lie, he might not tell the truth or leave things to interpration but he wouldnt our right lie, I dont dont even know if he can lie. The book say God dont lie. To follow behind this man like that is cultish man, take him for what he is a very wise and honourable black African leader.
He did some fly things though, but why would Jah out his face on something as corrupt as dough, and he is no doubt all up on that ethiopian chese though. feel me. And if he is Jah then now what are you waiting for, why is the world not bun down then. why is his own country in such poor economic state. And yo  the communist can overthough  god but not them daym yankees? I know that Jah was behind him and he was of biblical blood ya and is Jah Jah king ya but  he wasnt  Jah  Jah.

if your god has come why is rasta so lost then, just quetioning, very little organization and schools, many many followers are incarcarated and lock down in us ghettos and emporverished on the islands.  NO the was guided ya as was malcolm but the demons malcolm saught to slay were mightier. The white supremiecy demon is deep boy, only a strong strong hand can slay it, it is deep within the minds and hearts of the people.   We was guided by Jah and royal yea.
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Ayinde
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2003, 05:24:44 PM »

sisMenenI,

Quote
You said that our ancestors live within us, well then from that statement I am assuming that God dwelling within us is a concept you understand? Therefore, accepting His Majesty as the Almighty dwelling within each of us is something that should not be fought down when seeing the outcomes of such acceptance.

I do not know who is fighting down beliefs, but for my part Selassie is not my supreme divine self/ancestor/'god', although others are quite in order to claim that. They may certainly be feeling something that I don't, but I am clear on MY divine self.

As has been stated before, Selassie has a place in our history, but no one can impose any one of our ancestors as everyone's supreme divinity. That to me is fundamentalism, very much similar to other so-called religious zealots.

Now I can certainly respect Selassie in the same manner that I have respect for all who contributed to our understanding, and I feel that is in keeping with what he said and pays proper respect to the many others who have contributed.

I know Rastas who do not accept Selassie as anything more than a symbol of Black leadership. Some see HIM as the fulfillment of Christian biblical theology. As such it is up to each person to apply the lessons from our collective wisdom to develop our selves and advance humanity.

To worship or hold someone in high esteem cannot mean the suspension of our brains. It simply means to do our best to emulate the good characteristics of that individual.

However, to worship or honor ourselves calls for more than that. It means we have to develop a broader understanding of our humanity so we can emulate all past and present good characteristics. I use 'emulate' and not 'follow'' as many follow blindly. To emulate means to equal or excel what went before. It cannot mean to repeat clichés and suspend thought and reason.

In Amharic 'Ras' mean 'head', as in leadership, and Tafari, "he who inspires awe".

The meaning of Ras Tafari could be applied to a great number of our African ancestors who have been spoken of with reverence, and had similar titles in their own languages. Many of them did much for the advancement of humanity. Some of us take the position that although 'Rastafari' was fashioned from the Amharic words Ras Tafari, it is just another modern term that can be used to symbolize our collective ancestral wisdom. Because SOME of our ancestral teachings were passed down through Haile Selassie, he too is accepted as part of our ancestral collective who contributed each in their own way to our development.

Of course many want us to credit Haile Selassie with attributes that he did not display. For I, it is far easier and practical to fit him into our ancestral collective, and learn from them all.
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illskillz
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2003, 06:21:01 PM »

son to tell the truth if he is someones God who am I&I to say anything about that. that is you then. really no disrespect sa.
is all good though, but peace and love, but friends I&I  wonder when you people will be serious, I&I havent heard anythng from the dreads in a long time politcally, I&I always thought they was  progressive people and politically aware. the terms used in culture as forward, study and others lead to believe a progresive movement was  on the rise, but it is very hard to the yall motivated. I&I can see that yall read the post and the number are high but the responce is low, and is not a new thing, so I gather that yall isnt into the action thing, just really intelligence that is to moss and hord knowage,  is cool though peace, if that is your role I&I cant really judge but sounds funny to me, would really have my people do it.       illskillz.  skylark to the future. is nice man
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