The whites who cause the problem...

[Oshun_Auset]

Not beeing in favor doesn't mean beeing against.

If you are not working for the people, you are working for the enemy, there is no middle ground.

I'm not quite understanding your reasoning on the Black/White dicotomy your conversation seems to be trapped in. But I do know there is plenty of work to be done for the masses of people in Brazil. The only people that think the anti-capitalist pro-people ideology is strictly intellectual are those that are not involved in the processes to make it a reality. If you feel left out in some way because you are not African/Black...there are plenty of anti-capitalist movements that are multi-ethnic or European/White in membership. European/Whites are exploited also, but they are not oppressed, and their elites are organized which gives them colour privilage. Socialism is for everyone. African/Black Nationalism is something that has to be developed by people of African/Black heritage. We must do our homework and be liberated before we can even consider anything beyond that. Our own liberation has to be priority #1. What good are we to any other cause if we are not free? I do not claim Rasta, so that question will have to be taken up with someone coming from that ideology.

asinine: Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
Of, relating to, or resembling an ass

(I keep the root word "ass" in my spelling of the word for obvious reasons)

Question: If you are not of African heritage why is your name Mandingo? Do you realize you are taking on the Europeanized spelling/pronunciation of the Mandinka people of what is now the Gambia - Senegal - Guinea Bissau area of West Africa? Isn't that just a little dissrespectful, and at the very least, misleading and strange?

[out_of_Zion]

|Thus why I thought he was Afrikan|  misleading - yes.

[Oshun_Auset]

|Thus why I thought he was Afrikan|  misleading - yes.

And I am really hoping it has no connection with the sexual connotaton the word Mandingo has aquired during and after chattel slavery! I'll wait for his response prior to ass-uming anything...lol...

[Ras Mandingo]

Sorry for the late response,

I was with no acess to internet for a couple of days.

Let's see the answers to the questions:

I'm a mixed person with hispanic, indian ans black origins and I look like a brown arab.

The world Mandingo that I use comes for my tradition with Capoeira and this surviving world has taken many connotations in the capoeira field, meaning more commonly something like "mystic". No sexual conotations or a trying to abuse the world.

About my point with blacks anbd whites:

Why Selassie I went to the league of the nations to ask for international intervention when invaded by Mssolini? Whe say that ethiopia is the only nation in africa that didin't suffer intervention, but how would it be without the english to help HIM?

I know how brazil need social works, specially to the black and poor, now to say in brazil who is black is not that easy as there was really interbreeding among races (sexually and culturaLLy) here. We are developing the works of the Ethiopian World Federation Inc down here and is the only and first people and place trying to do it in South America.

Well, if this virtual village doen't acept whites or mixed ones in duscussions and works is other point.

I come here wiht respect, with doubts and questions and looking forward to learn...

But if people here are useless in the point that can't reason (in a reasoning forum) and have to be agressive with vulgar vocabulary shows to me the end of the arguments of people who don't really have much to say but to play victims and try to be ofensive constructing nothing but an intelectual prison.

reason over the arguments, but to resume things trying to insult me, saying i'm a assinin and with no more arguments at all....

you really look like helpless people an I can see more clear now why you suffer and feel exploited.

I'm sorry you are miserable, arrogant and incapable of reasoning out of your dogmas.

Just put an anouncement on the main page saying that non-blac people are not acepted and people should come here just to learn to repeat synthetic ideas and not to develop reasoning over all different aspects of a point and to be able to make a bigger picture using reason and logic and not passion and revolt.

Still I believe there are serious people here and htat's why I still come here, as a whole I respect the place, but i'm sorry for the idiots. If I thought this wasn't a place to reason and grow why would I come here? I have moere to do then to try to be a distractor of a forum in a site in the internet.

Mandingo.

[Oshun_Auset]

"I'm a mixed person with hispanic, indian ans black origins and I look like a brown arab."

So therefore you ARE a person of African heritage! Why are you not identifying yourself as such? Confusion...

"The world Mandingo that I use comes for my tradition with Capoeira and this surviving world has taken many connotations in the capoeira field, meaning more commonly something like "mystic". No sexual conotations or a trying to abuse the world."

That's good, thanks for explaining.

"Why Selassie I went to the league of the nations to ask for international intervention when invaded by Mssolini? Whe say that ethiopia is the only nation in africa that didin't suffer intervention, but how would it be without the english to help HIM?"

Ethiopia wasn't officially colonized...And many people are critical of Selassie going to England for help.

"I know how brazil need social works, specially to the black and poor, now to say in brazil who is black is not that easy as there was really interbreeding among races (sexually and culturaLLy) here. We are developing the works of the Ethiopian World Federation Inc down here and is the only and first people and place trying to do it in South America."

A lot of South American and Carribbean countries have people of African mixed with "other" heritage that don't want to be called Black similar identity issues exist in the Dominican republic and other places(and used to here)...I see it as confusion.(Personally I refer to myself as an African in America, not Black, there is no Black land, and since we come in all different hues...on the Continent and in the diaspora...the idea of being an a person of African heritage seems more logical than playing the oppressors colour game) . If you look at the socio-economic stratification of wealth in these countries there is always the European/White elite at the top, and the Brown/Indigenous and Black/African at the bottom. That is not a coincidence, but is a result of the caste system set up by the European Capitalist Elites. I doubt the elite in Brazil have a problem identifying who is Black. It seems to be a situation of many people trying to escape their Africaness, if only in description, even though it is not socially a realistic option(the oppression and exploitation remains). I understand that there may be a more subtle racial tone in many places compared to the U.S., but the fact that one has other ethnic/racial heritages may effect the DNA but doesn't effect the historical, economic, and social
circumstances to the point of the African heritage not being the prime determining factor of ones life circumstances (if phenotypically visible, and I am talking about the masses of people here) Colorism does of course also exist, and those of lighter hues tend to have priveledges in the capitalist caste system...but they are still oppressed and exploited because of their African heritage...So what's the point of "re-labelling" your/ourselves as others(A.K.A. not Black/African)?...Our reality is that of one.

"Well, if this virtual village doen't acept whites or mixed ones in duscussions and works is other point."

Who said that this virtual village doesn't? I'll name names. I almost always like what Iyah 360 has to say.

"I come here with respect, with doubts and questions and looking forward to learn...

Don't we all?

But if people here are useless in the point that can't reason (in a reasoning forum) and have to be agressive with vulgar vocabulary shows to me the end of the arguments of people who don't really have much to say but to play victims and try to be ofensive constructing nothing but an intelectual prison.

Sorry but human oppression and exploitation makes some of us agressive. If we all aren't angry about the exploitation and oppression of the African(at home and abroad) masses, and the exploitation of the masses of humanity in general, something is wrong!

"reason over the arguments, but to resume things trying to insult me, saying i'm a assinin and with no more arguments at all...."

We said what you said was assinine...not that you were an ass. I thoroughly explained why I thought what you said was assinine. I've said assinine things too. This is an idiological debate, don't take it personally. But we do have to call it when we see it. If I said somethng assinine I would hope someone would feel free to tell me. I welcome the criticism, that's a good way to learn...

"you really look like helpless people an I can see more clear now why you suffer and feel exploited."

NOW YOU HAVE LOST ME!!! We are helpless? We feel exploited? Are you seriousely saying exploitation and oppression are in the POEPLE'S minds? Look around man. The PEOPLE are suffering! OUR PEOPLE are suffering!(That means your people too unless you are suffering from an us/them mentality) How can you say exploitation is a feeling? It is a reality for the majority of the planets population! NOBODY is helpless! What logic are you using to say such things? Please explain...

"I'm sorry you are miserable, arrogant and incapable of reasoning out of your dogmas."

Isn't this statement in direct contradiction with what you were just complaining about what you thought others were doing?

"Just put an anouncement on the main page saying that non-blac people are not acepted and people should come here just to learn to repeat synthetic ideas and not to develop reasoning over all different aspects of a point and to be able to make a bigger picture using reason and logic and not passion and revolt."

Everyone is welcome here... But don't expect things said not to be challenged when others don't agree with you. Revolutionaries revolt. I have passion for my PEOPLE. These are two possitives in my eyes. There are plently of non-African/Black people on this site who don't seem to be upset about discussing reality. I still haven't figured out what you are upset about besides the assinine comment) Who is repeating synthetic ideas? Why aren't you just reasoning and using logic with the ideas presented? Please explain what has been said(ideologically) that is bothering you so much...

"Still I believe there are serious people here and htat's why I still come here, as a whole I respect the place, but i'm sorry for the idiots. If I thought this wasn't a place to reason and grow why would I come here? I have moere to do then to try to be a distractor of a forum in a site in the internet."

Please explain what you think that was said that was idiotic, or better yet, who the idiots are? You want to reason supposedly but you aren't giving any ideas...Please contradict the supposed idiotic statements with some reasoning and logic instead of all this name calling.

[gman]

Mandingo:
You surprising me with these statements man. How much you really reason with Congo Nya? Cos I know you could never have said such things to them, at least not Juliana and Anthony, it would have been pure fiya! Humble yourself and come again. P.S. check your messages, I gave you the idrens' numbers if you want to link them.
Oh and to briefly address a couple of things you said, you're either for amerikkka or against them, if you're Rasta then you're against them period, if you're not against them then you're for them and you're not Rasta. (Of course I'm not talking about the individual people in amerikkka).
And as for England and Ethiopia (this is both to you and Oshun_Auset): England only finally agreed to help Ethiopia when it was in England's interest to do so (when the Axis started messing with British "possessions"); and who else was His Majesty supposed to ask for help? Also he asked for help from the League of Nations, not specifically England.

[iyah360]

it is probably true that England started to help Ethiopia(Abyssinia) when it was messing with it's interests - but there is the little known fact that Abyssinia had many contacts with Europe centuries past through the Knights Templars and other military orders. I would not doubt that fraternal bonds played some role in Abyssinia's place in this conflict.

Here is a link for starters:

http://sellassie.ourfamily.com/history/templars.html

[Ras Mandingo]

I have appreciated your post Oshun_Auset, many thanks!!!

Let me see if I can make myself more clear:

I just dont think that the problem is whites x blacks, as you have pointed and I agree that the point is Europeans x africans, which is different from the beggining of this reasoning (the whites that cause the problem).

Still, I think that the problem is not even race, but a kind of mentality, imposed politics and or economy which I disagree to relate it to race but to people, so even if i'm not in favor of the american government I can't say i'm against europeans or whites (making generalizations) I see "whites" struggling for people's points and blacks defending colonialism.

All I wanted to point in this reasoning how I find nonsense to say that whites are the problem ( and I'm also making my homework checking history). the point is how to go over it.

Cuba was mentioned before in this reasoning as an example of revolution agains colonialism, and it was mainly a "white" revolution done bu two middle class men (che guevara - the argentinian doctor) and Fidel - who came from an elite family of cuba.

To define this reasoning in whites x blacks is too simplistic to me.

In brasil, people like the musician Gilberto Gil who know is minister of culture and others like pelé, just reminds me how no one remembers that they are "black" (in a pejorative sense), so this is relativity again, the africans in brazil who manage to make the money just go up socially and impose themselves...the problem that I see is the lack of examples or models of how this rich african should be and act, which reflects, to me, the need for cultural reference.

Anyway,Oshun, Many thanks for your level of reasoning and respect and let's keep reasoning as long as we feel we can grow together with that.

Blessings,

Mandingo.

[Bantu_Kelani]

I'm a mixed person with hispanic, indian ans black origins and I look like a brown arab.

You are a mixed African? Since when have you been appointed yourself a "multiracial" Black man? I recall you said on this baord being of American Indian and European heritage. You never spoke of yourself as being "multiracial" white mixed with Black or say anything about your African/Black heritage. Why? I think because in actuality you are probably a lot more non-Black than Black. It is really strange you never claimed your "Blackness" before..

reason over the arguments, but to resume things trying to insult me, saying i'm a assinin and with no more arguments at all....

Asinine means "silly". It is not profanity or a derogatory word. There is no English dictionary in Brazil? Stop whining.

you really look like helpless people an I can see more clear now why you suffer and feel exploited.

I am sure you mean well for us Black folks in your heart when you say insulting things like that. For once you speak your mind honestly. I commend you for that.

You actually try to cry "racism" on this site? I mean, how nut is that? There are many fellow white members whom we respect Rootsie, Tracy, Iyah360 to name a few. So, how can you come here lying about this community despite all what you have seen in here? See people like you make me laugh, or make me sad actually. I see how you continue to spew emotional rhetoric to argue. You didn't know any brothers and sisters who can LOGICALLY challenge your beliefs and opinions, so your feelings are hurt. I however suggest you to contine debate radical Black Nationalists like Oshun-Auset and me in this very website or in real life to grow intellectually or in wisdom. Believe me, the lack of resistance produces weakness over time. This is the universal law of nature and humankind, plain and simple! You have been a member of this message board for a while now you should know that.

No one said that every white people couldn't talk about Black issues. We all have ideas or opinions, but when it's time for you to argue your positions, you should be ready to meet concurrence or dissent on these forums because most Blacks here refuse to have a lackey mentality. We have a right to be who we are as we are and talk honestly about our own reality! How can you claim to wanting fix our problems without wanting to talk about and not do anything to address those problems? Makes it look like you are more concerned with an "assimilationist" ideology for Blacks, which never gave us any power, over helpful solutions. As the saying goes, you Judge a tree by its fruit! You obviously have a romantic and naive view. I judge you by that. So, spare us this "humanist" image you are trying to pawn off. Me and other Black Nationalists here would have believed you a long time ago if it was not for the fact that you never have a racial agenda for Blacks.

The numerous incidents I read daily from many different news sources indicate that the social landscape the world over is racist as ever established and controlled by Europeans and Euro-American Colonization and neo-colonization since the 1500's! That is serious denial when with all what you read too, all what you see Black people experience EVERYDAY you still believe we are "helpless dithering idiots" for not shutting up, accepting our fate and complaining. How dare you to say such asinine (nonsense) things? Your attitude has always shocked me because by your conduct you are doing more damage than helping Blacks you claim to care.

Your emotional release type of people are people who just don't like to argue the hell we Black folks have been through back in our very inimitable not Black but White global supremacy experience, saying that "race" is a completely fictious idea, closing your eyes, plugging your ears, and never ever talking about white racism anymore thinking that it will simply go away and we all will live happily ever after. Your way of tackling racial problems is naïve and incompetent. It is taking away attention the evil we Blacks go through, our exploitation, abuse and humiliation in focus. Any sane Black Afrocentric person reading you would be appalled.


B.K

[Ras Mandingo]

Greetings Gman,

Are you still in Brazil ?

I'm sorry but I haven't recieved the contact that you sent me, if you could do it by e-mail I would love (rasmandingo@reef.net).

Now, I have reasoned mainly with André, Sherwin, Lyson and Bongo, eventhough I have also reasoned a few times with Simba and Juliana.

We had like 4 months together and was great.

I have reasoned this all with them. It was just great and there was much fire going on.

Juliana and sherwin at first didn't want me around as I was not "full black" and as I used to work in a state company distributor of natural gas, as a journalist to make my living. I just keept respectfully forwarding my perceptions, listening to learn their own and just letting them realize how autentic was my desire to come together and reason.

I insist that the problem is not whites but a certainly dominant mentality that happens to be a weapon of european governments, but I can't forget how a lot of europeans were (and are still) fighting against the injsutices in their own land. And I found good reception to this idea among some of them.

I remember once reasoning with them about the race reasoning so commom in this board and I got as an answer from them, when asking how they felt about whites in rastafari that "Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior...." and we know the rest.

Again all the respect to you Gman and I hope we can meet if you are still in Brazil.

Mandingo

[Ras Mandingo]

Give thanks for the link Iyah360!!!

Of course governments have first interests and lastly friends, but it's also true that alliances are done and bonds raise from that.

What country can survive today alone

All the blessings,

Mandingo

[Ras Mandingo]

Hey Bantu,

This time I have to say that I loved you response. Many thanks for that!!!

Now, answers

I remember mentining my family roots before and from my memory I mentioned I had this mixed origin. Mother's family - blacks and arabs. Father's side - Spanish;portuguese, Indians....

Anyway, that's not the most important thing in this reasoning

I'm not saying that racism is an ilusion and questioning the generalization that all whites are racists even if they don't realize that. It can be the majority but it seems a problem to have absolutist perceptions of reality...even strategically speaking.

I'm not here to be a distractor to anything, but rather to contribute (why would I spend my time here then )

I'm not getting personal, I just really disagree that whites are the one who cause the problems....as there are yellows and blacks creating plenty problems as well.

I just want to reason and grow, not to explode, to destroy anything, but to develop and change perceptions and realities in the slowlly but surelly process of going out of the dark.

And strategically speaking, it's not necessary to be against somenthing if you are not in favor, check colonialistic strategies and you will see what I mean. Better to learn with this all and learn the oriental strategy from the martial arts who teach us to use the enemies' force against itself in a gentle and cool way...no need to use force, you see what I mean!!!

And I don't see we going anywhere just shouting down babylon and evil capitalist system.

There's a book which we can use a lot to learn new strategies to face this war, it's called the story of the capitalism (I don't remember now the author's name). By learning the oponent's mentality we can learn how to deal with it then.

Blessings and let's keep on the reasoning.

With respect,

Mandingo

[Bantu_Kelani]

I'm not saying that racism is an ilusion and questioning the generalization that all whites are racists even if they don't realize that. It can be the majority but it seems a problem to have absolutist perceptions of reality...even strategically speaking.

You mentioned African states collaborating with neo-colonial powers like the United States, France, and Britain etc. They do so because they have no political rights. They follow their instructions from the Bushmen in Paris, London or the Whitehouse who continues to look at as us Blacks as slaves. The Western powers always interfere with the social and political development of third world countries. I am sure that the only justification that they give to themselves is that "these people will never develop a stable democratic system. They will always be ruled by dictators, so it might as well be our dictators, our puppets". It's time for you to face this fact. In Brazil, the US or European countries the house Negroes, the Blacks who continue to betray their own people in favor of recognition from their masters, have no freedom either. They are enslaved. A conscious Afrocentrist person cannot be in denial that primarily racists white men who are in positions of great material powers control the world. And even if the majority of White folks of today are not responsible for the institutions of oppression, there still are too much privilege on the White/Caucasian side of things, and too much oppression on the Black/African side to now be able to talk or think about a "colorblind" society.

Five hundred years of slavery, colonialism, oppression and stagnation of the Black race in Brazil is the same as the five hundred years of slavery, colonialism, oppression and stagnation of Blacks in the rest of American Continent, the Caribbean islands, and in Motherland Africa. We have the same root problem. White men are the common enemy of all of us. White imperialists are ONLY disliked because of beliefs and their domestic and foreign policy that violate the dignity and rights of dark-skinned people in every parts of the world, not because of their "race".

B.K

[Ras Mandingo]

I'm appreciating this reasoning Bantu, give thanks!!!

I'm not talking about a colorblind society, I'm talking about the natural necessity for the societies to relate find ways of cooperating or at least coexist in the same world.

For me, the complaining over colonialism, neo-liberalism and imperialism as evil systems is the obvious part of this reasoning. What is it beyond it

There is always this conflict between realistics and idealistics...I wonder why HIM used to send ethiopians to the western countries to learn about their "modern technology" and to learn about anythhing tha could be useful to the best of the country interest.

Don't get me wrong, I know what you are talking about but how are we going to respond to this historical facts is ohter thing.

Even we here, using this US army technology, to learn, contribute, share and debate over the world historical events, you see.

There's good and bad in everyhting and usually the problem is in we that don't learn how to use the tools around us and prefer to keep crying the victims and staying there.


So I'm looking for a realistic reasoning over this historical facts avoiding dogmas and rixid perceptions.

Check the water, it doesn't have a rigid form but it never looses it's essence regardless of the recipient it is contained.

How are we going to flow in this reality we deal with, over the speculations and idealisms

With respect,

Mandingo

[Bantu_Kelani]

For me, the complaining over colonialism, neo-liberalism and imperialism as evil systems is the obvious part of this reasoning. What is it beyond it

There's good and bad in everyhting and usually the problem is in we that don't learn how to use the tools around us and prefer to keep crying the victims and staying there.


So I'm looking for a realistic reasoning over this historical facts avoiding dogmas and rixid perceptions.

Racism is not historical. It is not only an occurrence of the past, it still exists today! It practiced openly by the majority of the Caucasian populace and encouraged by many businesses and political sectors in your country and in the rest of the world. Just because you are not the subject of racism does not mean that it is "historical".  So, what if we Black people acknowledge the lynching, killings, the imprisonments, the rapes, the miseducation and the way racism has been institutionalized in politics, government and economics...does that still make us having a "victim mentality"? If bitterness is our reality, should we remain delusional just to be positive? Personally, I have faced a lot of racism in my life to just be a quiet Negresse in order to be more pleasant to you or others. Acknowledging racism, being beaten by it and complaining about it doesn't make me a whiner or an indolent person. Despite me being strong and efforts, how am I supposed to plan a successful future for my people and me if Caucasians have shifted all the energies and resources from Blacks to the Caucasians, which enrich the Caucasians and impoverish Black people? Sure, the Jews can talk about the Holocaust and how they have been affected by it and how Israel is reparation for that tragedy. Hell, they can even get economic reparations for it too. But not us! We Blacks need to suck it up and stop complaining. Kind of hypocrite, don't you think?

IMO all this racial discrimination will end when balance between the races is established. This occurs when those wronged feel that they have been sufficiently compensated in whatever way that is consequential to them, and when those that have subjugated others, no longer do so!

B.K