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25908 Posts in 9964 Topics by 982 Members Latest Member: - Ferguson Most online today: 58 (July 03, 2005, 06:25:30 PM)
+  Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum
|-+  SCIENCE, SOCIOLOGY, RELIGION
| |-+  Science and Technology (Moderators: Tyehimba, leslie)
| | |-+  Does God exists
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Author Topic: Does God exists  (Read 55218 times)
Lilbit
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« on: February 21, 2006, 06:17:46 PM »

What scientific proof do we have of God's existence? The UNIVERSE CAME FROM MATTER. MATTER CANNOT BE CREATED OR DESTROYED.
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natural blacks
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Blackheart Man


« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2006, 09:08:49 PM »

then let's call "matter", god then...
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History has shown that it is the inaction of those who could’ve acted; the indifference of those who should’ve known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most that has made it possible for evil to triumph. - EMPEROR HAILE SELASSIE I
preach
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Roots


« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2006, 12:22:16 AM »

If there is a god then matter can be created and destroyed.
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love
mwanaafrika
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2006, 06:21:12 AM »


Man make religion, Religion does not make man.

Science can not prove the existence of God.

More over no religion has proved the existence of God. It remains a mistery and a big contraversy.
Religion came about becouse of man's imagination, fear of his own mind of that something greater than us exists and faith in that greater something which came to be known as God. 

The christian religion talks about the creation of only two peolpe, Adam & Eve. Then how is it that we got so many races ? How is it possible that these two people could have populated the Earth with so many Races ?
It also talk about noah's ark when the all world was flooded and only those peolpe and animals in the boat/ark survived. Now if this Ark was on a mountain somewhere  between Middle east and Afrika and only Jews or Noah's people were in that ark, how come we still have many races ? How did the indiginous people of the all continent of America got there ?
I don't know much about other Religions but they dont talk about two people created 1st.

What i think is that religion is all about faith in a superior being plus a man made doctrine or rules to follow in practicing that particular religion. My rich Afrikan culture has/had the God of our ancestors, fertility God, rain God e.t.c. just like the Greeks had their Gods- Zeaus, Appolo e.t.c. The common thing in all these beliefs, be it Ancient Afrikan, Greek or present day Islam, Christianity, Afrikanist e.t.c is faith in a superior being.   

So does God exists ? well i think thats personal, that is, its how much one imagines, believes, fears and applys faith to the known facts, history and mistery of this world.     


Aluta kontinua !!

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natural blacks
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Blackheart Man


« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2006, 06:32:32 AM »

why can't matter be "god"? the indestructible, unconcievable, all mighty matter...

i feel we get confused with "definitions" and labels sumtimes, instead of thinking in terms of "definition", let's think what the word is supposedly defining. what does "god" mean to u? personally i only use the word "god" for ease fo conversation and iverstanding. but is it really necessary for me to try to prove to the next person that there is no "god"...when i myself belief that there was a start to all creation...wat started it? how did it start? because whenever i try to disprove god's existence, i find i come up with the same thing only defining it in a somewhat unusual manner. maybe god is relative to personal consciousness Undecided

RASTAFARI
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History has shown that it is the inaction of those who could’ve acted; the indifference of those who should’ve known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most that has made it possible for evil to triumph. - EMPEROR HAILE SELASSIE I
preach
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Roots


« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2006, 11:47:17 AM »

Wonderful statement natural blacks.


God is man idealized.
LeRoi Jones, Home:Social Essays,1966
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love
Bennu Ausar
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2006, 12:52:35 PM »

"What would be your conclusion if you traveled to a distant uninhabited planet and found a stack of bricks, exactly alike in size and weight, some set up according to a geometric series, while another group was arranged to make the letters of the alphabet? Would you not conclude that some intelligent being got there before you and was responsible for the arrangement?"  -- 'Not Out of Greece', Ra Un Nefer Amen

This quote by Ra Un Nefer Amen is relevant because it provides a convenient entry point into an age old debate that too often relys on flawed thinking that passes for science. Science does indeed prove the existence of God. First of all, the word "science" comes from the latin 'scire' which means "to know". Further, the word "religion" is a compound word made up of 're' (meaning 'back' or 'again') and 'ligion' which comes from the latin 'ligare' (meaning "to tie" or "bind"), but it also associated with the Greek 'legein' (meaning 'legal', 'law', or "that which is 'logical'"). So, "religion", which literally means "to bind back" (to God) is also, based on the etymology of the word, indicating that it is logical, meaning that it is not opposed to science. This is why there is no separation of science and religion in traditional African religions.

As far as the quote above is concerned, it shows that science does indeed prove the existence of God! Let's examine it closely... most scientists accept the idea that the creation of the universe began from a so-called "big bang", i.e., certain gases exploded under specific conditions which initiated the process of the elements forming. Thses eventually came together by random chance to form molecules and eventually life. This life would over time exhibit intelligence and ultimately evolve into the diversity of living organisms we know in the world today. This theory is a weak attempt at expaining the beginnings of the universe at best. No self-respecting scientist should seriously consider it given the fact that it raises more questions than it answers. E.g., 1) Where did the gases come from that were "big-banged"? Given these random chance events, why aren't scientists finding evidence of life on other planets, other galaxies, etc.? The answer is simple, life did not begin from some random event called the "big-bang". Life did not develop intelligence, but rather the Intelligence ordered and devloped life! From the smallest known quantity to the most developed mental and physical specimen or the most complex galaxy and universe, an Intelligence we call God created it. And that God created it according to strict scientific and mathematical principles. We see evidence of that "stack of bricks" mentioned by Ra Un Nefer Amen when we look at the periodic table of elements. Get out your high school and college Chemistry books and it is there before your very eyes. You can see that though each element is different, each follow a specific pattern. So much so, that scientists have been able to predict elements not yet discovered. Not only that, the distribution of elements in the chart follow the same pattern as the distribution of ions within each element. This strict organization of the atoms is evidence that an Intelligence was at the beginning of creation and that it was not just some random chance event. We also see these and other patterns manifested and repeated throughout nature, i.e., the Fibonacci number series continously comes up when examining nature. If the Earth moved only slightly toward or away from the Sun, all life would be destroyed. The same is true for the Moon. So the entire creation is arranged to support our existence. Alter the balance that exists if you dare and the accept your fate.
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preach
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Roots


« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2006, 07:50:35 PM »

Wonderful reasoning.
But where is she?
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love
Bennu Ausar
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2006, 08:09:52 PM »

If i am understanding the question correctly, then God is present everywhere. Thus, omni-present. The one Supreme Being that is the source of all, is at the core of every atom. It exercised It's Will and differentiated It's Consciousness into a myriad of forms that comes in and as the world. Thus, the source of unity and interdependence in the world.

In the ancient khametic text, The Book of Knowing the Creations of Ra, it states: "I am he who came into being in the form of the infinite power of manifestation (Khepera). I became the creator of what came into being. After my coming into being, many were the things which came into being, coming forth from my mouth. Not existed heaven, not existed earth, not had been created the things of the earth, and creeping things in that place. I raised them out of Nu, from the state of inactivity. Not found I a place to stand wherein. I radiated words of power with my will. I laid a foundation in the law (Maat)...  I was alone, for not had I spit out Shu [Yang], not had I emitted Tefnut [Yin]. Not existed another who worked with me. I made a foundation by means of my will, and there came into being the multitude of things..."

We see God moving everyday. It's just that in the present technological age of movie special effects and so forth, we expect to see people walking on water or turning water into wine. Look for God the next time an ant or a bee crosses your path. In the intracate design of a flower petal or the birth of a newborn infant. God is everywhere, including within each of us. But we must awaken to the fact that we cannot manifest the greatness of God on earth until we elevate our consciousness to allow God to come into the world thru us. We must climb the Tree of Life and recognize that which is our true Self.

Peace...
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gman
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AfricaSpeaks


« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2006, 10:01:09 AM »

Depends on your definition of God.
I know JAH is real.
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melaninmagic
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 04:23:16 AM »

Hello everybody Smiley

Science may not be able to supply wholesome answers that prove of God's existence. This in no way represents the successes of the natural sciences, but rather, highlights its inadequacies. In my research I have discovered that the deeper one probes into the quantum mechanical realm of the fundamental particle (building blocks of all matter), the more intelligent one finds their design, thus giving light to an entirely new class of questions. The realizations I have made thus far have forced me to go full circle in my reasoning, and as a result, I cannot help but conclude that there must be some intelligent purpose behind this creation. Hence the reason for this post. My reasonings below may seem a little long-winded, but just bear with me and be patient Smiley

Here is what the scientific community has to say; Contrary to popular belief, science (more precisely Physics) has NEVER disproved or proved the existence of God. More specifically, the uniform consensus amongst western empirical scientists is that due to scientific advances, the need for a supernatural explanation behind physical events becomes less important, and also, that any so-called 'supernatural' event MUST have an explanation within the realm of physics for that event to have any validity. One also needs to bear in mind that the goal of using Physics to solve the exact nature of the universe CAN NEVER be realized. Instead, it is only possible to construct representative models of observed events up to some finite accuracy by observing these events and their interactions in finite detail. The fine structure in which we are able to resolve an event is solely dependent on our competence at constructing the right tools, which, at its most basic, is dependent on nothing more than our physical biological composition. Now consider the case of fundamental particle physics.

As the models constructed here are only as accurate as ones' ability to observe, there is simply NO physical experiment in the world that can ever come close to reproducing a given fundamental interaction with 100% accuracy. Consider now, that these fundamental particle interactions directly govern how the world behaves on the macroscopic realm. It is implied then, that due to the severe restrictions placed on how accurately one can measure a given event, physics is only capable of explaining the macroscopic world to some very limited degree of accuracy, albeit adequate for everyday purposes where the true picture is not exactly necessary to justify reasoning.

Despite this, as a science Physics has been able to flourish while being the only field in its class with the ability to explain to some degree HOW events work while having absolutely no explanation for WHY these same events behave the way they do! Moreover, it professes that asking why events are the way they are is a non-scientific and hence irrelevant question. To answer the question as to why objects behave the way they do, the scope of the discussion can no longer be restricted to the subject of Physics. Instead, one must borrow foreign concepts from other fields of research that, when isolated to only those fields, would be constituted as fundamental. These external areas include theology and philosophy. In the eyes of an empirical physicist, however, to include these concepts would be considered, 'Not good physics'. This has been the stance taken by western science since its inception because, from this perspective, these decidedly unrelated external sciences introduce variables to Physics that are impossible to measure quantitatively. From the western view point, if it is proven that a variable absolutely cannot be measured, then it is also not possible to find a connection between that variable and an event under scientific study and hence, one concludes, that that any physical connection between that hidden variable and the event under scrutiny, need not be considered. Note here that it was not, nor can ever be argued that there IS NO connection, only that the connection NEED NOT BE CONSIDERED! Despite it's obvious flawed logic, this reasoning alone has been used to justify the non-existence of God and the irrelevance of the spiritual, since there is no observable connection between either and the physical world. Now clearly, the restrictions placed on our ability to measure the possible God-connection is not a consequence of the Supremes' absence, but in our ability as human beings to feel his presence externally, and measure the spiritual influences quantitatively. In no uncertain terms, it is our own lack of spirituality that causes us not to see. But, then, there are those of us that do profess to be enlightened. How can we claim to feel Gods' presence with 100% faith when there isn't a single external experiment in existance that enables us magnify this presence stronger? The answer is that it can only be done from the INSIDE of our being, and once accomplished, as humans made in God's image, we will naturally radiate this energy outwardly. Therein lies the physical proof of God that we seek. The true journey starts on the inside.

As long as the scientific community as a whole remains ignorant to the other half of this true story, there will always be war.

At this time, I would invite you to read an earlier post of mine; "Finding God Within & with-out a glass of water" (General Forum)


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natural blacks
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 09:21:49 AM »

good thinking
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History has shown that it is the inaction of those who could’ve acted; the indifference of those who should’ve known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most that has made it possible for evil to triumph. - EMPEROR HAILE SELASSIE I
ooggooles
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I am the living incarnation of my ancestors


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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2006, 04:55:42 PM »

Can science prove that water is wet? You know that water is wet because you know what wet is. Try explaining what wet is without using wet or soaked or any other term that refers to the cause or effect of water or wet. You either know what wet is or you don't. Science can measure the amount of water or the weight of water ect., but try proving wet. When it comes to certain things science is an idiot.
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Still_an_Empress
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2006, 03:48:07 PM »

Look at the world around you, everything has a inventor/creator. 
Someone invented/created the pen, the keyboard, the computer, why not you?
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chiefblackbear
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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2006, 11:41:14 AM »

HOTEP BENNU AUSAR

Very logical point of view

YOU SAID: But we must awaken to the fact that we cannot manifest the greatness of God on earth until we elevate our consciousness to allow God to come into the world thru us

Does this include WHITES and ASIANS and MIXED RACES?
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